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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
306
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Posted - 2014.11.02 07:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
OP, I think you have a well written out and reasoned post.
That being said I can't agree with it pretty much at all. One of the major concerns is that it would eliminate the heavy weakness of being killed at range. If a heavy can put all that damage downrange you will see a situation similar to the return of the RR/Heavy fit that was so popular and so annoying when RRs first came out. Only worse with the extra DPS. The 'fire support' role should not be held by a slow class (fire support requires LOTS of repositioning which makes heavies poor fire support when attacking a point.) PLUS them being sniper bait in that scenario - so they wouldn't be all that useful even then. So you give heavies a role they never had making them annoying -- but bad at said role as far as teamwork is concerned.
We used to have a heavy turn speed cap. And heavies got splattered left and right. I, myself, in my Caldari assault would go toe to toe with them ALL the time and win 80% of the time. They couldn't hit me. And that was before cloak. I shudder to think at how they would fight now. So heavies would be pointless close range. Laser rifles and RRs would be severly infringed where as shotguns and NKs would proliferate even more so than before vs heavies.
Heavies are area defense and control. They always have been -- just change your tactics for taking them out. Limit their spawn ability. (uplink changes are needed ANYWAY.) Take away their ability to drive LaVs. There are other ways to limit heavy spam besides making the suit mess up other suit's jobs+make them easy kills.
That's how I feel anyway. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 00:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
HMG really isn't the highest DPS weapon in the game due to dispersion. It's just pretty high up there.
But the heavy HP thing is a result of their GIANT hitbox (heavies TAKE more damage from incoming fire-- especially the head) and their super slow sidestep speed (they take even MORE damage.)
The huge issue with slayer scouts is that they can sidestep so fast they can actually lag through a hit and take no damage. Heavies are on the other side of that. Near impossible to miss and can actually take damage from shots that missed them.
It's actually pretty easy to focus down a heavy solo provided you aren't trying to go toe to toe. I really don't see the need for a change to the suit. At best I would say change how uplinks work. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
313
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 03:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Imp Smash wrote:HMG really isn't the highest DPS weapon in the game due to dispersion. It's just pretty high up there.
But the heavy HP thing is a result of their GIANT hitbox (heavies TAKE more damage from incoming fire-- especially the head) and their super slow sidestep speed (they take even MORE damage.)
The huge issue with slayer scouts is that they can sidestep so fast they can actually lag through a hit and take no damage. Heavies are on the other side of that. Near impossible to miss and can actually take damage from shots that missed them.
It's actually pretty easy to focus down a heavy solo provided you aren't trying to go toe to toe. I really don't see the need for a change to the suit. At best I would say change how uplinks work. doesn't solve the problem. Even if uplinks are removed or unavailable (odd it does happen) then smart heavies move to the tightest quarters they can and entrench and force you to come to you. This behavior will not change even if uplinks do, and they have the ability to smash their way in and dig in like ticks because the ideal terrain for them (CQC) is right where most enemies want to hold.\ Heavies never should have been CQC kings. that honor should have gone to the gallente assault.
Then I'm sorry we are just going tohave to disagree. I think heavies should be Cqc suits. They are too slow and too easy to hit to do anything except entrench. That's kind of their job.
But really this is all just a way of thinking. Your last comment made it clear -- when you said entrenched CQC should be Gallente Assault. Gallente are the armor rep class. Amarr stack plates which you need for CqC. So it would be them -- not Gallente.
Ah. I see -- you yourself ARE a Gallente. You know -- it appears that you are trying to change the fit the playstyle you want right?
EDIT: On second thought -- you did mention that a lot of parts that ppl want to hold (for example objectives) are CQC. It wouldn't be hard to make half the points in any Obj based match have half low cover points and half high cover points. Then all the suits would have a spot. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
320
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 02:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Imp Smash wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Imp Smash wrote:HMG really isn't the highest DPS weapon in the game due to dispersion. It's just pretty high up there.
But the heavy HP thing is a result of their GIANT hitbox (heavies TAKE more damage from incoming fire-- especially the head) and their super slow sidestep speed (they take even MORE damage.)
The huge issue with slayer scouts is that they can sidestep so fast they can actually lag through a hit and take no damage. Heavies are on the other side of that. Near impossible to miss and can actually take damage from shots that missed them.
It's actually pretty easy to focus down a heavy solo provided you aren't trying to go toe to toe. I really don't see the need for a change to the suit. At best I would say change how uplinks work. doesn't solve the problem. Even if uplinks are removed or unavailable (odd it does happen) then smart heavies move to the tightest quarters they can and entrench and force you to come to you. This behavior will not change even if uplinks do, and they have the ability to smash their way in and dig in like ticks because the ideal terrain for them (CQC) is right where most enemies want to hold.\ Heavies never should have been CQC kings. that honor should have gone to the gallente assault. Then I'm sorry we are just going tohave to disagree. I think heavies should be Cqc suits. They are too slow and too easy to hit to do anything except entrench. That's kind of their job. But really this is all just a way of thinking. Your last comment made it clear -- when you said entrenched CQC should be Gallente Assault. Gallente are the armor rep class. Amarr stack plates which you need for CqC. So it would be them -- not Gallente. Ah. I see -- you yourself ARE a Gallente. You know -- it appears that you are trying to change the fit the playstyle you want right? EDIT: On second thought -- you did mention that a lot of parts that ppl want to hold (for example objectives) are CQC. It wouldn't be hard to make half the points in any Obj based match have half low cover points and half high cover points. Then all the suits would have a spot. gallente are brawlers with high damage cqc weapons. amarr are damage soakers. amarr are better in cqc defense and gallente are better in cqc attack. and I'm not a gall rp loyalist. I tend to lean to caldari sentinels by preference
Well, I have to agree with your assessment of Amarr and Gallente based on that argument. That is totally fair. Although that is with the current meta after all. We only have the Caldari and Minmatar heavy weapons. Once we see what the Amarr and Gallente heavy weapons are (if we see what they are) then that may change. But yes, I completely did not factor in racial weapons in that as I was thinking purely in "Heavy with HMG" terms for the purposes of this conversation. You make a fair point about Gallente and blasters. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
437
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 01:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Powerh8er wrote:The heavy bolter in the warhammer 40k: space marine game is an example of a well designed machine gun. Where the machine gunner moves around in normal mode, but can only hipfire with low ROF and high dispersion, like a slow firing HMG with high damage. In the brace mode the operater roots to ground like the breach forge gun and fires with much higher ROF and alot tighter dispersion, basically becoming a heavy weapons plattform. it requires skill to be a succesfull devastor with heavy bolter in pvp. My point: It shouldnt be difficult to balance a machine gun,perhaps the old super accurate HMG version only needed more range and slightly more damage. The way it is now its resembling more of a giant fully automatic shotgun than an actual HMG/minigun. To add to this, the Heavy Bolter is actually terrible in close quarters once braced because the Devestator has a slow turn in order to accommodate the need to shuffle his feet (the guy squats to brace, so turning is a pain) if you try to aim outside about 45 degrees of the braced position. The trade off, as posted, is an incredible RoF, a decent handle on recoil and dispersion of shots and a lower heat build up (surprisingly) compared to the unbraced, which as the advantages of mobility and being able to use CQC attacks. Powerh8er, have a like for knowing Space Marine/being a player. You still play?
I do this in Battlefield 4. Support with a LMG and a bipod. |
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