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Draden Brohiem
D3ATH CARD
8
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Posted - 2014.10.10 13:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bolt pistol..... seriously?! What exactly are we waiting on CCP? |
Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
440
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Posted - 2014.10.10 14:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4110
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Posted - 2014.10.10 14:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to.
This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Draden Brohiem
D3ATH CARD
9
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Posted - 2014.10.10 14:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data.
Don't think they need a whole month of data on that thing lol! Just log on, and aim two shots at a heavy?! OK well hopefully this event ends soon. They should've called it the buffed pee shooter event lol! |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
2158
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Posted - 2014.10.10 14:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. 1/4 to half of both teams are using it. Only a matter of time before it proliferates like the Cal logi/TAC rifles.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
174
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Posted - 2014.10.10 15:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Data hmm.. i actually agree here with Matee Boyos its quitly beastly thingie overal *call for Rattati
"Ultimate Loggi since 2012 and Pirmatar Yaaaaaargh."
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SoTa Senpai
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
321
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Posted - 2014.10.10 15:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to.
if CCP knee jerks reacts we'd be seeing fixes A LOT quicker, not the months upon months it always takes CCP to fix the tiniest stat problems.
How long did forge miss fire? 2 months? How long was Flaylock broken? 2 - 3? How about Tac? another 3?
CCP does something much, much worse then knee jerk reactions - they SMASH, HAMMER, and RAVAGE what's broken until it's too weak to compete.
The entirety of the problem is we don't know what data CCP is looking at these past years to continue doing this terrible trend of balancing. It's obviously based on Pub match data, otherwise BP would of NEVER seen these kind of stats. It's an insane weapon, even just looking at the numbers... |
Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
443
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Posted - 2014.10.10 16:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
SoTa Senpai wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. if CCP knee jerks reacts we'd be seeing fixes A LOT quicker, not the months upon months it always takes CCP to fix the tiniest stat problems.
Thing is, if something is OP, and it gets nerfed too hard and without any thought put into it, it isn't fixed. So yeah, if CCP starts knee-jerking like they used to, the changes will come faster, but things won't be fixed.
And that was how things used to be. CCP would just look at how many people were whining, and how strongly they whined, and base their changes on that. No maths, just arbitrary changes. If we went back to that, the Bolt Pistol would be nerfed to uselessness. I don't want to go back to that. I'd rather continue the trend of getting things more or less right the first time. |
Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
443
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Posted - 2014.10.10 16:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote: 1/4 to half of both teams are using it.
During an event specifically for using sidearms. The data is a bit skewed. Sure it is OP, but in an event like this, slight imbalances are magnafied.
Spkr4theDead wrote: Only a matter of time before it proliferates like the 1.7 HAVs.
FTFY. |
Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2356
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Posted - 2014.10.10 16:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data. Don't think they need a whole month of data on that thing lol! Just log on, and aim two shots at a heavy?! OK well hopefully this event ends soon. They should've called it the buffed pee shooter event lol! In all likelihood, the month of data is more about establishing a baseline from the OTHER sidearms so they know how much to nerf the thing instead of blindly manipulating the stats.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4116
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Posted - 2014.10.10 16:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Draden Brohiem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data. Don't think they need a whole month of data on that thing lol! Just log on, and aim two shots at a heavy?! OK well hopefully this event ends soon. They should've called it the buffed pee shooter event lol! In all likelihood, the month of data is more about establishing a baseline from the OTHER sidearms so they know how much to nerf the thing instead of blindly manipulating the stats.
This is spot on. I don't think there's any debate that the Bolt Pistol is overpowered. But buffing and nerfing competently isn't just lowering numbers when something's too powerful and raising them when it isn't enough. We actually need to know how much to raise or lower those numbers.
"Just logging on and aiming two shots at a heavy" does not tell us how much to nerf the Bolt Pistol.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Draden Brohiem
D3ATH CARD
11
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Posted - 2014.10.12 17:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
So we're in agreement that it shouldn't be killing heavies in two shot? Good lol! |
Isa Lucifer
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
67
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Posted - 2014.10.12 18:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Draden Brohiem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data. Don't think they need a whole month of data on that thing lol! Just log on, and aim two shots at a heavy?! OK well hopefully this event ends soon. They should've called it the buffed pee shooter event lol! In all likelihood, the month of data is more about establishing a baseline from the OTHER sidearms so they know how much to nerf the thing instead of blindly manipulating the stats. This is spot on. I don't think there's any debate that the Bolt Pistol is overpowered. But buffing and nerfing competently isn't just lowering numbers when something's too powerful and raising them when it isn't enough. We actually need to know how much to raise or lower those numbers. "Just logging on and aiming two shots at a heavy" does not tell us how much to nerf the Bolt Pistol.
Thank you for replaying Soraya.
Amarr Victor
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Nirwanda Vaughns
807
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Posted - 2014.10.12 19:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Bolt pistol..... seriously?! What exactly are we waiting on CCP?
what is this bolt pistol you speak of? i don't believe i've seen anyone using such weapon?
Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
proud C-II bpo owner
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game RUST415
359
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Posted - 2014.10.12 19:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
The bolt shouldn't have been touched in the first place lol
Caldari Loyalist
I speak for the rabbits
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Cpt McReady
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
110
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Posted - 2014.10.12 19:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data. sniper rifle damage as sidearm, what else do you need to know? |
Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1018
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Posted - 2014.10.12 19:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. 1/4 to half of both teams are using it. Only a matter of time before it proliferates like the Cal logi/TAC rifles. 1/4 to half the teams contain scouts.. and they havnt been nerfed yet... nerf scouts before you nerf the Bolt pistol (even more)
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1018
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Posted - 2014.10.12 19:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cpt McReady wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data. sniper rifle damage as sidearm, what else do you need to know? same could be more then said for shotgun.. still hasnt been nerfed.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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hold that
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
283
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Posted - 2014.10.12 20:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Cpt McReady wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data. sniper rifle damage as sidearm, what else do you need to know? same could be more then said for shotgun.. still hasnt been nerfed. yeah the shotgun needs a nerf how long you've been playing this game, two months? |
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
110
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Posted - 2014.10.12 20:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think they patch monthly so that is what we are waiting on. As for the shotgun a range or dispersion increase nerf would seem proper I mean look at the thing it has no barrel and can do critical dmg 20 feet away (guessing). Scouts are the only reason a lot of weapons are unbalanced.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Echo 1991
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
494
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Posted - 2014.10.12 20:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
they dont need data. it does too much damage over a pretty short period of time. Lower damage or RoF |
Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
487
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Posted - 2014.10.12 21:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:they dont need data. it does too much damage over a pretty short period of time. Lower damage or RoF It does less DPS than any of the other pistols or SMGs. By your logic, all the sidearms are even more OP, which they clearly aren't.
It is OP, but you don't seem to realize why it is OP... |
man- bear pig
D3ATH CARD
58
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Posted - 2014.10.12 22:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Draden Brohiem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:For the event to end, so they can look at the data and see exactly what they need to do, rather than nerfing **** based on knee-jerk reactions like they used to. This. And note that the Bolt Pistol has already been nerfed once since Delta. But to fine tune the nerf, to lovingly craft the nerf, we need data. Don't think they need a whole month of data on that thing lol! Just log on, and aim two shots at a heavy?! OK well hopefully this event ends soon. They should've called it the buffed pee shooter event lol! In all likelihood, the month of data is more about establishing a baseline from the OTHER sidearms so they know how much to nerf the thing instead of blindly manipulating the stats. This is spot on. I don't think there's any debate that the Bolt Pistol is overpowered. But buffing and nerfing competently isn't just lowering numbers when something's too powerful and raising them when it isn't enough. We actually need to know how much to raise or lower those numbers. "Just logging on and aiming two shots at a heavy" does not tell us how much to nerf the Bolt Pistol.
So is this a policy you just accepted after delta? Because they made the SCR useless compared to other rifles. Fully skilled into SCR with Ammar assault lvl 5 as well. I'm doing **** with the SCR, pick up a combat rifle for the first time and I do better then I could with the SCR.
Where was the rifle comparison on that one?
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game RUST415
158
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Posted - 2014.10.12 22:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
The fact that it fires so slow means it's ridiculously easy to aim shots... You practically can't miss with that slow regular rythm.. As for the reason it's powerful, range.... It can outcompete most light weapons let alone sidearms... Cap it at 40 m and reduce damage by 40 and it'll be decent
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
nerf life
Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
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Eruditus 920
Prodigy Ops
552
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Posted - 2014.10.12 22:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
The Bolt pistol is in a good place right now. Maybe increase the clip size to 6 but that's all it needs.
Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.
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BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES
THE BONERBOMBS
41
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Posted - 2014.10.12 23:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Bolt pistol..... seriously?! What exactly are we waiting on CCP? Clip size and range were nerfed in delta. It has the slowest ROF of all sidearms. Please babies quit crying and find a tit to suck on.
I enjoy beverage
I manage beverage
But mostly enjoy beverage
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Echo 1991
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
494
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:they dont need data. it does too much damage over a pretty short period of time. Lower damage or RoF It does less DPS than any of the other pistols or SMGs. By your logic, all the sidearms are even more OP, which they clearly aren't. It is OP, but you don't seem to realize why it is OP... Yet the others cant 3 shot a heavy without head shots. A sidearm should not be more powerful than a light weapon. As for your assumption, its op because of how much damage it does. DPS means nothing if it can kill instantly. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
1184
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Posted - 2014.10.13 02:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
The Bolt Pistol's old stats were mostly fine. All it needed was a range increase.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
479
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Posted - 2014.10.13 02:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Bolt pistol..... seriously?! What exactly are we waiting on CCP?
Numbers for hotfix Echo.
THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
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Vesta Opalus
Kang Lo Holding
50
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Posted - 2014.10.13 14:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote: Yet the others cant 3 shot a heavy without head shots. A sidearm should not be more powerful than a light weapon. As for your assumption, its op because of how much damage it does. DPS means nothing if it can kill instantly.
Except that it cant kill a heavy with a single clip with body shots, its literally impossible, this is a verified fact.
manboar thunder fist wrote:It can outcompete most light weapons let alone sidearms...
This is just bullpoop, every light weapon has better dps than the bolt pistol, and every light weapon has comparable or better range except for the shotgun. If you are seriously getting out gunned by someone with a bolt pistol using a light weapon, they got lucky or you need to get good.
The bolt pistol is only good because of the sidearm event where it has a good range advantage on other sidearms, Im rarely being killed by it even in my 2 extender scout suit and I can count on a single hand how many times my minmatar assault suit has been killed by it.
Meanwhile even during the sidearm event, Im STILL being killed 50%+ of the time by damped+cloak+shotgun scouts, lions share of the rest from HMG heavies, so why arent they considered OP? Because people are butthurt that the bolt pistol is actually worth using now.
My prediction is the bolt pistol spam wont last much longer than the sidearm event, because it really isnt as good as people seem to think. |
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