Scout player detected.

I will not support anything related to making anyone immune to being detected.

why even have the gallogi then?

We're only tweaking one variable here. Easy to check for unintended consequences.

Drop Logi/Assault Profile by 5 dB. No unforeseen consequences. 2 damps (24 dB) beats proto scans just like before (no change w/GA Logi either).

Efficacy bonuses made more sense prior to EWAR normalization. I'm not altogether opposed to the concept, but I believe there are cleaner ways to solve the "assault lite" problem (if it is in fact a problem).

why would the logi be better than the assault when the assault should be the hunter?

Scouts being the only counter to scouts is a problem.

It's no different than the only counter to snipers being snipers (it's not anymore) or the only counter to a sentinel being a a sentinel (it never was). That kind of deliberate design has always been abused. Just look at all of the FOTM stuff and the number of times it has been pointed out that x feature had no real counters.

The idea that a scout has to screw up to be killed or that a enemy should get lucky and happen to spot them inbound is not a counter.

A counter should be a counter and be dependant upon mechanics and some functioning level of skill and awareness.

The curretnt EWAR system renders the only hard counter to a scout being the cout screwing up badly or having a bad luck moment. Scout EWAR needs a counter that lime AV vs V. Is not an assured win. But by the same token the scout needs to have some chance of failure of stealth so that they can occasionally be pinged.

The curretn syatem allows no margin for error. It is binary. It is permascan/permahide.

Both permascan and permahide are bad and need to be killed. There needs to be a variable whether that variable is range, movement or amount of time spent inside enemy scan range or an RNG that sets a 1 in 20 chance that a scout appears on your radar or the sentinel briefly vanishes.

In DUST the only sure outcome is the results of scanning and profile. Because there is no variable involved it will always be permascan and permahide. This is not healthy over the long term for the game when one subset of players haas a clear and uncounterable advantage over the rest of the players.

No any counter dependent upon the scout screwing up or for the circumstances to unfold so you happen to notice a cloak is not a counter.

Dumb luck is never a counter. It's just dumb luck..

You are the only one who thinks it is fine that an assault CANNOT see an undamped scout with just a cloak on it.

You know what, I am pretty sure you just don't want an assault(with THREE ENHANCERS) to be able to passively scan a scout that has 1 damp and a cloak.... you don't want that as possiblity. Just go ahead and admit that. Actually you don't want any medium suit to be able to passively scan a scout that only commits one damp do you? No matter how many enhancers a medium puts on...

Might as well just remove the radar. The problem is scouts can and are unscannabe anyway and can still defeat the token suit bonused to scan them down even when it is fitted for max scans. And in EWAR if you CAN defeat it you always do.

See the issue?

This might come in handy for Haerr's cloak concept ...

If cloak is active, set precision = 99 (scouts are effectively ewar blind while cloaked).

---

One of few problems with the concept is that the cloak can only affect one scan parameter at a time, which is currently pointed to Profile. If we zeroed profile, we'd muck up low-end profile/precision interplay unless it was offset elsewhere (i.e. damps). I'll check the math :-)

700 eHP with 3 hp/sec armor rep is not low and 30 hp/sec shield (with a small delay). Especially when that suit is 100% invisible and puts out over 500 DPS, runs at over 7m/sec for a long time, with great stamina recharge, while being able to see all non damped suits (aside from the gal/caldari scouts) from 30 meters away. No sacrifice made there.

That is pretty solid mid-HP numbers, with rep, with great shield recharge, and great damage, and immunity to scans, and great ewar, on a suit that didn't focus on anything.

And proto assaults have really high HP, not sure why you would think to compare to that.

@ Jebus

May have found a way to make Haerr's cloak nerf work. Would you mind spot-checking this for potential problems?

You know what you stated is exactly what is written in the OP right?

So I put together a few charts as I did before for swarms (4 missiles for all/increasing damage for lower tiers... yep that was me) and the amarr scout bonus issue (was a while ago).

This time it is exploring how EWAR is fundamentally broken right now, and how we could bring it back to balance so that other suits can also be a part of this metagame.

Here is a graph of what EWAR looks like now. The (p) stands for precision and the (d) stands for dampening. As you can see, it is quite easy to avoid all scan with minimal sacrifice, and there is no sacrifice great enough to try to keep up.

1) Change a few scan profile/precision numbers.
The scout goes to 40/40, logi to 45/45, assault to 50/50, and heavy suits to 55/55.

2) Change precision dampners to mirror the values of precision enhancers. (i.e. cmplx-20%, enhanced-15%, basic-10%)

3) Change amarr precision bonus to 3% per level

Doing these changes would alter the above chart from what it is to THIS. Much more balanced, dampening specialized suit can still become fully undetectable, and even an assault can pick up on scouts who don't dampen at all.

4) Change active scanners to mirror the new values, change gallente logi bonus to 3% / level)
value/{gal logi value}
Proto focused = 20 / {17}
Proto = 26 / {22}
Advanced = 30 / {25}
Standard = 40 / {34}

Scanners are now useful for all suits again, but can easily be dampened to not be seen (1 cmplx damp on a sentinel evades the standard scanner on a non-bonused suit)

Some examples of the new system.

An assault with 1 complex enhancer picks up undampened amarr/minnie scouts, 2 enhancerss picks up the caldari and gallente ones too. Basically assault scouts now have to deal with prepared normal assaults.

A logi with 3 cmplx dampners picks up all amarr/minnie scouts with two dampners and cal/gal with 1 dampner. Useful for watching a squads back.

A crazy caldari sentinel that fits all complex precision enhancers could pick up undamned scouts (and even amarr/minnie scouts who go with only 1 damp). I would say that is one heck of a sacrifice, but it could potentially pay off.

EDIT: Changed proto active non-focused scanner to not pick up minmatar/amarr scouts when they fit to avoid scans.
EDIT: Update OP

Remember, this will allow scout to remain the very best at any single category of EWAR, but now they have to make trade-offs like every other suit in the game.

EWAR should never be a go scout or go home proposition.

3. 28% damps versus 20% enhancers. The counter to damps are enhancers. you want to make the counter only 72% as effective.
That is a joke right? I mean no one is really that stupid are they?

1) interesting interplay for ewar between all suits

2) scanners that are useful

Part of the reason why shared passive scan is b.s. and it needs to go. 1 suit getting free always on intel is, sharing it with the squad is 10 times worse than spinner active scanners ever were. That is called permascan, and it is B.S. gameplay. The suit being scanner doesn't even get notified that they are being scanned. Basically everyone in your squad is now a scout permanently.

Right now that same assault is pictked up by an amarr scout with 1x CPE, this same assault who sacrificed 4x lowslots shows up on 6 peoples screens.

I never EVER seen a "you have been scanned" anymore... ever. The only time anyone attempts to scan me anymore is with a vehicle. No scanners are just crap right now and no one uses them. The reason? Why equip something that is limited in field of view, is only working a faction of the time, requires you to put away your weapon, and is not very strong when you can just fit a scout and suffer none of those problems?

Right now the system is broke, if you are not in a dampened scout you ARE permascanned to up to 6 people at pretty much all times without even knowing it, with absolutely no way to counter it. The only reason people aren't super upset is because there isn't a notification at the top of the screen, but that is actually even worse.

a logi at least should be able to catch my undamped Min scout.

The simple fact that keeps being swept aside about the passive scan aspect is that even with stacked prec theres no enhancement to range , only precision, so even if that logi (or other medium) detects a non or single damped scout that scout is already on top of that medium, with a faster movement speed, smaller hitbox, light or sidearm weapon to use AND mix n match equipment to use.

EDIT: AND odds are good the scout is almost equal in hp, since the medium had to drop to stack the other mods, AND the scout will ALWAYS have the medium passively lit since the base profile is signifcantly lower.

Anyone who says "use your eyes" is being ignorant at best and dishonest at worst.

Scans are no more of a crutch than cloaks are.

And when the viewable area of the game is 360-¦ the "Just use your eyes" arguement for vision being a cloak-counter will be valid.



Nerf scouts. All slots. At all levels.