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el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 362	Posted - 2014.10.10 22:20:00 - [1] - Quote @OP On the surface I think this is a good suggestion, so long as the AmarrScout bonus overlap is resolved, Shared Squad Vision STAYS, and the Cloak KEEPS its dampening values. All in all I think EWAR is one of the best elements to this game, especially considering the science far-future fiction setting, and increasing the availibility access for players is a good thing. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 362	Posted - 2014.10.10 23:21:00 - [2] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: poison Diego wrote: I agree with some of the thing you are saying but if you are making scouts unusable, in PC there will be nothing but HMGs and slayer logis on the field AGAIN! this is a cycle. then they will moan about an hmg nerf, the assault will get more buffed, heavies nerfed, logis absolutely altered and scouts irrelevant. PC will get so boring and pub matches even more unfair to new players. If I was a new player I would rather fight a low ehp scout than a full on heavy hands down. Scouts need a piece of dat nerf but nothing to drastic. I like your ideas of assaults being able to scan scouts using precision but removing shared passive scan is the worst idea of them all. It would paralize scouts roles as "intell-gatherer" and absolutely makes no sense what so ever why their main role should be taken away from them. I do understand that the scouts have a roles they fulfill, but they are way way too many at the present, and they fufill some of those roles to the exclusion of the other suits. On the shared PASSIVE vision, the problem is it makes scanners obsolete. Why would you want a limited cone of vision that shows for a smal period of time that is weak on all but one suit, when you can have something that is stronger, always on, envelops 360 degrees, and you can do it while cloaked. Active Scans > Passive Scans because 1) Waaay more range and 2) Detection sensitivity is NOT based on the base profile of he user. The benefits to passives don't become worth a ** until the mods are stacked and even then really between the two they balance out fine. Varoth Drac wrote:** Having thought about this more I am strongly of the opinion that EWAR is as balanced as it is going to be and any changes are far more likely to break things than improve anything. How is it balanced that the only participants in EWAR are scouts? They aren't. They just have the best innate base stats for it. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 373	Posted - 2014.10.11 19:31:00 - [3] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Can you please quit lying now Adipem? I am getting really tired of you being deceitful. Dude, if I were trying to deceive anyone, I wouldn't be providing spreadsheets. How 'bout you put together the progressions for yourself instead of peddling platitudes and ad hominem? Feel free to use my math. I already did, last page, go look. Then come back here and say something. Fact of the matter is you ARE being misleading and you know it, that is known as lying. You're right. I forgot to account for +10% proto cloak. Here are the new figures: 19 dB -Proto MN Scout, Straight Damps, Max Skilled, Proto Cloak Active 18 dB - Proto CA/AM Scout, Straight Damps, Max Skilled, Proto Cloak Active 15 dB - Proto GA Scout, Straight Damps, Max Skilled, Proto Cloak Active Your model still isn't reasonable. You can't require an entire class to be max-skilled, always run proto gear, always run proto cloak, and always run straight damps, all to avoid being permascanned. The only way to pitch this is to do away with the GA Logi bonus and find a new bonus for the GA Scout. Your model is impractical and imbalanced. The current model is working; why should we scrap it? Because you say so? So if the tables provided are agreed as being accurate, then all I'm reading there as far as competitive EWAR access is a Logi with 4(!) highs dedicated to PreEnh can pick up a scout w/1damp and a cloak. Or, a GalLogi (by virtue of bonus) running the most powerful scanner available can pick them up for a very short time, in fairly long intervals. My question then is, what aspect of an extremely limited RANGE (the logis passive) and extremely limited detection ability OR an extremely limited DURATION (the GalLogi w/activescanner) and narrow scope ability equates to "PERMASCAN"? PERMASCAN phonetically is an contractional abbreviation for Permanent Scans. Scans all, all of the time. Which one or combo of the two above equals that? Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 373	Posted - 2014.10.11 22:10:00 - [4] - Quote Since this thread has reached "brass tacks" level with the establishment that only Scouts evidently are to counter Scout prec/damp except for he GalLogi, who if he carries the top protorype scanner can maybe counter for 5seconds, I'd like to run an idea past everyone. I've asked this before, in other places and times and am curious based on the last 8 pages what the answer would be here. What if CCP were to add a vehicle scanner that has 10+ db detection, is cheap and has the same fitting stats as the existing scanner? Hell, what if the existing vehicle scanner just had its sensitivity lowered to 10 db? It'd give ALL frames an easily accessible tool to use in the EWARs and maybe balance this whole scenario without major mechanical/statistical recoding. And before ppl jump up about Heavies in LAVs creeping on them, LAVs, especially with a scannner on, don't creep. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:03:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I got hatemail for driving over a cloak scout. I hope you reminded him that if he doesn't know how to play in the street then he should stay inside. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:06:00 - [6] - Quote And why did this thread suddenly go from being about expanding ewar access to frames outside of Scouts to being about balancing ewar amongst just Scouts? Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.10.12 16:28:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And why did this thread suddenly go from being about expanding ewar access to frames outside of Scouts to being about balancing ewar amongst just Scouts? OP isn't interested in better EWAR interplay among MedFrames or fixing "assault lite". His goal is to make all Scouts easier to scan, even low-HP dampened ones. This thread is and has always been about nerfing Scouts. All Scouts. Not just the problematic ones. * Nerf Profile Dampeners by 5% * Nerf Scout Scan Profile by 5 dB * Nerf AM Scout Precision by 10% Amadeuss EWAR might work if: * Replace GA Scout precision bonus * Reduce GA Logi precision bonus * Fully Fix Spin Scan * Disable Shared Passives Enabling more types of medium frames to be able to be able to detect Scouts would be a buff to them AND a buff to the Scouting profession. It would help balance out "assault lite" , and low HP dampened scouts (who if they dampened more would still be undetectable) would only be detected by low HP mediums, so thats a fair enough trade. Especially since by virtue of base profile the Scout frame regardless of race STILL keeps the detection advantage and if their intel shows that they're being detected they STILL have the base design to avoid the threat. ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... Your proposed fixes are as irrelevent as looking to the top of the leaderboard for evidence of frame use. For being a purported "voice of reason" your data suggestions are proving you very zealous. I'd like to see a blue tag in here for no other reason than to know Rattati sees your "input" for the useless bs it is. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 376	Posted - 2014.10.12 17:27:00 - [8] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So I put together a few charts as I did before for swarms (4 missiles for all/increasing damage for lower tiers... yep that was me) and the amarr scout bonus issue (was a while ago). This time it is exploring how EWAR is fundamentally broken right now, and how we could bring it back to balance so that other suits can also be a part of this metagame. Here is a graph of what EWAR looks like now. The (p) stands for precision and the (d) stands for dampening. As you can see, it is quite easy to avoid all scan with minimal sacrifice, and there is no sacrifice great enough to try to keep up. 1) Change a few scan profile/precision numbers. The scout goes to 40/40, logi to 45/45, assault to 50/50, and heavy suits to 55/55. 2) Change precision dampners to mirror the values of precision enhancers. (i.e. cmplx-20%, enhanced-15%, basic-10%) 3) Change amarr precision bonus to 3% per level Doing these changes would alter the above chart from what it is to THIS. Much more balanced, dampening specialized suit can still become fully undetectable, and even an assault can pick up on scouts who don't dampen at all. 4) Change active scanners to mirror the new values, change gallente logi bonus to 3% / level) value/{gal logi value} Proto focused = 20 / {17} Proto = 26 / {22} Advanced = 30 / {25} Standard = 40 / {34} Scanners are now useful for all suits again, but can easily be dampened to not be seen (1 cmplx damp on a sentinel evades the standard scanner on a non-bonused suit) Some examples of the new system. An assault with 1 complex enhancer picks up undampened amarr/minnie scouts, 2 enhancerss picks up the caldari and gallente ones too. Basically assault scouts now have to deal with prepared normal assaults. A logi with 3 cmplx dampners picks up all amarr/minnie scouts with two dampners and cal/gal with 1 dampner. Useful for watching a squads back. A crazy caldari sentinel that fits all complex precision enhancers could pick up undamned scouts (and even amarr/minnie scouts who go with only 1 damp). I would say that is one heck of a sacrifice, but it could potentially pay off. EDIT: Changed proto active non-focused scanner to not pick up minmatar/amarr scouts when they fit to avoid scans. EDIT: Update OP Remember, this will allow scout to remain the very best at any single category of EWAR, but now they have to make trade-offs like every other suit in the game. EWAR should never be a go scout or go home proposition. we dont need to "fix" ewar.. we just need to nerf scouts and buff active scanners Dude. Pretty please with sugar on top. Don't help. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 378	Posted - 2014.10.12 19:54:00 - [9] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: For EWAR to work for one class, in favor of one class and to perpetuate gross overall game imbalance all scouts need to be able to beat all scans as well as retain all the other advantages of the class. FTFY. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 380	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:59:00 - [10] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: For EWAR to work for one class, in favor of one class and to perpetuate gross overall game imbalance all scouts need to be able to beat all scans as well as retain all the other advantages of the class. FTFY. Because scouts are running rampant, wholly unchecked, and pushing KDRs substantially higher than every other class. It is a proven fact that all slayers now run scout suits all the time. If performance stats suggest otherwise, it's because performance stats are lies. Again with the distraction kd leaderboard garbage? Feel free to post ANY actual performance statistics you're privy to. I didn't think that I would have to actually explain why the kdr leaderboards aren't relevent since anyone with even a basic actual understanding of statistical analysis would see that 1. The KDR leaderboard only goes for a couple thousand positions ( for a game with, by most estimates a population of roughly 12 thousand at any given point) which automatically excludes record of thousands of players. disclaimer: 12k is, yes, an estimate, based from threads on the topic and personal observation of the Tranquility player counter which, I know, is mostly EVE players. 2. In a game, such as Call of Duty or maybe HALO, where the overwhelming objective is killing the opponent solely using a kdr datapool could give a reasonable assessment of player activity. In a game like DUST514 however, since the perogative is not exclusively the killing of the opponent but rather the winning of the game by any of a number of means (elimination of clones being just one) focusing on kdrs solely ignores the other methods and the means of achieving them. 3. Your continuous insistence of focus on not just the kdr leaderboard but the top of it limits not just the scope of a sad datapool but also its breadth . You are pointing at statistical OUTLIERS and claiming that an average of them is an average of the entire group. Statistical outliers and any anomoly among them is proof of little nothing in general for the actual average and proof of ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING here. A couple of times you have claimed or insinuated some knowledge or possession of "performance statistics". If you actually have either I invite, encourage and at this point demand you provide them here or in the words of Magnus^, " STFU and GTFO". So tired of theorycraft idiots trying to pony stupidity around as evidence. You affirm with every. Single. Self-interested Post. Exactly why crowdsourcing game improvement ideas from the playerbase can be such a **** idea. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 380	Posted - 2014.10.13 00:02:00 - [11] - Quote benandjerrys wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: This still gives scout a complete monopoly on EWAR. I would, pwrsonally, much rather ewar be split three fold between each suit tier. Medium gets best scans, scout best dampening, and heavy best scan radii. Smartest thing said all day. Assaults are now viable game is almost balanced. So, Mediums see everyone except who they really need to, Scouts stay as overadvantaged as ever and Heavies are just as bling but for farther? Lookout, the smartbus just pulled in! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 380	Posted - 2014.10.13 00:22:00 - [12] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: For EWAR to work for one class, in favor of one class and to perpetuate gross overall game imbalance all scouts need to be able to beat all scans as well as retain all the other advantages of the class. FTFY. A scanned scout is a dead scout. Why do you think Amarr and Minmatar were completely irrelevant between Alpha and Charlie? Because Cal scouts could scan and broadcast their locations to every heavy in their squad. If scouts were the most broken OP suit in the game, they would be a majority of fielded mercs in PC, but they are not. When you come back with some real data to support your claim, let us know. A scanned scout is the best equipped frame in the game to survive having been scanned, provided it is scouting and not assaulting or logi'ing. Because the other members of the class were favored for assaulting and now that assaults have been bonused/slotted differently some of the scout suit tourists have gone to greener pastures. PC is rampant with scouts. If you don't see them you're either not pc active, oblivious to what situational awareness and combat causality is, or blind/deaf/dumb. To support the imbalance of Scout base stats relative to all other frames I refer you to the base statbsheets yo can go read for yourself in the market under "Dropsuits". If that's no good then we know what answer to the pc question above is. hint: it's the last one. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 382	Posted - 2014.10.13 01:29:00 - [13] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: For EWAR to work for one class, in favor of one class and to perpetuate gross overall game imbalance all scouts need to be able to beat all scans as well as retain all the other advantages of the class. FTFY. Because scouts are running rampant, wholly unchecked, and pushing KDRs substantially higher than every other class. It is a proven fact that all slayers now run scout suits all the time. If performance stats suggest otherwise, it's because performance stats are lies. Again with the distraction kd leaderboard garbage? Feel free to post ANY actual performance statistics you're privy to. I didn't think that I would have to actually explain why the kdr leaderboards aren't relevent since anyone with even a basic actual understanding of statistical analysis would see that 1. The KDR leaderboard only goes for a couple thousand positions ( for a game with, by most estimates a population of roughly 12 thousand at any given point) which automatically excludes record of thousands of players. disclaimer: 12k is, yes, an estimate, based from threads on the topic and personal observation of the Tranquility player counter which, I know, is mostly EVE players. 2. In a game, such as Call of Duty or maybe HALO, where the overwhelming objective is killing the opponent solely using a kdr datapool could give a reasonable assessment of player activity. In a game like DUST514 however, since the perogative is not exclusively the killing of the opponent but rather the winning of the game by any of a number of means (elimination of clones being just one) focusing on kdrs solely ignores the other methods and the means of achieving them. 3. Your continuous insistence of focus on not just the kdr leaderboard but the top of it limits not just the scope of a sad datapool but also its breadth . You are pointing at statistical OUTLIERS and claiming that an average of them is an average of the entire group. Statistical outliers and any anomoly among them is proof of little nothing in general for the actual average and proof of ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING here. A couple of times you have claimed or insinuated some knowledge or possession of "performance statistics". If you actually have either I invite, encourage and at this point demand you provide them here or in the words of Magnus^, " STFU and GTFO". So tired of theorycraft idiots trying to pony stupidity around as evidence. You affirm with every. Single. Self-interested Post. Exactly why crowdsourcing game improvement ideas from the playerbase can be such a ** idea. Thank you for that digest. In reality, if scout suits were super duper OP, we'd see nothing on the field but scout suits. That's not the case, but believe whatever you want broseph. Not my job to teach you to think straight. You like that? Good. Digest that *, yeah, brohamb. Digest it down reeeal good* since the same way it's not your job to teach me how to think it's not mine to teach you either and my having to of had to still pisses me off. BTW, this isn't and wasn't the/a "F ScoutsOPqqthread" from what I read of the OP, it was a "This could be equalized better like this..." proposal thread and you decided to turn it into a QQScoutNurf! horrorthread. Your silence, as Magnus has pointed out repeatedly, is deafening regarding questions of anything that isn't your agreed perspective. Good thing you have reputation, eh? 'Cause you sure as hell don't seem to have **** else. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 383	Posted - 2014.10.14 17:54:00 - [14] - Quote The longer this thread goes, the farther I move from the opinion that the only adjustment scouts need is removal of one equipment slot and closer to the opinion of F scouts, nerf them on all points. Speed, profile, cpu/pg, slots and weapon access. The blatant self-service from the scouting "community" when supposedly discussing "balancing" in any thread that attempts to do so is disgusting. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 383	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:04:00 - [15] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So I put together a few charts as I did before for swarms (4 missiles for all/increasing damage for lower tiers... yep that was me) and the amarr scout bonus issue (was a while ago). This time it is exploring how EWAR is fundamentally broken right now, and how we could bring it back to balance so that other suits can also be a part of this metagame. Here is a graph of what EWAR looks like now. The (p) stands for precision and the (d) stands for dampening. As you can see, it is quite easy to avoid all scan with minimal sacrifice, and there is no sacrifice great enough to try to keep up. 1) Change a few scan profile/precision numbers. The scout goes to 40/40, logi to 45/45, assault to 50/50, and heavy suits to 55/55. 2) Change precision dampners to mirror the values of precision enhancers. (i.e. cmplx-20%, enhanced-15%, basic-10%) 3) Change amarr precision bonus to 3% per level Doing these changes would alter the above chart from what it is to THIS. Much more balanced, dampening specialized suit can still become fully undetectable, and even an assault can pick up on scouts who don't dampen at all. 4) Change active scanners to mirror the new values, change gallente logi bonus to 3% / level) value/{gal logi value} Proto focused = 20 / {17} Proto = 26 / {22} Advanced = 30 / {25} Standard = 40 / {34} Scanners are now useful for all suits again, but can easily be dampened to not be seen (1 cmplx damp on a sentinel evades the standard scanner on a non-bonused suit) Some examples of the new system. An assault with 1 complex enhancer picks up undampened amarr/minnie scouts, 2 enhancerss picks up the caldari and gallente ones too. Basically assault scouts now have to deal with prepared normal assaults. A logi with 3 cmplx dampners picks up all amarr/minnie scouts with two dampners and cal/gal with 1 dampner. Useful for watching a squads back. A crazy caldari sentinel that fits all complex precision enhancers could pick up undamned scouts (and even amarr/minnie scouts who go with only 1 damp). I would say that is one heck of a sacrifice, but it could potentially pay off. EDIT: Changed proto active non-focused scanner to not pick up minmatar/amarr scouts when they fit to avoid scans. EDIT: Update OP Remember, this will allow scout to remain the very best at any single category of EWAR, but now they have to make trade-offs like every other suit in the game. EWAR should never be a go scout or go home proposition. we dont need to "fix" ewar.. we just need to nerf scouts and buff active scanners ~~Dude. Pretty please with sugar on top. Don't help~~. My bad, you are right, I am wrong. Carry on. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 383	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:33:00 - [16] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: The longer this thread goes, the farther I move from the opinion that the only adjustment scouts need is removal of one equipment slot and closer to the opinion of F scouts, nerf them on all points. Speed, profile, cpu/pg, slots and weapon access. The blatant self-service when supposedly discussing "balancing" in any thread that attempts to do so is disgusting. I understand where you're coming from in terms of the biased statements of many "balance" discussions. It is kind of funny that you post your reply after I point out my disappointment in the fact that when I use my scout suit (my primary suit) I slip under most passive scans, with other scouts being the primary group to spot me. Honestly, a logi at least should be able to catch my undamped Min scout. Also, the binary (yes/no, true/false) nature of the scan is harmful to gameplay, there should be at least a 5% chance of getting caught on radar no matter what the profile and precision of the two suits (or 1-16 suits, and one scanner involved); as well as at least a 5% chance of avoiding a scan. Yeah, I skimmed the last couple pages and its just more of the same from single-class/role protectionists and I'm frankly sick of it. Its horrible that for any sort of moderate idea to be considered it has be the product of an extremist perspective debate since extremism almost never resolves itself with moderate compromise and the whole while during the process the extremest values remain and when the debate ISN'T resolved in the middle, one extreme or the other becomes and entrenches as the accepted norm. Nerf scouts. On every stat. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 383	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:43:00 - [17] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Finn Colman wrote: a logi at least should be able to catch my undamped Min scout. Any Logi with 1x precision enhancer can scan an undampened, uncloaked MN/AM scout. Make it 2x precision enhancers and the Logi can even scan them while cloaked. Make it 3x precision and AM/MN scouts will need 2x damps to avoid the Logi scans while not cloaked. Sorry, I concede that my information may be outdated and wrong. Last I checked was a while ago (before cloaks were implemented), and I only really checked with a Min logi. The numbers may well have changed since then, but at the time I was deciding whether or not to invest in precision enhancers, and after doing the math, found extremely little reason to do so. The simple fact that keeps being swept aside about the passive scan aspect is that even with stacked prec theres no enhancement to range , only precision, so even if that logi (or other medium) detects a non or single damped scout that scout is already on top of that medium, with a faster movement speed, smaller hitbox, light or sidearm weapon to use AND mix n match equipment to use. EDIT: AND odds are good the scout is almost equal in hp, since the medium had to drop to stack the other mods, AND the scout will ALWAYS have the medium passively lit since the base profile is signifcantly lower. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:54:00 - [18] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: The simple fact that keeps being swept aside about the passive scan aspect is that even with stacked prec theres no enhancement to range , only precision, so even if that logi (or other medium) detects a non or single damped scout that scout is already on top of that medium, with a faster movement speed, smaller hitbox, light or sidearm weapon to use AND mix n match equipment to use. EDIT: AND odds are good the scout is almost equal in hp, since the medium had to drop to stack the other mods, AND the scout will ALWAYS have the medium passively lit since the base profile is signifcantly lower. Yes, and the fact that the other 5 assaults in that Logis squad have to sacrifice absolutely NOTHING and still receive all scanning bonuses is also too easily forgotten most of the time. I don't want to defend scouts. I too think the gap between scouts EWAR and mediums EWAR is too big. But what I hate the most about scouts is that their precision is too good and that there is no way to avoid a scouts (or GA Logis) wallhack without ruining a fit. And that is exactly the reason why I despise the idea of buffing precision even further. Giving more suits wallhacks cannot be the solution. The other 5 assaults receive jack and **** once they move outside of the logis detection range/their tacnet overlap area. To keep any sort of group "wallhack" they would have to stay clustered less than 10m from the logi. 10m being the average running distance a second for any of the scouts. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:56:00 - [19] - Quote Nerf scouts. All stats. All levels. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.10.14 23:04:00 - [20] - Quote mollerz wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Nerf scouts. All stats. All levels. Your sig is so ironic. You like that? Words to live by. The ~~stru~~giggle is real. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.10.14 23:30:00 - [21] - Quote mollerz wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: mollerz wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Nerf scouts. All stats. All levels. Your sig is so ironic. You like that? Words to live by. The ~~stru~~giggle is real. It's just that it comes off as hypocritical. Your sig says one thing, yet you act in contrary fashion to it. Maybe you should change your sig so it is more honest. Meh, not a bad point really. My sig dates back several months whereas my current demeanor about scouts is a much more recent development. Ironically as well, however, I in realizing my current demeanor see the signature as actually more fitting now. If anything, when seen in the wider context, the signature contributes to my honesty. Nerf scouts. All stats. At all levels. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.10.14 23:33:00 - [22] - Quote I tried fair and moderate but received and observed nothing but bs for the effort so, f it. Nerf scouts. All stats. At all levels. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:01:00 - [23] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Nerf scouts. All stats. All levels. Reads post Reads Sig Chokes and dies laughing Works for me. Stay that way, unless it's not too late for me to include a fire. Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Chokes on own bs and dies laughing in a fire Even better. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.10.15 17:10:00 - [24] - Quote And when the viewable area of the game is 360-¦ the "Just use your eyes" arguement for vision being a cloak-counter will be valid. Nerf scouts. All slots. At all levels. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:25:00 - [25] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: If a scout catches you form behind he doesn't even need a cloak. Then cloaks aren't neccessary for scouts to do their job? Well, not what I was going for but I'm sure the throngs of "RemoveCloaks" opinionated players are happy to hear that from you. LOL brainscrub. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 388	Posted - 2014.10.15 20:04:00 - [26] - Quote mollerz wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: If a scout catches you form behind he doesn't even need a cloak. Then cloaks aren't neccessary for scouts to do their job? Well, not what I was going for but I'm sure the throngs of "RemoveCloaks" opinionated players are happy to hear that from you. LOL brainscrub. EDIT: Dang it, almost forgot- Nerf scouts. All stats. At all levels. Cloaks are only good for minjas due to the active dampening they need to get under scans. It's horrible for knifing. I only use it on hack suits. My bread and butter is hunting heavies with knives so cloaks aren't very useful for that. But let's face it, if a scout got within shotgun range BEHIND YOU and you didn't see the huge blue glow BEHIND YOU you weren't going to see it coming anyways. Yet another not what I was going for, but w/e, it proves the point just as well episode. This Moment in Low IQ Interpretive Dance has been brought to you by scouts, hubris and the letters G and G. EDIT- Dang! I'm having a real hard time remembering this whole zealotry thing... Nerf scouts. All stats. At all levels. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 388	Posted - 2014.10.15 22:15:00 - [27] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: If a scout catches you form behind he doesn't even need a cloak. Then cloaks aren't neccessary for scouts to do their job? That isn't true. Scouts don't just slay. They infiltrate and hack. Pre 1.8, I would often take several minutes to skirt the entire map, as close to the redline as possible, just to get to a far off CRU and/or objective to give my team a better chance, only to have someone spot me from 100 m or more away after all my effort and take me out in the blink of an eye. Just because you don't see everything I do as a team mate, and only pay attention to the scouts that are killing you, doesn't mean that killing is the only scout role. I don't end up on the top of leader boards with 10 kills or less because I everyone else is just that bad, there are other ways to score WP and win matches. And I don't frequently rank in the top 5 with 1 or 2 kills and a whole sheetton of deaths because I'm oblivious to there being more that needs to be done than kill. I am not anti-cloak. I am not anti-tactical play. I am also not anti-gamebalancing that prohibits any single one class from being overly dominant in battlefield effect, thus Nerf scouts. All stats. At all levels. P.S. I'm glad that some point you read or were taught section one, chapter one of basic recon 101- Use the Edge. That you missed chapter two, Don't Be in Line of Sight or chapter three, Create a Fallback Along the Way, doesn't justify retention of the stack of base advantages the scout frame has. Initially, I felt the biggest issue was dual equipments. After having attempted and observed various balancing discussions and witnessed the gross entitlement culture of todays scout community I am now very much a Nerf scouts. All stats. At all levels. guy. Thank your own community for their help both in game and on forum in forging this mentality. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

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