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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
14
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Posted - 2014.10.08 05:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Premise
The following ideas and workings are intended to provide a teamwork for a rebalancing/further balancing of vehicles - specifically focused on Dropships - and small turrets, including variants. Each part will be a separate post and will be linked to below for ease of access/future linking.
[url]Part 1: Vehicle Skill Tree[/url]
[url]Part 2: Assault Dropship Skills[/url]
[url]Part 3: Small Missile Turret Variants[/url]
[url]Part 4: Small Railgun Turret Variants[/url]
[url]Part 5: Small Blaster Turret Variants[/url]
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
14
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Posted - 2014.10.08 05:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
14
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Posted - 2014.10.08 05:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
14
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Posted - 2014.10.08 05:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reserved
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
14
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Posted - 2014.10.08 05:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reserved
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
18
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Posted - 2014.10.08 13:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I'm all for these chages. Only thing missing is fitting values.
Good point, I'd forgotten entirely about that! Not sure what to do about their fitting to be honest 
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:I'd add an Accelerated Missile too. Faster, longer range, high direct damage but low splash and radius. Specifically designed for AV, especially aerial combat. I'd like this much better than the burst.
Accelerated was a previous variant, but I felt that the Caldari skill granting missile speed effected that type quite nicely. Though please post some numbers for an Accelerated variant, would be good to see and I'd be happy to throw it into the OP! 
Atiim wrote:Your proposed Cycled Missile Launcher is broken.
Launching 5 missiles in a span of .04s makes the TTK of an Infantry disproportionately low.
Yes and no. The high damage compression makes it very powerful on a direct hit, but with a reduced splash radius and reduced splash damage over the burst (each individual splash does very little damage: less than any other explosive splash) it requires direct hits to apply the damage, which is not easy nor reliable to consider.
Consider additionally that a single direct hit is worth less than the Basic turret's splash damage, so unless multiple missiles land on target, it will do less damage than the Basic turret. That is the intention: it makes the Cycled variant very potent against vehicles in particular but makes it much less applicable against infantry.
Perhaps you can help me with the maths if you still consider this overpowered? Consider that the variant is supposed to do much more direct damage but have a drawback of much less infantry killing power. If the burst is too slow, it's DPS is too low to truly threaten vehicles, but the splash needs to be low enough to make killing infantry very difficult.
A side effect of the Cycled variant makes it a very good strafing run weapon, because you can fire and forget, hoping for random direct hits as you fly/drive past quickly. Though that is hardly reliable...
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
24
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Posted - 2014.10.08 14:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:I'm not too fond of the cycled because it seems like they'd be good at everything, but I know they're a crowd favorite so perhaps something could be worked out. I'd rather just have the Accelerated for AV, Scattered for AI, and the regular as a multi-tool that's OK at everything.
I appreciate your other comments too, but I wanted to focus on this: what is it about the Cylced that makes you feel it would be too effective all-round? The burst splash damage is roughly equivalent/slightly weaker (roughly 17.5% weaker actually, which is what the Fragmented is on direct) than basic turrets.
Is it the high direct burst damage? Maybe we can reduce the splash radius further? Would that be a reasonable balancing factor?
A 1m splash radius (1.5m with Python 5) would be substantially smaller than currently (a 25% reduction on the basic turret radius) while still having much reduced splash damage.
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
29
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Posted - 2014.10.08 19:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Any other comments/criticisms?
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
29
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Posted - 2014.10.09 04:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
What do others think of these ideas? What about the possible changes I've suggested?
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
29
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Posted - 2014.10.09 14:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
The True Inferno wrote:All I want is my accelerate missiles back, and have them how they were pre 1.7, high speed missiles that did the same damage and splash but required more cpu/pg.
Aside from it being a pretty small request(!) what do you think about the turret variants and (more specifically because of your interest in accelerated missiles) the ADS skills, especially the Python granting missile travel speed?
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
35
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Posted - 2014.10.10 21:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thanks Kaeru. What do you think about the variant turrets?
Looking for more feedback from anyone who will spare me a minute. :P
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
38
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Posted - 2014.10.12 20:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thanks Gabriella, good to see some input. I do have to disagree with the 'dumb fire missiles not for anti-DS' notion: missiles are a good anti-air tool, even unguided - take my suggested Cycled turret, and with the suggested Python missile speed bonus, it would make a very dangerous anti-air and anti-ground vehicle weapon because travel speed is a large factor.
Honestly, all missiles should be faster because they just are.
As to your specific ideas:
Accelerated: yep, seems entirely reasonable. Can I ask your opinion on my suggested ideas? Not to be a ****, but I was hoping for input and feedback on what I had suggested.
Fragmented: again, seems perfectly reasonable. Again about my original suggestion, what do you think about a marginally higher ROF for the fragmented missiles, since it would be for a saturation type of bombardment where the basic turret would be more precise.
Cycled: I really like the idea of a small missile turret mimicking the large missile turret. Would you like to throw some numbers about?
Scattered/Compressed/Stabilised: all good ideas. Would you care to give me a hand with some numbers? I'm not especially experienced with blasters, mostly because they've been so worthless for so long previously.
Again, I would love to have some more feedback from people, especially those who have stated interest and/or reticence about the ideas in this thread. Hopefully Rattati sees this and considers it (a blue tag would stop me consistently bumping it )
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
46
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Posted - 2014.10.14 17:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
A small missile turret that works like the large missile turret? I'd love to see it, though I'm not certain on how to balance the numbers; too effective and the large missile is rendered obsolete (just get a LAV mounted small!) but not effective enough and it cannot perform the role intended.
manboar, what do you think about the Cycled variant that I suggested as part of my initial post? I think that might cover what you are thinking about for the small rapid missile turret.
As always, welcome more feedback and thoughts.
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
46
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Posted - 2014.10.14 21:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gabriella Grey wrote:Hey Halla, sorry it took me a while to reply to your numbers specifically. This isn't all just mostly about the skill tree and small missile turrets. When I have time I will post my thoughts on Rail turrets, Blaster turrets, forge guns, etc.
Heh, no worries, I greatly appreciate the time and effort you took to respond!
Gabriella Grey wrote:Caldari Assault Dropship +2% Damage Efficiency to Small missile and Small Rail turrets.
Gallente Assault Dropship +2% Damage Efficiency to Small Blasters and Small Plasma turrets.
Fair enough. Though I would consider this to be slightly below par with dropsuit skills: dropsuits have a role bonus (the one above is akin to the Commando bonus) but also have a racial bonus.
My original suggestion of ADS Role giving small turret damage across the board, with racial skills exemplifying specific turret/module efficacy. That's my feeling on the skill front anyway.
As far as this skill idea is concerned, I think it is reasonable, but could do with a Role bonus like the dropsuits do.
Gabriella Grey wrote:***(Amarri Logistic Dropship +3% Reduce respawn time MCRU per level.)***
Caldari Logistic Dropship +3% Increase Active Scanner range per level.
Gallente Logistic Dropship +3% Duration to Active Scanners per level.
These seem reasonable. Again, I'd probably go for some kind of role bonus being a cross-race bonus (maybe reduced cooldowns) with the above style specific bonuses for racial ships.
Gabriella Grey wrote:Caldari Enforcer HAV +3% Efficiency to Large Missiles and Large Rail turrets.
Gallente Enforcer HAV +3% Efficiency to Large Blasters and Large Plasma turrets.
Again, reasonable.
Gabriella Grey wrote:Caldari Scout LAV (open to suggestions)
Gallente Scout LAV (open to suggestions)
Caldari Logistic LAV (open to suggestions)
Gallente Logistic LAV (open to suggestions)
I'd probably suggest Scanner bonuses to the Scout LAVs and module cooldown bonuses to the LLAVs.
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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Halla Murr
Skullbreakers
46
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Posted - 2014.10.14 21:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gabriella Grey wrote:Cycled Small Missile Turret:
Looks good.
Damage compression seems perfectly reasonable and the small clip size combined with the ROF and reload keeps the DPS reasonable. If I understand correctly, your DPS figures are as follows:
D: 583.3 | 700 | 758.3
S: 291.7 | 371.7 | 516.7
DPClip: Over 3 seconds (5 x 0.6 = 3 seconds to fire all shots)
D: 1750 | 2100 | 2275
S: 875 | 1155 | 1550
Takes roughly 48s to empty the reserve ammunition; 52.2s with max ammo and reload skills.
My only small gripe would be that 1.9m radius might be a little much. My feeling is that the high direct DPS and compression should further sacrifice splash killing power, though this would be something that would need jiggering about with.
Overall, seems like a perfectly useful and balanced turret! +1
Gabriella Grey wrote:Fragmented Small Missile Turret:
Almost identical DPS to the basic turret, which is great and the focus is on the increased splash radius. I like your idea of reducing the clip size, which makes it much less useful in a direct damage dealing capacity.
[quote=Gabriella Grey]Accelerated Small Missile Turret:
With the suggested range for the Cycled/Fragmented, I think this turret is lacking: a 200m optimal is already well beyond a dropships rendering distance for anything but HAVs and DSs. The only real benefit it has is the faster missile, which is somewhat lacking when the target at ~300m is going to be so small. I'd probably say that a higher ROF, lower damage and larger clip would help, but not really sure.
Main of Kallas Hallytyr. ADS, Logistics, Scout, Commando and Assault.
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