DUST Search - teams are not balanced

Maken Tosch wrote:

ca ronic wrote:

I get that. But you are making it too complicated, Players consistently getting over 500 wp dont go negative in k/d ratio. Its the randoms getting under 500 points that are going 3-5, 1-11, whatever. I dont see players getting wp's and going negative k/d ratio.

https://plus.google.com/photos/+JessyCorrales/albums/6061208404864561809/6061208411998156546?pid=6061208411998156546&oid=109956220065876189966

If you look at Bigg P on the left side of the roster on the first image, he's got over 1400 WP but with a 6/10 KD. In other photos, the vast majority of players with a high WP count do generally have strong KDs which generally supports your argument. But just like Bigg P, you will occasionally spot a player who is good at getting more WP than kills. In one other photo, Byl17 finished a match with 1/5 but somehow got top of the board with 1140 WPs. Then there is Siiidiiic with a 2/5 KD but is also top of the roster with 1030 WPs for a single match. They are few and far in between compared to the large number of players like Prike El (first photo) who has 18/0 KD and 2376 WPs for that one match. Chances are those players who have high WPs but low KD are those who depend on WPs coming from uplinks, nanohives, vehicle damage, repair tools, revives, equipment destruction, and plenty of kill assists. Unfortunately the KD system doesn't* account for kill assists so we don't have the full picture on that.

EDIT: * - typo

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ca ronic Moffit Bros 14	Posted - 2014.10.10 15:51:00 - [1] - Quote 3 or 4 players get 10 or 20 or 40 kills each and 12 players die a lot and dont do much. Thats just the way it is. The devs are probably players that fall in the +10 kills a game and dont understand what its like for the other 24 players in the game that arent that good. I read a lot about the formulas used to balance the teams, devs dont really have a clue I dont think. Separate the players with less than 1 for a k/d ratio from those whose k/d ratio is over one. The bad players might actually get better if they could play and compete in the games.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3545	Posted - 2014.10.10 15:59:00 - [2] - Quote ca ronic wrote: 3 or 4 players get 10 or 20 or 40 kills each and 12 players die a lot and dont do much. Thats just the way it is. The devs are probably players that fall in the +10 kills a game and dont understand what its like for the other 24 players in the game that arent that good. I read a lot about the formulas used to balance the teams, devs dont really have a clue I dont think. Separate the players with less than 1 for a k/d ratio from those whose k/d ratio is over one. The bad players might actually get better if they could play and compete in the games. what happens if your K/D is crap because you spend most of your time blowing vehicles up? High WP/D, high value to team, but separating, say me from the higher power vehicle drivers and dropping me in with the bads would probably cause more than a few people to quit. K/D is not a good measure of efficiency. Especially when 9 times out of ten blowing up a dropship results in a fun crash but zero kills.
ca ronic Moffit Bros 14	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:20:00 - [3] - Quote I think it would work pretty good. I have a lot of skill points in the forge and die a lot trying to blow up vehicles also. But the only weapon I could have a positive k/d ratio is the hmg. Anything else and i die too fast. k/d might not tell everything that you contribute, but the point is those players that cant even get it into positive dont need to be getting slaughtered over and over by really good players.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9708	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:40:00 - [4] - Quote Please tell me this is another one of Knight Solaire's alts. It's just not funny anymore. And if you are legitimately NOT Knight Solaire, this is a bad idea. KD is never a measure of skills because it is inconsistent. It is inconsistent because a person with bad KD is likely to be able to make up for it with strong logistics support, hacking, or maybe piloting (pilots who fly non-ADS and drive LAVs especially). I also have terrible KD but I am still able to help a team win by causing a major distraction to the opposing team due to my habit of flanking and hacking behind enemy lines. To separate people by their KD is just not going to work out. People thought of this before and the consensus is that KDR is not a good measure of player skill at all in a game like Dust. Maybe in Halo and Call of Duty, but not in Dust. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 98	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:46:00 - [5] - Quote My k/d is under 1 but I am a huge asset to any team you only battles that end up one sided in my experience are the ones with two many snipers or not enough droplinks. I am not a sniper and I has some uplinks along with a nice supply of dropships and tanks for support. Maybe you should look at your play style and revise your outlook and remember droplinks are super easy points. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 103	Posted - 2014.10.10 16:46:00 - [6] - Quote My k/d is under 1 but I am a huge asset to any team you only battles that end up one sided in my experience are the ones with two many snipers or not enough droplinks. I am not a sniper and I has some uplinks along with a nice supply of dropships and tanks for support. Maybe you should look at your play style and revise your outlook and remember droplinks are super easy points. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Ku Shala The Generals 968	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:02:00 - [7] - Quote stop rushing head on to killers? would you go head first fists flailing at a tiger? if you are dieing a lot in the match avoid head on conflict, this isn't boarderlands. the advatages for killing come from surprise in any fit. use cover and if you died following one path choose another. dont do the same thing over and expect different results. matchmaking working better than ever provided enough players are online. the 2-4 players on top happen on both sides and that is the balance not 145 -0 clones with one side slaughtering the whole team with 15-20 kills each. last night almost every match came down to the last clones on both sides with both mcc almost eliminated *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4899	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:06:00 - [8] - Quote Find a group, talk to each other, do stuff that helps each other, use R1 to shoot at bad guys, the bad guys are red. The letters with the square around it are important. Level 4 Forum Warrior Help Me Reach Level 5
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 98	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:10:00 - [9] - Quote It also depends on what weapon you use If you are using a Assault rifle stop and pick up a Rail Rifle or if you have enough skill points to get the Assault Combat Rifle it is soo gambreakingly op. Or switch to a scout and tank it up with a shotty... really you can use any weapon and win as a scout. There are amazing mechanics in this game, but it currently boils down to use the weapons/tactics explained above or learn how to play. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 103	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:10:00 - [10] - Quote It also depends on what weapon you use If you are using a Assault rifle stop and pick up a Rail Rifle or if you have enough skill points to get the Assault Combat Rifle it is soo gambreakingly op. Or switch to a scout and tank it up with a shotty... really you can use any weapon and win as a scout. There are amazing mechanics in this game, but it currently boils down to use the weapons/tactics explained above or learn how to play. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1007	Posted - 2014.10.10 17:16:00 - [11] - Quote There is really no set of data to accurately pair up teams. People that run in squads will always show higher than people that solo, logis will usually have a crap k/d and a lot of points, slayers will always have a high k/d, and the list goes on. If you want better matches throw a squad in squad finder and filter out the crappy players or help them get better at helping you. Stop depending on CCP to do the impossible and know exactly what type of player you should be fighting, make a squad and get out there on the winning side instead of the whining side. If you see someone going too low on the board throw them a squad, many of those guys really do want to learn to be better at the game and with a little bit of help can make great squad members. Some of our most regular players in the Q-sync channel I run are guys that got picked up because they were attempting to run solo and getting stomped no matter where they went but now a couple of months later they are routinely leading squads and placing in the top 5 because all they needed was a little help on where to put their SP and a squad to run with.
ca ronic Moffit Bros 14	Posted - 2014.10.10 18:16:00 - [12] - Quote No, I'm not solaire. lol. I'm frustrated with getting killed so much. Top three players on one of the teams will combine for over 40 kills and that team usually dominates, i dont get in many competitive battles.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9710	Posted - 2014.10.10 19:33:00 - [13] - Quote ca ronic wrote: No, I'm not solaire. lol. I'm frustrated with getting killed so much. Top three players on one of the teams will combine for over 40 kills and that team usually dominates, i dont get in many competitive battles. That still doesn't mean separating people by KD is the solution. There are too many factors in Dust that make KD an insignificant factor in the grand scheme of things. Hacking objectives and installations, mobility offered by pilots of non-assault dropships and LAVs, AV players who are often robbed of their kill as enemy pilots bail out from their burning vehicles, and logistics players providing constant revives/ammo/repairs. These kinds of players will often get very high amounts of war points which can help a squad earn an orbital or hold an objective in an indirect way such as a logi player being a constant guardian for a sentinal that's doing all the killing. Again, the only games I can see with KD being a major factor at all are Halo and CoD where everything is practically even in terms of stats, HP, etc. But as I said before, Dust has too many factors that renders KD as a minor factor. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 99	Posted - 2014.10.10 19:35:00 - [14] - Quote It would be kind of funny to see a team full of boosters though. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 103	Posted - 2014.10.10 19:35:00 - [15] - Quote It would be kind of funny to see a team full of boosters though. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9710	Posted - 2014.10.10 19:55:00 - [16] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: It would be kind of funny to see a team full of boosters though. There's also that. KD in Dust can also be boosted. All you need is 3 people. You, an opposing merc, and a nanite-injector dude in the opposing team who is working with you. Shoot. Revive. Repeat. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
ca ronic Moffit Bros 14	Posted - 2014.10.10 21:44:00 - [17] - Quote [/quote] That still doesn't mean separating people by KD is the solution. There are too many factors in Dust that make KD an insignificant factor in the grand scheme of things. Hacking objectives and installations, mobility offered by pilots of non-assault dropships and LAVs, AV players who are often robbed of their kill as enemy pilots bail out from their burning vehicles, and logistics players providing constant revives/ammo/repairs. These kinds of players will often get very high amounts of war points which can help a squad earn an orbital in addition to holding an objective in an indirect way such as a logi player being a constant guardian for a sentinal that's doing all the killing. Again, the only games I can see with KD being a major factor at all are Halo and CoD where everything is practically even in terms of stats, HP, etc. But as I said before, Dust has too many factors that renders KD as a minor factor.[/quote] I get that. But you are making it too complicated, Players consistently getting over 500 wp dont go negative in k/d ratio. Its the randoms getting under 500 points that are going 3-5, 1-11, whatever. I dont see players getting wp's and going negative k/d ratio. I played a lot of dust today and only one game was close, the outcome of all the other games determined after about 3 minutes. Just guessing but I would think around 60% of the players are going to fall in that negative k/d group. Let them fight each other. I like this game because its about a lot more than k/d.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1674	Posted - 2014.10.10 21:50:00 - [18] - Quote I don't' know about the rest of you, but my impression is that matchmaking has improved since the introduction of the new system. Sure you still have some lopsided battles, but the frequency of the evenly matched ones has gone WAY up.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1942	Posted - 2014.10.10 22:15:00 - [19] - Quote ca ronic wrote: I get that. But you are making it too complicated, Players consistently getting over 500 wp dont go negative in k/d ratio. Its the randoms getting under 500 points that are going 3-5, 1-11, whatever. I dont see players getting wp's and going negative k/d ratio. I played a lot of dust today and only one game was close, the outcome of all the other games determined after about 3 minutes. Just guessing but I would think around 60% of the players are going to fall in that negative k/d group. Let them fight each other. I like this game because its about a lot more than k/d. Almost all of us started out as poor players. The longer you play, the more energy and time you invest in the games, the more you learn about fittings and the tactics of each map, all contribute to your ability to feel successful in Dust. This isn't a game where you can be a rockstar from day one and that working for excellence is one of the factors that really hooks players. Separating players into tiers based upon arbitrary numbers is only going to dilute that element of the game experience and make dust less fun for everyone. Now with more evil.
Michael Arck 5871	Posted - 2014.10.11 00:16:00 - [20] - Quote Everything...is so...different now. It isn't about balance. The suckiness of blueberries has invaded Dust battlegrounds like ranch salad dressing that somehow mixed into your cream corn. Where's the fight? I miss those players who can make a pub match feel thrilling. Where we were on a high afterwards, win or lose, talking about how it came down to the wire. Now blueberries are just worse than they were before. Domination doesn't even play the same no more. I can literally smoke a cigarette and sip on my coffee while I play pub match. Not before though. You better not had been in that menu in the old days!! Somebody was going to find you and kill you if you weren't in the redline! Don't get me wrong, there are still some good players in Dust. Just not as numerous. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain

ca ronic Moffit Bros 14	Posted - 2014.10.11 00:33:00 - [21] - Quote [/quote] Almost all of us started out as poor players. The longer you play, the more energy and time you invest in the games, the more you learn about fittings and the tactics of each map, all contribute to your ability to feel successful in Dust. This isn't a game where you can be a rockstar from day one and that working for excellence is one of the factors that really hooks players. Separating players into tiers based upon arbitrary numbers is only going to dilute that element of the game experience and make dust less fun for everyone.[/quote] That is a good point that you make. I'm not asking to make it too easy, just a bit more sane. Last game i played top two players on my team had over 100 kills, needless to say we depleted their clones. The other team had a total of 31 kills for the whole team. lol.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9716	Posted - 2014.10.11 01:22:00 - [22] - Quote ca ronic wrote: I get that. But you are making it too complicated, Players consistently getting over 500 wp dont go negative in k/d ratio. Its the randoms getting under 500 points that are going 3-5, 1-11, whatever. I dont see players getting wp's and going negative k/d ratio. https://plus.google.com/photos/+JessyCorrales/albums/6061208404864561809/6061208411998156546?pid=6061208411998156546&oid=109956220065876189966 If you look at Bigg P on the left side of the roster on the first image, he's got over 1400 WP but with a 6/10 KD. In other photos, the vast majority of players with a high WP count do generally have strong KDs which generally supports your argument. But just like Bigg P, you will occasionally spot a player who is good at getting more WP than kills. In one other photo, Byl17 finished a match with 1/5 but somehow got top of the board with 1140 WPs. Then there is Siiidiiic with a 2/5 KD but is also top of the roster with 1030 WPs for a single match. They are few and far in between compared to the large number of players like Prike El (first photo) who has 18/0 KD and 2376 WPs for that one match. Chances are those players who have high WPs but low KD are those who depend on WPs coming from uplinks, nanohives, vehicle damage, repair tools, revives, equipment destruction, and plenty of kill assists. Unfortunately the KD system doesn't* account for kill assists so we don't have the full picture on that. EDIT: * - typo On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1943	Posted - 2014.10.11 07:18:00 - [23] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: ca ronic wrote: I get that. But you are making it too complicated, Players consistently getting over 500 wp dont go negative in k/d ratio. Its the randoms getting under 500 points that are going 3-5, 1-11, whatever. I dont see players getting wp's and going negative k/d ratio. https://plus.google.com/photos/+JessyCorrales/albums/6061208404864561809/6061208411998156546?pid=6061208411998156546&oid=109956220065876189966 If you look at Bigg P on the left side of the roster on the first image, he's got over 1400 WP but with a 6/10 KD. In other photos, the vast majority of players with a high WP count do generally have strong KDs which generally supports your argument. But just like Bigg P, you will occasionally spot a player who is good at getting more WP than kills. In one other photo, Byl17 finished a match with 1/5 but somehow got top of the board with 1140 WPs. Then there is Siiidiiic with a 2/5 KD but is also top of the roster with 1030 WPs for a single match. They are few and far in between compared to the large number of players like Prike El (first photo) who has 18/0 KD and 2376 WPs for that one match. Chances are those players who have high WPs but low KD are those who depend on WPs coming from uplinks, nanohives, vehicle damage, repair tools, revives, equipment destruction, and plenty of kill assists. Unfortunately the KD system doesn't* account for kill assists so we don't have the full picture on that. EDIT: * - typo I have long wanted the game to give us more stats to honor the contributions of non-killer players such as: WP/D, Assists/D, damage dealt/damage taken, and Isk destroyed/isk lost. All of these stats would do more to bolster the worth of mercs who are not killers but still contribute to the success of their team. Building these players sense of self value in the game might go a long way towards making all players more participatory regardless of the challenge they face. Now with more evil.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 104	Posted - 2014.10.11 07:50:00 - [24] - Quote Come on bro support is such easy points and you want more rewards. Now when it comes to dropships functioning as dropships sure, but when it comes to dropping uplinks, dropping hives, and leashing a heavy the rewards are already to high. It is hands free game play points with the exception of the repair where you do have to walk. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 104	Posted - 2014.10.11 17:48:00 - [25] - Quote Agreed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmeUuoxyt_E New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
ca ronic Moffit Bros 14	Posted - 2014.10.11 21:15:00 - [26] - Quote .[/quote] https://plus.google.com/photos/+JessyCorrales/albums/6061208404864561809/6061208411998156546?pid=6061208411998156546&oid=109956220065876189966 If you look at Bigg P on the left side of the roster on the first image, he's got over 1400 WP but with a 6/10 KD. In other photos, the vast majority of players with a high WP count do generally have strong KDs which generally supports your argument. But just like Bigg P, you will occasionally spot a player who is good at getting more WP than kills. In one other photo, Byl17 finished a match with 1/5 but somehow got top of the board with 1140 WPs. Then there is Siiidiiic with a 2/5 KD but is also top of the roster with 1030 WPs for a single match. They are few and far in between compared to the large number of players like Prike El (first photo) who has 18/0 KD and 2376 WPs for that one match. Chances are those players who have high WPs but low KD are those who depend on WPs coming from uplinks, nanohives, vehicle damage, repair tools, revives, equipment destruction, and plenty of kill assists. Unfortunately the KD system doesn't* account for kill assists so we don't have the full picture on that. EDIT: * - typo[/quote] Ya, I see them up on top of the board in wp and not so great k/d, always cracks me up somehow when I see them go 1/5 k/d and have 2000 wp's.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9722	Posted - 2014.10.11 21:22:00 - [27] - Quote ca ronic wrote: Ya, I see them up on top of the board in wp and not so great k/d, always cracks me up somehow when I see them go 1/5 k/d and have 2000 wp's. And they should be rewarded accordingly for that. Players shouldn't be shamed just because their support game is far superior to their gun game. And besides, I'm surprised we're talking about this and making it seem like it's a problem when it's not. In the meantime, the real focus is on us scouts and how somehow we are able to do better jobs at being slayers than the assaults themselves. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
farmer 88 Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2014.10.11 21:48:00 - [28] - Quote This game is becoming boiled down , to the haves and have nots ,I go to ambush to make some isk, in a cheap fit and get slaughtered. Against full proto. Most of the players left have millions and billions from broken p.c. and district farming. Their is a devide that's not going away. As a logi my cheapest fit besides starter is 60k , approx. 4 deaths and no profit . Thoes on top will stay on top as I will be easy fodder for their kdr and wp payout. Trying to make isk so I can shoot back with a proto weapon .
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3598	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:05:00 - [29] - Quote K/D split is hilariously bad. I routinely get 800+ warpoints and go 4/7 or something like that. Why? I'm killing tanks, dropships, what have you. The heavier the vehicle spam the more likely you are to see me rocking 2000+ warpoints, and i don't fail to kill a whole lot of vehicles once I get in the mood to kill them. But the K/D separation would insure that I was only pitted against crap vehicle drivers. In my protofit tank/ADS killing fits. That's not what I consider "fair." Funny. But not fair. and it's not "most of the players" who have the PC isk faucet remnants. It's a few select, noisy, and obnoxiously spammy players.


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page