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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
109
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Posted - 2014.10.28 05:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Clipped some junk from quote but left relevant bits:
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
- When taking objectives NEVER assume the area is clear
- Check all corners
- Flank
- Predict enemy movements
- If you're behind the lines keep your guard up because a scout, sniper, HAV, Dropship or Heavy in an LAV can attack you faster than you can react
Point 1: Whether you assume the area is clear or not, at some point you need to try and hack the objective, then you die to a scout because the scout knows you are there, what direction you are facing, and that you are easy pickings.
Point 2: When you check one corner, you are not currently checking 3 other corners, or any of the entrances to the area you are in (in other words, looking in one direction guarantees a scout can exploit all the directions you arent looking).
Point 3: You cannot flank something you are entirely unaware of, you will never see the dangerous scouts until they are up your ass.
Point 4: Yes, Dust is dangerous.
DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Letting your guard down and assuming you always have a full sitrep will be your downfall, whether it comes at the knives of a scout is irrelevant.
Its not about letting your guard down. Scouts have a big speed advantage, can see you on tacnet, cant be seen on tacnet, and sometimes cant even be seen when they are standing right in front of you, you are going to be stuck using at best an HMG, and they have an assortment of close range weapons that can 2-3 shot anyone, or long range weapons that can pick you to death, and they can use these weapons to their best advantage because they have a huge advantage in intel. The only way to gain parity is to use a scout yourself, but even that doesnt actually COUNTER the scout, because there IS NO COUNTER.
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
109
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Posted - 2014.10.28 07:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:OP is an idiot and sales numbers show there is an average 40k suit sales more for scout then the next best suit (assault) THAT should tell you something about how OP scouts are and the problem is snowballing because peopel wanna be OP or want to fight fire with fire since there is NO COUNTER (except exclusively level 5 GAL logi with level 5 Focused active scanners[even tho active scanners are totally broken and useless atm]) http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php(right hand dropdown menu -> dropsuits) ps. the only COUNTER to scouts is MOAR SCOUTS! this being said that is why dust has become **** latly its just gank or be ganked, not gunbattles anymore unelss its scouts bullet weaving a heavy/medium suit to kill them form ANY RANGE with a RAIL RIFLE
Just a quick PSA, even Gal Logi scans cannot reveal scouts if they are fitted properly. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
113
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Posted - 2014.10.28 19:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote: Its not about letting your guard down. Scouts have a big speed advantage, can see you on tacnet, cant be seen on tacnet, and sometimes cant even be seen when they are standing right in front of you, you are going to be stuck using at best an HMG, and they have an assortment of close range weapons that can 2-3 shot anyone, or long range weapons that can pick you to death, and they can use these weapons to their best advantage because they have a huge advantage in intel. The only way to gain parity is to use a scout yourself, but even that doesnt actually COUNTER the scout, because there IS NO COUNTER.
- You cannot see what the s in front of you? Take your view off the tiny map and open your eyes my friend, I promise that looking around is the best way of predicting where people are going to be.
- Carry a good sidearm for CQC engagements if you're unsure your primary is good enough. I would recommend the Bolt Pistol and Especially the Ion Pistol. The Breach or Assault Scrambler pistols are also good if you're going to make your shots count.
- If you believe that you have already lost lost then you have. I think; therefore I am.
Yeah, thats right, the cloak visual effect is inconsistent based on lighting and background and sometimes people will be invisible right in front of you. I've seen some stuff. Or rather, I haven't seen some stuff, even though I knew exactly where they were.
There have been instances where I have started firing at a visible scout and he cloaked and just straight up disappeared in front of my sights, only to appear behind me 3 seconds later.
There was an instance where I have turned around, being pretty much positive a scout that I was engaging was following my path, I turn around, and see NOTHING, I shoot in the general direction and score a couple of hits and the scout got scared and ran off, the entire time he was 100% invisible to me. The only reason I knew for sure he was there was a flash of red on my reticle while I was shooting and a couple of hit markers.
Other times the cloak effect is very obvious and easy to see.
If you havent noticed this kind of stuff then you are the one who probably needs to open his eyes.
I carry a good sidearm. But you dont understand what Im saying. If the scout knows where you are, he can adjust his position and take advantage of his weapon's advantages regardless of what weapon he is using. You dont get to determine the terms of any fights at any time. This alone is a massive advantage, but then its combined with much better speed, and much better stealth, with comparable damage from their weapon that you have. Its just not balanced.
And your last point is just some complete bs. The confidence of a person or military force is not some magical key to victory. In fact confidence is frequently the cause of military defeats, especially when the opposing force has some sort of advantage in intelligence, mobility, and stealth, which sounds alot like something I've been talked about recently... hmm what could it be. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
114
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Posted - 2014.10.29 01:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Your frames are probably dropping severely and is probably making it harder to fight fast moving targets. It happens to me too when I play late at night. I get paired against people in Asia and Europe so my connection is totally useless and I end up getting out strafed by heavies. If I play at other times of the day my connection is top notch.
Whatever man.
DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Stealth and speed might be important factors, but weapon damage and HP are also important. There is of course good strategy and decent gun game. A suit won't give you either.
Except that the scout suit does in fact give you huge advantages to everything you listed.
Weapon damage: Scouts stealthy nature in this game makes it trivial to deliver some of the most damaging weaponry in the game: nova knives and shotguns, a while back I remember both of these weapons were complete trash, thats because getting close to people in this game WAS not an easy task. With the scout it now is. Im not saying the weapons should be trash, but they need to dial it back a bit on this stuff so people have a chance.
HP: Once again assuming you arent brick tanking (which I think is a stupid fitting choice, but does provide you with HP), yes, your HP is lower, but I've said it before and Ill say it again here: If you are trading HP for a better type of survivability, it is not a sacrifice at all, but an investment. An investment with massive returns.
Good Strategy: It is far easier to have a good strategy when you have a ton of information about the situation, such as, distance to target, orientation of target, elevation of target, target's suit type, target's level of agitation, position of targets friends are their orientation, yadda yadda. The scout gets all of these if he is running halfway decent scans. Also the scout is frequently invisible to the enemy, which makes it more difficult for them to have a good strategy.
Gun game: At first glance, this might seem like something that is independent of suit, but it really isnt. It is dramatically harder to hit a scout when they are strafe dancing, thus requiring people trying to hit scouts to actually have a better gun game. This is on top of the fact that a good scout will not let the enemy's gun game even be a factor, the scout's enemy will be dead before they have a chance to bring their weapon to bear in the first place.
DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Confidence is not a synonym for being cocky. Believing you can win is different from believing you should win. You need to be able to believe in yourself to succeed. Believing you will win always will be your downfall. Not believing in your personal ability means that you have no chance of succeeding.
By the way, a high morale is important in war and history shows that those who lose morale also lose the war.
Kay
I'm really not sure why people defend this ****. This is a class that cannot be seen, one or two shots people frequently, can see everything, and can move faster than everything. This is not balanced. I don't really have a comprehensive answer, but what we have now is just not right. It needs to be fixed, not defended to the death. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
116
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Posted - 2014.10.29 15:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:TechMechMeds wrote:Well actually, here I am again taking one in the nerf department for balance because my alt has proto Amarr scout and iv scouted since beta, you know, when scouting required skill so not everyone abused it.
It gets abused mate, like anything decent in any game.
I'm not bothered about a nerf, you are a proper scout so what are you worried about that has you attempting to keep them the way they are?.
Are you sure that its not YOU who won't adapt?.
The real scouts will be fine with a nerf so long as its done properly. The scout capability to be abused is the issue and the majority of 'scouts' are just assaults that are using all the trimmings to be uber assault. I'm not a scout. Therefore, your point is invalid. Then that makes your whole point of view completely invalid then and nothing but an inadvertent troll. Well done lol. I'm talking from the perspective of someone who fights scouts not someone who is a scout. You don't need to be the thing you're fighting to be able to say how to counter it. You don't need to be a scout to know how to fight scouts. Your lack of comprehension to this is disturbing.
Maybe you should try it, because I am a scout and its absurd how many advantages the suit gives you. When Im running my scout suit, nothing threatens me except for scouts and nothing can stop me except for big blobs of proto heavy/logi suits and other scouts. Every engagement is my choice unless its another scout suit. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
122
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Posted - 2014.10.29 19:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:TechMechMeds wrote: Well if I cared that much, then I'd have read it all. Its pretty disturbing that you'd think that and yet not even have the means to actually run it yourself. You are not unique in thinking that just because you can Bash newbs, that your point holds any weight at all......there's many like you.
The fact that you don't have a proto scout makes your point invalid vs the fact I can proto everything across 3 chars in the game, so I actually know exactly how easily they can be abused.
Your thread is nothing but a subtle e peen stroke anyway. You stated yourself that you don't scout, well I do and have done since beta.........
I've played multiple roles since closed beta, except that since the last suit SP reset I have poured all my excess SP into assaults. In that time I spent countless setions experimenting with tanked scouts (which everyone called me crazy for doing, but I made it work), made accurate figures of how stealth mods and range amplifiers actually affected our base stats and also calculated the effect of Kinetic Catalyzers on base speed in accordance with the skill and stacking penalty.If it assures you any more, I have played around with all of the new militia level scouts. I generally find myself in constant skirmishes across the map so I don't get much use from the Caldari Scout's or Gallante Scout's bonus to Electronic Warfare. I personally prefer the Minmatar's speed and the Amarr Scouts excess speed. Honestly, I would have skilled into the Amarr Scout, but refrained from doing so because I wanted to use the Scrambler Rifle and the Amarr Assault is best for that.
In conclusion I have a lot of experience running scouts and once had a lot of SP tied onto them. Since then I have transitioned to Assault suits which I have ignored for most of my time in Dust.
Alright, so you say that because I use certain methods to counter a certain threat that my points are invalid because only I can effectively use these methods. I don't think it's correct to assume that I am above all other Dust players. Rather, I think most players just simply aren't informed enough to actually know how to counter threats such as flanking, and that they fail to realize what an ambush is: how to avoid an ambush/create one/spot one. My thinking is that if people can break down a threat such as scouts into more specific categories then they will better be able to actually fight against them. That's the point of my original post to inform the players who tend to struggle the most against scouts, while simultaneously denouncing those unwilling to find effective ways to fight threats instead of simply asking CCP to nerf it just so the player base can ask for the next "OP" thing to get nerfed. I predict the next suit on the pallete is the sentinel. You can disagree but I think the Logistics and Assault suits are almost even and yet the heavy is somewhat of an outlier. And honestly facing problems and overcoming them is the best way to get better at this game. Simply choosing to make the challenge easier to meet your current skill level makes the game dull because it lacks challenge.
You're making the big mistake of lumping everyone who wants something done to balance scouts in with people who are just cluelessly refusing to fight them. I do fine in battle, against any suit, but really if you dont understand how a well played scout is basically uncounterable, then you just dont know what you are talking about.
You keep saying scout suits dont make people good, and to a certain point I agree, the problem isnt that scout suits make people good, its that scout suits make good people damn near invincible.
Sometimes stuff is just plain unbalanced, and this is one of those times.
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
122
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Posted - 2014.10.29 19:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote: You're making the big mistake of lumping everyone who wants something done to balance scouts in with people who are just cluelessly refusing to fight them. I do fine in battle, against any suit, but really if you dont understand how a well played scout is basically uncounterable, then you just dont know what you are talking about.
You keep saying scout suits dont make people good, and to a certain point I agree, the problem isnt that scout suits make people good, its that scout suits make good people damn near invincible.
Sometimes stuff is just plain unbalanced, and this is one of those times.
My argument is that people should stop complaining about a very counterable threat and simply counter it using more adequate methods than the ones they are using.
Except that it isnt counterable. There is no counter to an undetectable all-seeing guy who can 2 shot you before you can turn around. The only thing that can stop him from doing that is standing at the end of a long corrider with one exit just staring at the open end. Also hope the cloak graphic doesnt glitch out and make them entirely invisible.
Good luck winning the game doing that.
You can argue all you want that someone should maintain 360 degree perfect situational awareness at all times, but that is some serious bs. Its completely insane to give that as the scout counter while you are also dealing with other enemies and objectives.
I play a scout, and it doesnt matter what someone does, I will get his back. He just wont be able to stop me, no matter how many crazy Ivans he pulls or how careful he is, eventually I will get behind him and take him apart. |
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