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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
1008
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Remove the side arm slot from all scouts, feel free to adjust pg/cpu numbers but that is probably not even needed.
Every one else has to choose their role carefully and play to fit it some what. The scout is able to have a lot of vision, 2 pieces of equipment, a mix of long and short range weapon, a smaller hit box, and probably some other things I am missing making it viable at really any role. Why is it the scout does not have to give up anything?
Before you scream hit points remember their tiny hit boxes effectively increase their eHP.
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Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1076
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why do people want scouts nerfed? Only thing that scouts need fixing is cal scouts hitbox
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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BlazeXYZ
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
275
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:Why do people want scouts nerfed? Only thing that scouts need fixing is cal scouts hitbox
^ this
The Blazing Intellect Machine
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2553
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:Why do people want scouts nerfed? Only thing that scouts need fixing is cal scouts hitbox
Because they were so used to not dying to them before 1.8, and now that they are, they refuse to allow the scout to be almost as good as a Sentinel or Assault.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
380
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Personally I say just dropping that second equipment slot would create parity. If people would rather play the theorynumberstantrum challenge, have at it.
EDIT: Although the idea of putting them to a single weapontype could work too. But I'd rather see the dialing on the overall use dynamic vs. a straight combat gimping. (MinLogi primary, I know all about being 1 gun and it largely ain't pretty)
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
380
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:Why do people want scouts nerfed? Only thing that scouts need fixing is cal scouts hitbox
Funny thing about that, a casual survey of feedback and gameplay brings many players forward with good reasons to have various elements of the Scout class adjusted individually. Some are stats, some are slots, some are bonuses, some major and some more minor. But any talk of any of them is instant, "Oh Noes, Scouts will be qNurffedq and useless!"
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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RedPencil
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
97
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Posted - 2014.10.13 01:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Remove the side arm slot is logical. I can live with it.
But reduce CPU/PG is too much. Giving some room for Adv or Std scout to breathe.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Crimson ShieId
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1052
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Posted - 2014.10.13 01:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
All hopes for true balance aside and the QQ to cease... I'm not entirely sure this would solve the issue. People would still get shotgunned in the back by cloaked scouts, and what seems to be forgotten on so many occasions is that it's not just one thing that people complain about. Cloaks, Ewar, hitboxes, speed... everything on the scout, people like to complain about. No one thing is going to stop that, it's not going to stop the frustration of getting shotgunned in the back or RE'd, and then the issue of placing multiple nerfs on the suit brings another problem forth. Some of the buffs we've gotten recently, mostly to assaults, have been to try to place it above and beyond what the scout could do, so if you nerf the scout suits to such an extent as to remove a weapon slot and cut CPU/PG down, you could easily wipe them off the map.
As much fun as I occasionally have with it though, I think I'm just going to hop on the bandwagon and say get rid of the cloak.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
110
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Posted - 2014.10.13 01:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Taking away the side arm slot does nothing to balance the class then they will still be balanced in the same pool as assaults but with higher capabilities just like now. If they made them side arm only they could balance the combat ability of the class adjusting for for all issues simultaneously; cal hit box aside if that is a issue.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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hfderrtgvcd
774
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Posted - 2014.10.13 02:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
scouts sacrifice their heath, which is arguably the most important stat in this game.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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shady merc
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
66
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Posted - 2014.10.13 02:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
I am a Minmitar Scout, Assault, Logi with Scout taking at least 50% of my game time. As a scout I use knives and sniper rifles or the occasional shotgun fit. The information below does not mean I believe scouts should be changed it simply show what I believe is the best changes for the class IF changes need to happen.
So when on the field what scout suit do you have issue with. If we followed your advice on taking away the sidearm you would complete negate the following scout types.
nova knife
sniper
shotgun
mass driver
swarm launcher
plc
On top of that I can pretty much guarantee every scout will equip remote explosives to fill the void of having no secondary. This would increase the use of explosives as an offensive weapon, one of the complaint we hear on the forums.
I feel I must state this before going on. In the current version of dust we have, Scouts are slayers. There is simply not enough "scoutly, recon, intel" type game play for them not to be. So if we needed to change scouts lets do it correctly. In any stealth type gameplay the weapons above would be considered the norm (all high alpha weapons that are extremely limited in range, or high precision weapons(less so for the mass driver and swarms). We also associate speed with this type of game play. 2 things we do not associate with stealth type play are extreme health(brick tank scouts) and assault rifles. So if you really wanted to better control the scout role bleeding over into other roles we need to address that.
We need to better limit their ability to use assault rifles and hps. This part is relatively easy. Lets adjust weapon CPU/PG so niche weapons always cost less CPU/PG then Rifles(from here on out Rifles would mean Scrambler rifle, Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, assault Rifle) Slightly increase the cost of Hp modules and lower the cost of Cloak, biotics. We can now lower the scout CPU/PG slightly and increase the other suits CPU/PG slightly to compensate for the changes. That should help with the Assault scout.
Once this is done then we could then see if ewar needs work as all scouts will need to be very careful about the ranges they attack from.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kyoudai Furinkazan
1258
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Posted - 2014.10.13 04:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Much as I dislike playing matches where 8 of the 16 players are scouts , I don't want to limit them to one weapon , I play logi and having one weapon sucks .
I would like to have them eliminate the ability for the scout to be allowed any offensive actions while cloaked , except hacking a null .
People are going back and forth with what should be done and my myself , not playing the role ... believe that the scouts should get together , discuss their role and figure out what ... if anything , should be done .
I use scouts to AV and that's it .
I just don't like the role , they have too many strengths and HP lack there of being their only weakness and they can add extra HP's as well so .
Scout users need to get together and hash it out .
I just don't think that players who don't play the role should have much to say .
All feedback is useful but the scouts will be effected the most so they should be able to work out what should be done about any changes needed to their role .
Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5843
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Posted - 2014.10.13 05:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Personally I say derpa
Fancy meeting you here!
Where's Apothecary?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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benandjerrys
NECROM0NGERS
24
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Posted - 2014.10.13 07:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
[uote=Blueprint For Murder]Taking away the side arm slot does nothing to balance the class then they will still be balanced in the same pool as assaults but with higher capabilities just like now. If they made them side arms only they could balance the combat ability of the class adjusting for for all issues simultaneously; cal hit box aside if that is a issue. Side arms can be buffed and nerfed without effecting the other classes much.
Edit: if anything it would make things worse multiplying Shotgun and Combat Rifle scouts.
Scouts are obviously made to be light and fast for infiltration and CQC side arms only (2 side arm slots) fits this role perfectly. Any decent scout can tell you 2 sidearms is just as deadly if not more so when you play like a scout.
There is a lot of talk about ewar as well, but by nerfing it you will kill scout.
TL;DR
If you change the scouts light weapon slot to a sidearm slot you kill assault scouts and revive the assault class in a big way while maintaining what makes a scout a scout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QZK7OeDhQk[/quote]
Hmm... does anybody else think that This might be why the sidearms got a well deserved buff? The precision/range bonus for assaults floating around could help too to mitigate this and or be a second option. Scouts do deserve shotguns though and lolasma cannons. But at the same time this will make mass drivers the thing to do splash beats hitboxes and rof beats em too. |
Lightning35 Delta514
48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE
96
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Posted - 2014.10.13 15:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Omg just take one equipment slot. That will solve cloaked bombers, the most hated type of scout. I don't know how good it will be with out a side arm. Actually I would really like ccp to consider its removal or not. I like it, it comes in handy. But if you remove it, how will a sniper defend himself from springing enemies? I do know that removing one equipment slot will help a lot. How about a small hp decrees to slightly reduse tanking? That will help as well
Minmatar-assault combat rifle, flaylock pistol, tanked, quick. Before you know it..........your dead.......
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Lightning35 Delta514
48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE
96
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Posted - 2014.10.13 15:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:We changed the logi in old times to be just that... a logi.
Now were in a predicament to change a scout to be just that... a scout.
Destructive data mining is proving its viable to remove the light weapon slot.
Hmm... does anybody else think that This might be why the sidearms got a well deserved buff? The precision/range bonus for assaults floating around could help too to mitigate this and/or be a second option. The omni soldier scout however much fun myself and others have does need to change to make all the suits do what they are logically assigned to do.
Tl; dr
Concentrate less on nerfing and more on role definition
A scout should be able to shotgun and snipe. That will not happen. It's a scout anyways.
Minmatar-assault combat rifle, flaylock pistol, tanked, quick. Before you know it..........your dead.......
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jace silencerww
Inner.Hell
57
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Posted - 2014.10.13 16:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Zindorak wrote:Why do people want scouts nerfed? Only thing that scouts need fixing is cal scouts hitbox Funny thing about that, a casual survey of feedback and gameplay brings many players forward with good reasons to have various elements of the Scout class adjusted individually. Some are stats, some are slots, some are bonuses, some major and some more minor. But any talk of any of them is instant, "Oh Noes, Scouts will be qNurffedq and useless!"
all ccp has to do is this to cut down the scouts to real scouts again. read it all the way though please.
I see the scouts now best to worst (remember I have 3 of the 4 proto working on the 4th now)
first is Gall- great cpu/pg, bonuses give it great ewar (2%precision & 3% damping per level) plus armor tanking and their natural armor regen.
Con is when you are using for all speed tanking but you have a 15% damping-from gal scout bonus, plus 10%-cloaks and 10%-core dropsuit profile damping so your profile is 21.42db so beside that they can pretty much do it all at once with little to give up.
second is Cald- good cpu/pg, bonuses help with low slots ewar (3% damping & 10% passive scan range per level). very balanced as far as ewar, ehp tanking and speed. you have to give something up to ewar, shield and/or armor tank.
Cons the hit box detection needs fixing.
third is Amarr- good cpu/pg. bonuses helps with the lack of high slots for ewar. (5% precision, stamina regen & max stamina per level) a strong defense or assault scout who can pick up most other scouts who are trying to sneak attack or stealth defend a point. they stamina makes up for the slight slower speed by sprinting longer and jumping around with armor tanking to defend a point. a good balanced fighter scout you have to give something up to stealth ewar, speed or tank.
con is a slight buff better base stats of shield and armor maybe 10-15 ehp higher.
last is Minnie. fair at best cpu/pg, bonuses are good if you knowhow to use them. (5% to hacking speed & nova damage) poorly balanced (looks good on paper) good for quick hacking even better with a complex codebreaker. the fastest of the scouts with 11.12 (barely by 0.01, gall scout top sprint is 11.11) fast stamina regen helps to sprinting in hacking, nova knife or throw remotes and get out quickly.
Cons is you must choose what you want to do due to not real balance like the other scouts. hacking fast use codebreakers but give up your damping, armor and speed. choose damping but give up speed, armor, and codebreakers. plus you can not shield tank and use speed mods not enough pg even on proto. so want to ewar to see and hide from the gal or amarr scout great but having low ehp and speed. shield it up some and you can not see others scouts. speed tank and some shield you can not hide from other scouts. this is a truly hard scout to run.
personally that is why I think the gall damping and Minnie hacking should switch. however the Minnie would get 2% damping at most while the gall get 5% to hacking. with 4 low slots they can easily run dampners with codebreakers to stealth hack and with they precision it would let them see others coming for them while letting them choose like the others scouts do now. if gall don't want the hacking how about 5% to scan range per level that adds 5 meters (at proto) to their 20 meters now plus if you have core range ap maxed that is 35 meters total while the caldari is 40 meters. but this was before Cpt McReady came up with this.
Cpt McReady wrote:
switch the bonus to modules.
normalize the bonus of dampeners and precision enhancers to be equal in strength
normalize the base precision and siganture of scouts to be equal in strength
solved.
first of all 2 damps & proto cloak and your gal logi cant do ****, just like now.
and what is the problem that you would have to use damps to be actually invisible? that is the point, to have drawbacks. so if a caldari scouts wishes to see all stuff except a full damped gal scout in exchange for having zero hp than so it be. at least he cannot participate in combat unlike now where the scout can still see almost everything but having enough hp together with a small hitbox.
I agree with Cpt McReady on those 3 points. the only bonus that would be hurt by this is the Minnie nova knife damage. but if ccp willing to they could come out with the other racial knives and give the racial nk damage to each one. so then the Minnie could get a new bonus to a module like the others. |
DDx77
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.10.13 16:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Removing sidearm or light weapon slots does nothing.
Fixing the hotbox issues and/or reducing the scout strafing speed will help a lot.
A possible (major) buff to assault precision detection should be looked at
I also feel the shotgun might need a slight decrease in range.
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1968
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Posted - 2014.10.13 16:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
The problem with scouts is the disparity between different suits ewar. The other suits really need an EWAR buff, especially the logistics suits in my humble opinion.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4149
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Posted - 2014.10.13 16:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fix ewar scaling from light to heavy frames
Make hp mods % based or like eve add light medium and heavy hp mods and adjust cpu pg from there.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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