DUST Search - We all need a respec. Please.

maluble wrote:

Leadfoot10 wrote:

Ripley Riley wrote:

Leadfoot10 wrote:

No.

I've spent my SP wisely. Why should someone gain an advantage over me from spending it unwisely?

They will have an advantage over you, how? They have access to the same skills you do, at the same SP prices you do?

Are you concerned some new player might start being competitive against you because of an SP respec? Lol

They will have an advantage because they will not have to "pay for their mistakes".

I'm not concerned with any new players becoming competitive -- that already happens with great frequency -- but I am concerned with being given a respec as it is not fair to those of us who used their SP wisely.

To flip this around a bit and using your logic, why not give an unlimited number of SP refunds? They will have access to the same skills as everyone at the same SP prices, right?

Wrong. Because our choices should matter, and SP refunds mean they don't matter.

Which is, essentially, what I'm saying.

How does it not matter when one skills into something and a month later it gets changed? How is that not spending sp wisely when the function of the skill is changed? I think you should actually put some thought into your logic. Your rederic suggests that we should all be physic and predict when something will be changed. Not only that but they release half the weapons, equipment and suits a year later making my previous choices invalid, I dont need ar and cr I dont need sg after the min scout got a good bonus change and kn got a much needed buff. I could go on with more valid reason as to why we should get respec's when **** is always being changed. Why should we suffer because they can't make a semi balanced game to begin with let alone release all the content right away. This is not a model that will succeed even on PC.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1681	Posted - 2014.10.13 15:37:00 - [1] - Quote No. I've spent my SP wisely. Why should someone gain an advantage over me from spending it unwisely?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1681	Posted - 2014.10.13 15:47:00 - [2] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: No. I've spent my SP wisely. Why should someone gain an advantage over me from spending it unwisely? They will have an advantage over you, how? They have access to the same skills you do, at the same SP prices you do? Are you concerned some new player might start being competitive against you because of an SP respec? They will have an advantage because they will not have to "pay for their mistakes". I'm not concerned with any new players becoming competitive -- that already happens with great frequency -- but I am concerned with being given a "get out of bad SP investment for free" as it is not fair to those of us who used their SP wisely. To flip this around a bit and using your logic, why not give SP refunds always? Because your choices should matter. Which is, essentially, what I'm saying.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1681	Posted - 2014.10.13 16:52:00 - [3] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: No. I've spent my SP wisely. Why should someone gain an advantage over me from spending it unwisely? They will have an advantage over you, how? They have access to the same skills you do, at the same SP prices you do? Are you concerned some new player might start being competitive against you because of an SP respec? They will have an advantage because they will not have to "pay for their mistakes". I'm not concerned with any new players becoming competitive -- that already happens with great frequency -- but I am concerned with being given a respec as it is not fair to those of us who used their SP wisely. To flip this around a bit and using your logic, why not give an unlimited number of SP refunds? They will have access to the same skills as everyone at the same SP prices, right? Wrong. Because our choices should matter, and SP refunds mean they don't matter. Which is, essentially, what I'm saying. I agree we shouldnt be able to respec every time we make a choice and end up regretting it, but when i skill into something and the way it works is changed, my choice means nothing. I don't mind tweaks to things but when it becomes useless I don't want it anymore because I never skilled into what it became. Nothing has become "useless", but many things have changed (positively and negatively, with the intent of balance). Moving past that, if you end up regretting your choices then perhaps you should be more measured rather than skill into FoTM or OP things before they get changed. If I'm wrong about that, kindly post a specific example of what you're talking about.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1686	Posted - 2014.10.14 15:00:00 - [4] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Zindorak wrote: So everyone can be a scumbag cal scout? lolno naw smart people will save their sp as i feel a nerfageddon on the horizon for scouts.. especially the cal scout. The smart people figured that out long ago and have been storing SP well ahead of every hotfix since then.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1686	Posted - 2014.10.14 15:36:00 - [5] - Quote maluble wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: No. I've spent my SP wisely. Why should someone gain an advantage over me from spending it unwisely? So what your saying is you dont have 10 mil worth of skills that were drastically changed making them invalid to your playstyle? Yes, I'm saying I have very little wasted SP. I've got all core skills maxed, 4 proto suits, 2 proto weapons, and 2 proto sidarms. A few of those suits have changed significantly (cal scout and gal logi), which required a change to MY playstyle. One of the weapons was useless for months (AR). Two more had their roles change significantly (Gal Logi and Cal Scout). The AR and RR have been nerfed, buffed, and nerfed again. Never did I complain. Never asked for a respec. Just quietly went about adapting to the changes.... And perhaps if your playstyle was a little more flexible and your foresight was a little better, you, too, wouldn't be crying over something that isn't going to happen. Do you do anything other than scout? That's the only suit I ever recall you seeing. Perhaps the issue isn't CCP, but rather you....as putting all your eggs into one basket makes you even more at risk when the balance bat is swung.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1686	Posted - 2014.10.14 15:51:00 - [6] - Quote maluble wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: No. I've spent my SP wisely. Why should someone gain an advantage over me from spending it unwisely? They will have an advantage over you, how? They have access to the same skills you do, at the same SP prices you do? Are you concerned some new player might start being competitive against you because of an SP respec? They will have an advantage because they will not have to "pay for their mistakes". I'm not concerned with any new players becoming competitive -- that already happens with great frequency -- but I am concerned with being given a respec as it is not fair to those of us who used their SP wisely. To flip this around a bit and using your logic, why not give an unlimited number of SP refunds? They will have access to the same skills as everyone at the same SP prices, right? Wrong. Because our choices should matter, and SP refunds mean they don't matter. Which is, essentially, what I'm saying. How does it not matter when one skills into something and a month later it gets changed? How is that not spending sp wisely when the function of the skill is changed? I think you should actually put some thought into your logic. Your rederic suggests that we should all be physic and predict when something will be changed. Not only that but they release half the weapons, equipment and suits a year later making my previous choices invalid, I dont need ar and cr I dont need sg after the min scout got a good bonus change and kn got a much needed buff. I could go on with more valid reason as to why we should get respec's when **** is always being changed. Why should we suffer because they can't make a semi balanced game to begin with let alone release all the content right away. This is not a model that will succeed even on PC. It does matter that thing get changed. However, if you're stupid enough not to realize that this game (and, frankly, every FPS) struggles with balance and haven't realized over the 20 or so iterations of this game that it's a continual process, is it CCP's fault or is it your fault? There is no truly balanced FPS. They all have series of nerfs and buffs to try to achieve balance. The wise player realizes that and chooses their skills wisely against this backdrop. And so you know, the "model that will [not] succeed even on a PC" has been surviving for more than a decade with Eve, not to mention countless other FPS and MMOs that use a similar model, and respecs after every change water down a fundamental tenet of the genre -- your choices matter. So I guess I just need to put some thought into my logic....or you need to realize that all games with skill trees suffer this same challenge.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1686	Posted - 2014.10.14 15:57:00 - [7] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: If I'm wrong about that, kindly post a specific example of what you're talking about. All racial starter fittings had the Assault Rifle fitted to them making new players believe that was their racial go-to weapon... which is 100% wrong and led to many players (who were not Gallente) dumping SP into a weapon that was not inline with their racial rifles. That's hardly an example of useless. At best it's an example of "less useful".
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1686	Posted - 2014.10.14 16:01:00 - [8] - Quote maluble wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: maluble wrote: I agree we shouldnt be able to respec every time we make a choice and end up regretting it, but when i skill into something and the way it works is changed, my choice means nothing. I don't mind tweaks to things but when it becomes useless I don't want it anymore because I never skilled into what it became. Nothing has become "useless", but many things have changed (positively and negatively, with the intent of balance). Moving past that, if you end up regretting your choices then perhaps you should be more measured rather than skill into FoTM or OP things before they get changed. If I'm wrong about that, kindly post a specific example of what you're talking about. Essentially what your saying leadfoot is it doesnt affect you so **** anyo e it does, do you live your life based on such selfish ideals? That's not what I'm saying at all.... What I'm saying is I saw it coming and planned accordingly....and when things don't go as planned, I don't complain, I don't QQ, I adapt. So I guess you don't have a specific example then...and would rather infer that I'm selfish for wanting everyone to be held to the same standard where your decisions matter rather than refund SP because some players specced into FoTM and now it's not as dominant as it was???
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1686	Posted - 2014.10.14 16:08:00 - [9] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And so you know, the "model that will [not] succeed even on a PC" has been surviving for more than a decade with Eve, not to mention countless other FPS and MMOs that use a similar model, and respecs after every change water down a fundamental tenet of the genre -- your choices matter. The choices you make don't matter when CCP changes things on a whim. But they're not "changing things on a whim". They are changing things to improve balance.... ...just like every FPS I've ever played in the past two decades.... ...and just like Dust has been since closed beta.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1690	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:41:00 - [10] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: And so you know, the "model that will [not] succeed even on a PC" has been surviving for more than a decade with Eve, not to mention countless other FPS and MMOs that use a similar model, and respecs after every change water down a fundamental tenet of the genre -- your choices matter. The choices you make don't matter when CCP changes things on a whim. But they're not "changing things on a whim". They are changing things to introduce new content and improve balance.... ...just like every FPS I've ever played in the past two decades.... ...and just like Dust has been since closed beta. So, either you can recognize that and plan accordingly or you can continue to cry for respecs and argue that those who disagree make no sense. The choice is yours. I guess you forgot we only had a dropsuit SP refund for 1.8, when everybody on here wanted a full infantry respec. I had a full vehicle SP refund for 1.7, there wasn't any reason not to get a full dropsuit SP refund. You have no logical argument against one. You think people will get an unfair advantage over you, even though everybody would get one. Or do you enjoy stomping on noobs so much that you won't allow one for that reason alone? I have forgotten nothing, and it's worth noting your "everybody" didn't include me. Moving past that, my argument is perfectly logical: Our choices should matter. Just because you disagree doesn't mean it's not logical. And I don't need my proto weapons and guns to stomp noobs. Stop being silly. I simply think our choices should matter...and I shouldn't be penalized for making sound long-term decisions by giving those with more of a short term focus a "get out of bad choices for free" SP refund.

Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1690	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:58:00 - [11] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: come on now Lead stop acting like we don't know how to play dust and use SP wisely. i have 4 proto suits heavy,2 assaults, and a scout plus 6 proto weapons no matter what happens every patch i have something i can run thats effective. i never wanted to have to do that as i prefer 1 role and gun but noobs cry to nerf the **** out of something till it completely changes or is useless. this makes me use my SP sideways instead of truely maxing out my prefered role. I certainly wouldn't infer that about you, Cuse....but some of these posters sure have me scratching my head on what's driving their request -- thus the question about specific examples. And in fairness to Rat, the latest rounds of balance hotfixes has been much better than the OHK nerhammer that was used on the Logis, active scanners, TAR, Flaylock, or other much more impactful nerfs that the vets like you and I can recall like they were yesterday. Said a bit differently, crying about a respec because the latest nerf to the Assault Scrambler Pistol is far different from crying about a reespec after they nerfed the Flaylock to oblivion a year ago.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1690	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:10:00 - [12] - Quote Just so you guys don't think I'm being ridiculous here... Bringing people back to the game would be something that may change my view on this topic. But what I read in this thread are a bunch of people who already play who want a respec so they can erase the effects of balance on their character. In the end, I suppose it doesn't really affect me outside of this action reinforcing FoTM chasing in the playerbase or any advantage my more measured approach to SP investment has given me. But if the end result is more players playing this game, then I could get on board.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1691	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:37:00 - [13] - Quote Agreed on all counts... FoTM is certainly less prevalent than before. And we should consider things that improve gameplay and bring new players on board -- even if they whittle away some of the advantage those with more SP have. But I still come back to the fact that every single FPS and MMO with skill trees need your choices to matter (otherwise what's the point) and giving respecs violates this tenet. Now, sure, if there's nobody left to play the game then perhaps we can relax it, but is that really the right decision in the long run? Is it really necessary? Clearly, CCP has said no....and I tend to agree. But you do make an effective argument, and I appreciate your tone in comparison to some respondents...Leadfoot
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1705	Posted - 2014.10.16 17:09:00 - [14] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: I am sorry for the aggressive tone but this topic is old and annoying and can be mostly summerized into following: some people want a respec, they bring good arguments for it, other people do not want that others get nice things and bring not so good argumentst. lol Biased much?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1711	Posted - 2014.10.16 19:38:00 - [15] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Considering the allocation of likes in this thread, you are clearly in the minority. I'm sure if we had a thread about free ISK we'd get a lot of likes too. Game design is not democratic.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1712	Posted - 2014.10.16 19:54:00 - [16] - Quote They've said just that. Multiple times. Have you not been paying attention, are you simply upset he didn't repeat the party line for the 1,001st time, or do you really, really, really just want the opportunity to re-spend those SP??