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Vehicle Skills and Turret Variations

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Halla Murr Skullbreakers 14	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:25:00 - [1] - Quote Premise The following ideas and workings are intended to provide a teamwork for a rebalancing/further balancing of vehicles - specifically focused on Dropships - and small turrets, including variants. Each part will be a separate post and will be linked to below for ease of access/future linking. [url]Part 1: Vehicle Skill Tree[/url] [url]Part 2: Assault Dropship Skills[/url] [url]Part 3: Small Missile Turret Variants[/url] [url]Part 4: Small Railgun Turret Variants[/url] [url]Part 5: Small Blaster Turret Variants[/url] Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 14	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:25:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 14	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:26:00 - [3] - Quote Reserved Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 14	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:27:00 - [4] - Quote Reserved Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 14	Posted - 2014.10.08 05:28:00 - [5] - Quote Reserved Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 215	Posted - 2014.10.08 06:17:00 - [6] - Quote Great ideas man. The blaster really out to be modeled after the HMG and not just the reticule. On the nose of a ship it has to have a high rate of fire high direct damage and a high enough dispersion to have an area of effect . Sort of like the missiles splash, blaster rounds IMO ought to the same amount of damage over a similar area. Its almost the definition of spray and pray. Long range with low heat buildup, low DPS, some dispersion, i.e; Proto turrets on a proto ship shouls have the same punch as the boundless against suits. Compressed like the 6 kin burst, medium range, high DPS, High ROF, high over heat. Best suited for gunners, and would only be viable on the nose in a dogfight. I'm not so good with numbers but perhaps you can find some balance by using the HMG as a template. Small blasters ought to keep thier damage profile against vehicles, but not be as good an option as rails or missiles. I envision its use as a low level strafe run, best employed by using the First Person View. On a gun run you can damage suits within the area of effect, but pretty much kill suits that are directly in your line of fire. Medium suits ought to be torn to hell, thus giving Gallente ships the ability to fight back against swarms in a single pass. Keeping low means using the cover to avoid locks. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1904	Posted - 2014.10.08 07:29:00 - [7] - Quote I'm all for these chages. Only thing missing is fitting values. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2257	Posted - 2014.10.08 11:42:00 - [8] - Quote I'd add an Accelerated Missile too. Faster, longer range, high direct damage but low splash and radius. Specifically designed for AV, especially aerial combat. I'd like this much better than the burst. Dust was real! I was there! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Atiim 12831	Posted - 2014.10.08 11:56:00 - [9] - Quote Your proposed Cycled Missile Launcher is broken. Launching 5 missiles in a span of .04s makes the TTK of an Infantry disproportionately low. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 18	Posted - 2014.10.08 13:04:00 - [10] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I'm all for these chages. Only thing missing is fitting values. Good point, I'd forgotten entirely about that! Not sure what to do about their fitting to be honest Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I'd add an Accelerated Missile too. Faster, longer range, high direct damage but low splash and radius. Specifically designed for AV, especially aerial combat. I'd like this much better than the burst. Accelerated was a previous variant, but I felt that the Caldari skill granting missile speed effected that type quite nicely. Though please post some numbers for an Accelerated variant, would be good to see and I'd be happy to throw it into the OP! Atiim wrote: Your proposed Cycled Missile Launcher is broken. Launching 5 missiles in a span of .04s makes the TTK of an Infantry disproportionately low. Yes and no. The high damage compression makes it very powerful on a direct hit, but with a reduced splash radius and reduced splash damage over the burst (each individual splash does very little damage: less than any other explosive splash) it requires direct hits to apply the damage, which is not easy nor reliable to consider. Consider additionally that a single direct hit is worth less than the Basic turret's splash damage, so unless multiple missiles land on target, it will do less damage than the Basic turret. That is the intention: it makes the Cycled variant very potent against vehicles in particular but makes it much less applicable against infantry. Perhaps you can help me with the maths if you still consider this overpowered? Consider that the variant is supposed to do much more direct damage but have a drawback of much less infantry killing power. If the burst is too slow, it's DPS is too low to truly threaten vehicles, but the splash needs to be low enough to make killing infantry very difficult. A side effect of the Cycled variant makes it a very good strafing run weapon, because you can fire and forget, hoping for random direct hits as you fly/drive past quickly. Though that is hardly reliable... Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.

Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2258	Posted - 2014.10.08 14:07:00 - [11] - Quote I do like the missile speed bonus, I think I'd be a great bonus rather than the RoF bonus currently. A splash radius bonus would also be great. The reason turret variants should be introduced, at least for missiles, is because CCP and the CPM have said that ADSs are too good at everything. Having specific AV and anti-infantry turrets would allow for greater stats in their specific role (Av would have high direct damage for hitting vehicles and AI would have better splash radius/damage). I'm not too fond of the cycled because it seems like they'd be good at everything, but I know they're a crowd favorite so perhaps something could be worked out. I'd rather just have the Accelerated for AV, Scattered for AI, and the regular as a multi-tool that's OK at everything. As far as stats go, I'll leave the specifics to CCP since I'm not good at them. I just give a general idea what I want and hope they make it reality. Dust was real! I was there! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 24	Posted - 2014.10.08 14:36:00 - [12] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I'm not too fond of the cycled because it seems like they'd be good at everything, but I know they're a crowd favorite so perhaps something could be worked out. I'd rather just have the Accelerated for AV, Scattered for AI, and the regular as a multi-tool that's OK at everything. I appreciate your other comments too, but I wanted to focus on this: what is it about the Cylced that makes you feel it would be too effective all-round? The burst splash damage is roughly equivalent/slightly weaker (roughly 17.5% weaker actually, which is what the Fragmented is on direct) than basic turrets. Is it the high direct burst damage? Maybe we can reduce the splash radius further? Would that be a reasonable balancing factor? A 1m splash radius (1.5m with Python 5) would be substantially smaller than currently (a 25% reduction on the basic turret radius) while still having much reduced splash damage. Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 29	Posted - 2014.10.08 19:44:00 - [13] - Quote Any other comments/criticisms? Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 29	Posted - 2014.10.09 04:10:00 - [14] - Quote What do others think of these ideas? What about the possible changes I've suggested? Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 74	Posted - 2014.10.09 04:43:00 - [15] - Quote All I want is my accelerate missiles back, and have them how they were pre 1.7, high speed missiles that did the same damage and splash but required more cpu/pg. ScP = GÖÑ If you like chiptune An Ace Pilot
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 29	Posted - 2014.10.09 14:25:00 - [16] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: All I want is my accelerate missiles back, and have them how they were pre 1.7, high speed missiles that did the same damage and splash but required more cpu/pg. Aside from it being a pretty small request(!) what do you think about the turret variants and (more specifically because of your interest in accelerated missiles) the ADS skills, especially the Python granting missile travel speed? Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2014.10.09 19:40:00 - [17] - Quote Halla Murr wrote: Part 2:Assault Dropship Skills The current racial Assault Dropship skills are currently irrelevant, not applying a bonus that is actually useful. The intention of the bonuses below is to define the ships by providing definitive bonuses to match their racial turrets. Assault Dropships Skill - Assault Dropship role bonus: applies to all racial Assault Dropship skills +2% to small turret damage per level. [As the previous Assault Dropship skill provided, but more in line with the current Dropsuit skills.] \- Gallente Assault Dropships: -5% to small railgun heat build-up and +20% to small blaster splash radius per level. [Improves the Incubus's ability to apply damage to targets.] [Edit 1: increased splash radius bonus for small blaster to make the bonus more respectable.] \- Caldari Assault Dropships: +10% splash radius and missile speed to small missile turrets per level. [Increases the application of the Python's primary weapon against both aerial and ground targets.] Each of the bonuses above are intended to increase the applicability of small turret damage without directly increase the speed at which damage is applied. I really love the choices for bonuses on these skills. They really hit home with me across all turrets. Extra speed on missiles will make them significantly more reliable and more splash damage on Blasters sounds like just what it needs to be more useable from such an unstable platform. At the same time, it won't affect small blasters on other vehicles like tanks and lavs, which might have made them too effective.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 35	Posted - 2014.10.10 21:14:00 - [18] - Quote Thanks Kaeru. What do you think about the variant turrets? Looking for more feedback from anyone who will spare me a minute. :P Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 180	Posted - 2014.10.11 02:09:00 - [19] - Quote The speed of how the dumb fire missiles travel I really don't think is an issue. If CCP brings back the different small turret variants we may see some great changes to vehicle engagements. Accelerated Missile Turret - Accelerated I would see this being a long range as it was before but with a 2meter splash damage. Fragmented Missile Turret - Fragmented would have as it use to the best splash damage, and splash radius. (no less than 5 meter and no more than 7 meter). WIth that small of a radius change, which is no different than a locus grenade, will make strafe runs from 63meters and up, more in an achievable range. This could very well bring missiles a bit into engaging A/V. (Still not a substitute to adjusting the turning radius of swarms. Currently with their speed, the turning is still not enough). Cycled Missile Turret - If they can make a cycled missile turret, not exactly like the old one where it was a 3 burst but similar to the recent one we have had. A Full auto that's designed to destroy ground vehicles. (WHY NOT OTHER DROPSHIPS!?!? Dumb fire missiles are not meant to be used against arial targets). Scatter Blaster - I Think the biggest issue with the blaster on the dropship is we need a proper Gallente anti vehicle small turret. Before this turret was still used to mow down infantry but did the most damage. If CCP places this blaster to doing more damage and bring its ROF down this will be great. Not only will it free up to allow Caldari vehicles, and Gallente vehicles to engage each other, it will make customization better. It would be great to see pythons flying with their own small turret, and it's profile flipped back to what it should be. As it stand small rails do more damage on shields than armor Compressed Blaster - The issue with long range and high RoF turrets against infantry is the gun needs some kind of coding to apply a gradual sway from left to right. That way when shooting against infantry the gun has a better chance of hitting the target from a dropship when flying straight towards it. Stabilized Blaster - Make the stabilized blaster the ideal blaster for our support dropship pilots with a dedicated gunner. Keep it as is unless these type of players are having an issue with them. Previously this blaster was the most accurate one with less dispersion. Plasma cannon style turret!?!?!? This would be nice to see as a counter to the Caldari Large and Small turrets! *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 38	Posted - 2014.10.12 20:47:00 - [20] - Quote Thanks Gabriella, good to see some input. I do have to disagree with the 'dumb fire missiles not for anti-DS' notion: missiles are a good anti-air tool, even unguided - take my suggested Cycled turret, and with the suggested Python missile speed bonus, it would make a very dangerous anti-air and anti-ground vehicle weapon because travel speed is a large factor. Honestly, all missiles should be faster because they just are. As to your specific ideas: Accelerated: yep, seems entirely reasonable. Can I ask your opinion on my suggested ideas? Not to be a ****, but I was hoping for input and feedback on what I had suggested. Fragmented: again, seems perfectly reasonable. Again about my original suggestion, what do you think about a marginally higher ROF for the fragmented missiles, since it would be for a saturation type of bombardment where the basic turret would be more precise. Cycled: I really like the idea of a small missile turret mimicking the large missile turret. Would you like to throw some numbers about? Scattered/Compressed/Stabilised: all good ideas. Would you care to give me a hand with some numbers? I'm not especially experienced with blasters, mostly because they've been so worthless for so long previously. Again, I would love to have some more feedback from people, especially those who have stated interest and/or reticence about the ideas in this thread. Hopefully Rattati sees this and considers it (a blue tag would stop me consistently bumping it ) Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.

Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3335	Posted - 2014.10.12 21:43:00 - [21] - Quote Great Ideas here... http://evil-guide.tripod.com/
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 158	Posted - 2014.10.12 22:24:00 - [22] - Quote Personally I feel that the fragmented should function like the assault mass driver with the cycled having a 12 round clip of full direct damage rockets that are rapid fire. Similar to jets in bf3 having a rocket rack for antitank.... This would maybe have 300 dmg *12 being 3600 base + armour prof and ads bonus, but with a long reload, 12 seconds maybe? This would allow rapid hit and run in vehicle vs vehicle engagements and heavy suppression on infantry but no real damage unless lucky direct impact coupled with long reload, low splash and only 4 clips to fire before supply depot is needed NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 46	Posted - 2014.10.14 17:31:00 - [23] - Quote A small missile turret that works like the large missile turret? I'd love to see it, though I'm not certain on how to balance the numbers; too effective and the large missile is rendered obsolete (just get a LAV mounted small!) but not effective enough and it cannot perform the role intended. manboar, what do you think about the Cycled variant that I suggested as part of my initial post? I think that might cover what you are thinking about for the small rapid missile turret. As always, welcome more feedback and thoughts. Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 186	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:13:00 - [24] - Quote Hey Halla, sorry it took me a while to reply to your numbers specifically. This isn't all just mostly about the skill tree and small missile turrets. When I have time I will post my thoughts on Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, forge guns, etc. For the vehicle skill tree I would organize it similar to how you had it: I. Dropship A. Standard Caldari Dropship 1). Caldari Assault Dropship 2). Caldari Logistics Dropship B. Standard Gallente Dropship 1). Gallente Assault Dropship 2). Gallente Logistics Dropship II. HAV's A. Standard Caldari HAV 1). Caldari Enforcer HAV 2). -+?-+? B. Standard Gallente HAV 1). Gallente Enforcer HAV 2). -+?-+? III. LAV's A. Standard Caldari LAV 1). Caldari Scout LAV 2). Caldari Logistics LAV B. Standard Gallente LAV 1). Gallente Scout LAV 2). Gallente Logistics LAV Bonuses: Caldari Assault Dropship +2% Damage Efficiency to Small missile and Small Rail turrets. Gallente Assault Dropship +2% Damage Efficiency to Small Blasters and Small Plasma turrets. *(Amarri Logistic Dropship +3% Reduce respawn time MCRU per level.)* Caldari Logistic Dropship +3% Increase Active Scanner range per level. Gallente Logistic Dropship +3% Duration to Active Scanners per level. Caldari Enforcer HAV +3% Efficiency to Large Missiles and Large Rail turrets. Gallente Enforcer HAV +3% Efficiency to Large Blasters and Large Plasma turrets. Caldari Scout LAV (open to suggestions) Gallente Scout LAV (open to suggestions) Caldari Logistic LAV (open to suggestions) Gallente Logistic LAV (open to suggestions) *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 188	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:20:00 - [25] - Quote Cycled Small Missile Turret: A small missile turret with high direct damage compression (ie, high damage in a short period of time) but with reduced splash damage. Fire Mode: full auto fire interval 0.6 Burst Delay: 1.6 seconds Splash Radius: 1.9m Pod Size: 5 Max Ammo: 50 Reload: 2 seconds 300m Affective range D: 350 STD/MLT \| 420 ADV \| 455 PRO S: 175 STD \| 223 ADV \| 310 PRO Fragmented Small Missile Turret: Fire Mode: single shot fire interval 1.2 Burst Delay: NA Splash Radius: 5m Pod Size: 5 Max Ammo: 35 Reload: 4 seconds 260m Affective range 200 Optimal range Fragmented Damage: D: 350 STD/MLT \| 420 ADV \| 455 PRO S: 275 STD \| 330 ADV \| 358 PRO Accelerated Small Missile Turret: Fire Mode: single shot fire interval 1.2 Burst Delay: NA Splash Radius: 2.5m Pod Size: 8 Max Ammo: 64 Reload: 4 seconds 300m Affective range 260 Optimal range Accelerated Damage: D: 350 STD/MLT \| 420 ADV \| 455 PRO S: 275 STD \| 330 ADV \| 358 PRO *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 46	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:05:00 - [26] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Hey Halla, sorry it took me a while to reply to your numbers specifically. This isn't all just mostly about the skill tree and small missile turrets. When I have time I will post my thoughts on Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, forge guns, etc. Heh, no worries, I greatly appreciate the time and effort you took to respond! Gabriella Grey wrote: Caldari Assault Dropship +2% Damage Efficiency to Small missile and Small Rail turrets. Gallente Assault Dropship +2% Damage Efficiency to Small Blasters and Small Plasma turrets. Fair enough. Though I would consider this to be slightly below par with dropsuit skills: dropsuits have a role bonus (the one above is akin to the Commando bonus) but also have a racial bonus. My original suggestion of ADS Role giving small turret damage across the board, with racial skills exemplifying specific turret/module efficacy. That's my feeling on the skill front anyway. As far as this skill idea is concerned, I think it is reasonable, but could do with a Role bonus like the dropsuits do. Gabriella Grey wrote: *(Amarri Logistic Dropship +3% Reduce respawn time MCRU per level.)* Caldari Logistic Dropship +3% Increase Active Scanner range per level. Gallente Logistic Dropship +3% Duration to Active Scanners per level. These seem reasonable. Again, I'd probably go for some kind of role bonus being a cross-race bonus (maybe reduced cooldowns) with the above style specific bonuses for racial ships. Gabriella Grey wrote: Caldari Enforcer HAV +3% Efficiency to Large Missiles and Large Rail turrets. Gallente Enforcer HAV +3% Efficiency to Large Blasters and Large Plasma turrets. Again, reasonable. Gabriella Grey wrote: Caldari Scout LAV (open to suggestions) Gallente Scout LAV (open to suggestions) Caldari Logistic LAV (open to suggestions) Gallente Logistic LAV (open to suggestions) I'd probably suggest Scanner bonuses to the Scout LAVs and module cooldown bonuses to the LLAVs. Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 46	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:06:00 - [27] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Cycled Small Missile Turret: Looks good. Damage compression seems perfectly reasonable and the small clip size combined with the ROF and reload keeps the DPS reasonable. If I understand correctly, your DPS figures are as follows: D: 583.3 \| 700 \| 758.3 S: 291.7 \| 371.7 \| 516.7 DPClip: Over 3 seconds (5 x 0.6 = 3 seconds to fire all shots) D: 1750 \| 2100 \| 2275 S: 875 \| 1155 \| 1550 Takes roughly 48s to empty the reserve ammunition; 52.2s with max ammo and reload skills. My only small gripe would be that 1.9m radius might be a little much. My feeling is that the high direct DPS and compression should further sacrifice splash killing power, though this would be something that would need jiggering about with. Overall, seems like a perfectly useful and balanced turret! +1 Gabriella Grey wrote: Fragmented Small Missile Turret: Almost identical DPS to the basic turret, which is great and the focus is on the increased splash radius. I like your idea of reducing the clip size, which makes it much less useful in a direct damage dealing capacity. [quote=Gabriella Grey]Accelerated Small Missile Turret: With the suggested range for the Cycled/Fragmented, I think this turret is lacking: a 200m optimal is already well beyond a dropships rendering distance for anything but HAVs and DSs. The only real benefit it has is the faster missile, which is somewhat lacking when the target at ~300m is going to be so small. I'd probably say that a higher ROF, lower damage and larger clip would help, but not really sure. Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 188	Posted - 2014.10.15 05:54:00 - [28] - Quote Well I saw that the efficiency that currently is for +2% damage to still be very useful. I was going for something to where weapons can be expanded upon giving the faction trait. The scout LAV scanning could work well also but the Logistics LAV's I wonder if they are ever reintroduced will they still have the triage whip that they were so well known for. So I have left that blank. I wasn't quite finish with the total read out on the turrets but even despite rendering issues Fragmented and Accelerated look very viable for me. It will set dedicated pilots apart from each other, and give it more squad orientation. Both should be lethal small turrets against infantry when combined with a squad using attack orders. It will allow squad leaders to engage the order wheel towards vehicles and make strafe/seige against heavily populated areas of infantry interesting. Also they are probably going to be ideal turrets for those who are good at toggling from 3rd person to 1st person. Sometime near the end of this week I will post my final information for all missile turrets, and the remainder turrets, followed by a more detailed tree with prerequisites. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 189	Posted - 2014.10.17 08:42:00 - [29] - Quote Cycled Small Missile Turret: Fire Mode: full auto fire interval 0.6 Burst Delay: 1.6 seconds Splash Radius: 1.9m Pod Size: 5 Max Ammo: 50 Reload: 2 seconds 300m Affective range 300m Optimal range D: 350 STD/MLT \| 420 ADV \| 455 PRO S: 48.1 STD \| 57.8 ADV \| 62.6 PRO Fragmented Small Missile Turret: Fire Mode: single shot fire interval 1.2 Burst Delay: N/A Splash Radius: 5m Pod Size: 7m Max Ammo: 35 Reload: 4 seconds 260m Affective range 200 Optimal range Fragmented Damage: D: 350 STD/MLT \| 420 ADV \| 455 PRO S: 275 STD \| 330 ADV \| 358 PRO Accelerated Small Missile Turret: Fire Mode: single shot fire interval 1.2 Burst Delay: N/A Splash Radius: 2.5m Pod Size: 8 Max Ammo: 64 Reload: 4 seconds 300m Affective range 260 Optimal range Accelerated Damage: D: 350 STD/MLT \| 420 ADV \| 455 PRO S: 275 STD \| 330 ADV \| 358 PRO *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 189	Posted - 2014.10.17 08:46:00 - [30] - Quote Small Plasma Turret (Scattered Blaster): Fire Mode: Charge Box size 24 Max ammo 96 Rate of Fire 72 Splash Radius N/A fire interval 0.65 charge up time 0.7 charge down time 1.2 Optimal range 120m Effective range 100m D: 334 STD/MLT \| 400 ADV \| 434 PRO S: N/A Large Plasma Turret Heat Build Up Load out (clip) 7 Max ammo 63 Fire Interval 1.8 Optimal Range 260m Effective Range 260m Cooldown time 9 Cooldown time overheating 16 D: 1235 STD/MLT \| 1431 ADV \| 1627 PRO S: N/A *(Side note)* These two distinct types can be a great counter to the rail variants. Should also balance out the two current vehicles making them much better customized on their role and not placing one type of vehicle superior than the other. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos

Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 189	Posted - 2014.10.17 08:53:00 - [31] - Quote Small Blaster Turret Fire interval 0.07s Box size 400 Max ammo 2400 Heat cost per second 12.5 Splash radius 0.5m D: 62.92 STD/MLT \| 71.72 ADV \| 76.12 PRO S: 44.00 STD/MLT \| 52.80 ADV \| 57.20 PRO *(Side note)* To make this gun viable it needs these changes. Better damage profile, more ammunition, double the size clip, and reduced heat cost per second. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 189	Posted - 2014.10.17 09:06:00 - [32] - Quote For the forge gun I only dug into the to prototype variants. As it stands these two are just putting out way too much damage even for a HAV to withstand. The other issue is HAV ability of extended health points, from the max skill perspective, goes from 6482 total for the Gunlogi, and 7085 for the Madrugar. Then to top it off we have not delve into armor and shield hardeners activated. With the numbers as is, a forge gunner is much more effective at taking out an HAV compared to small turrets. I don't think the weapon should not be affective against HAV'S but their damage per clip is far more than the HAV can take. I won't go into too much detail because of the new Dev blog. So much of the damage output could change drastically once they come out with more information, but the critical number information is still there if they look into it. Well Halla look forward to hearing your thoughts and others too. Assault Forge Gun: Blast radius 2.10m clip size 4 max ammo 16 D: 900 S: 277.20 Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: Clip Size 4 Max ammo 20 D: 1571 S: N/A *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 832	Posted - 2014.10.18 21:49:00 - [33] - Quote Bump for great justice! Thanks for that input Gabriella, those are some good alternative ideas to my OP :) Alt of Halla Murr.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2014.10.18 23:26:00 - [34] - Quote I just want to comment on the Logi LAV part... or rather, why Logi LAVs are a fundamentally flawed idea. First, let's define the Logi LAV. I'll use the historical concept, as well as a little bit of EVE design philosophy. The idea behind the Logi LAV seems to have been a ground vehicle that could be used for remote repairing (IE, "logistical") support for both infantry and vehicles. To that end they were able to more easily fit remote repair mods, had resistance bonuses to enable them to survive on-field, and a turret damage reduction to discourage exploitation of the resist bonuses to make them unstoppable deathwagons. Of course, we all know what happened with that- the era of the Murder Taxi in its "I run people over" incarnation. So, obviously not exactly a good track record. But I'm sure everybody's wondering why the Logi LAV isn't just a difficult to balance vehicle, but is actually flawed from concept to execution. It's pretty simple. What, exactly, is a Logi LAV supposed to support? Is it infantry? Is it vehicles? Because on the whole it ultimately didn't do either very well. It was generally too fast to properly move with other ground vehicles- and infantry especially; the crew were exposed to all kinds of enemy fire, and it was generally accepted to be nigh-impossible to actually lock on to pretty much anything with the remote repair mod it came with. So we end up with something that outruns the assets it's supposed to support, but exposes its crew to excessive amounts of enemy fire in either application- but especially in reference to infantry support. Which then leads us to the fact that the risk/reward of Logi LAV usage is broken- either it's too risky because you're more likely to be shot out of the vehicle than actually be helpful, or again, it's too risky because the Logi LAV is too fragile to support friendly assets (such as Logi LAVs providing remote reps in an HAV battle), or it is too risk-free in unconventional uses... like the hated Murder Taxi. Ultimately what we end up with is the conclusion that something with greater durability- and less mobility- that also has a fully enclosed chassis is significantly more desirable than a Logi LAV. Call it a "Logi MAV", then. Such a vehicle would probably range between slightly faster and as fast as an HAV, but is much more durable than an LAV and is also fully enclosed. Our theoretical Logi MAV would likely have substantial transport capacity, enabling it to carry a squad. This squad, once dismounted, would then be supported by the remote repair functions of the vehicle... in theory, at least. Obviously, our Logi MAV is also more capable at supporting HAVs; it isn't going to outrun them nearly as easily as a Logi LAV, and it's going to have much greater ability to remain on-field to provide those highly desirable remote reps. Of course, this now then brings up a very interesting question- is a Logistics vehicle even something that could be well-designed to provide remote repair to infantry? Or would it be the case that Logi vehicle support to infantry comes in a different fashion, like mCRU spawns, or vehicle scans. Overall though, I think it's pretty clear that the Logi LAV is flawed, and should be completely discarded. It's almost certainly too hazardous for infantry support, and it's more likely to outrun its HAV brethren than it is to support them- even if it's on accident.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 165	Posted - 2014.10.19 23:54:00 - [35] - Quote If the logilav was reintroduced I think it should just be a normal lav without a turret but with a splash supply depot module that granted ammo/repairs based on the Meta level. It would be an active module. mobile Nanite supplier Basic Range: 5m Supply rate: same as a k2 nanohive Duration:20 Cool down: 60 Enhanced Range: 10m Supply rate: quantum hive + 40 rep/s Duration: 20 Cool down: 50 Pro Range: 12.5m Supply rate: ishukone hive+ 70 rep/s Duration: 20 Cool down: 30 Alternatively the lav could have an axis vehicle repair variant with a healing turret on it. Axis basic repair turret Range: 15m Rep: 80 Axis adv repair turret Range: 20m Rep: 100 Axis pro repair turret Range: 25m Rep: 125 NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:08:00 - [36] - Quote All I'm going to say is that I think I've pretty well covered why Logi LAVs are simply a platform that is fundamentally flawed and will never perform well at its intended function- especially not without making it more desirable to use it in unintended, and generally hated, ways. Though to append my previous thoughts on the matter, I will say that perhaps the greatest flaw of the Logi LAV is that it just can't carry very many passengers- having only a driver, gunner, and passenger. Compare this to a typical derpship with a whopping six passengers (2 gunners+4 warm clones), in addition to the pilot. Even an ADS is more capable of transport functionality with four passenger seats.


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