I like the idea of droppable spawn points. However I also like the concept of battle lines, territory taken meaning something tactically, pushing people back, etc...

And I honestly feel like the current drop uplink mechanic hurts this.

The current mechanic DOES encourage uplink spam (which our ps3s and netcode just LOVE). That in turn discourages strategic uplink placement. And it ruins the concept of taking control of territory for assaulting the next part of the map. It makes the game lose a ton of tactical and strategic depth.

Basically I think we need a bit more brain power required for good uplink usage.

So my suggestion is this:
How about uplink tethering? As in - links create a chain. Uplinks outside of x meters of another uplink are inactive. Any CRU (mobile included) being within those x meters causes the link to become active. Any active link within x meters of a link likewise activates it. Range would probably be based on the cost of said uplink and I would bet that racial modifiers could affect the distance of the link (I'm looking at you Amar)

Killing one in a chain renders all others behind it (no link to a cru ya know) inoperative until the chain is restored.

Mobile CRUs in vehicles being able to instantly activate a link will give more depth to all vehicle usage (especially if your team has a link in enemy lines they didnt notice.) Etc.

It would be prudent to add more CRUS at strategic locations of the map to generate actual battle lines and engagement areas. And of course the distance they can be placed would be reasonably long (30 meters? no way... more like within 75 meters) Due to all logis having an uplink limit it would prevent cluster spams of 15 uplinks on one spot.

Strategic link placement will start to matter again.

my 2 isk.

I think I prefer the idea proposed by some of the members of the CPM a couple weeks back.

Dramatically decrease time to spawn for an uplink
Each deployed uplink only gives a single spawn before being exhausted
Increase amount of carried uplinks by 5-10 depending on tier with the Amarr Logi having a bonus to the number carried

This discourages "tourist" fits where someone simply spawns an uplink suit throws them down and then goes back to their main role. It makes the deployment of Uplinks a more active process and genuinely makes them an active job that someone has to keep up with during the course of the match.

Another way to reduce spam, also being discussed in the linked thread, is to rails the CPU/PG cost of uplinks. Doing so makes them harder to fit and thus less likely to be used casually by those who are not electing to make active spawn maintenance a key part of their primary role on field.


Cross

I agree with most of your post but this is just a terrible idea. People who spam uplinks don't care about combat efficiency. They make suits designed to solely spam links. This doesn't affect them at all while it hurts people who fit a single uplink to be used strategically.

I agree with most of your post but this is just a terrible idea. People who spam uplinks don't care about combat efficiency. They make suits designed to solely spam links. This doesn't affect them at all while it hurts people who fit a single uplink to be used strategically.

I like the idea of droppable spawn points. However I also like the concept of battle lines, territory taken meaning something tactically, pushing people back, etc...

And I honestly feel like the current drop uplink mechanic hurts this.

The current mechanic DOES encourage uplink spam (which our ps3s and netcode just LOVE). That in turn discourages strategic uplink placement. And it ruins the concept of taking control of territory for assaulting the next part of the map. It makes the game lose a ton of tactical and strategic depth.

Basically I think we need a bit more brain power required for good uplink usage.

So my suggestion is this:
How about uplink tethering? As in - links create a chain. Uplinks outside of x meters of another uplink are inactive. Any CRU (mobile included) being within those x meters causes the link to become active. Any active link within x meters of a link likewise activates it. Range would probably be based on the cost of said uplink and I would bet that racial modifiers could affect the distance of the link (I'm looking at you Amar)

Killing one in a chain renders all others behind it (no link to a cru ya know) inoperative until the chain is restored.

Mobile CRUs in vehicles being able to instantly activate a link will give more depth to all vehicle usage (especially if your team has a link in enemy lines they didnt notice.) Etc.

It would be prudent to add more CRUS at strategic locations of the map to generate actual battle lines and engagement areas. And of course the distance they can be placed would be reasonably long (30 meters? no way... more like within 75 meters) Due to all logis having an uplink limit it would prevent cluster spams of 15 uplinks on one spot.

Strategic link placement will start to matter again.

my 2 isk.

TL;DR
up-links are necessary to keep the battles moving or else its a case of 2 things.. being CRU camped or being pushed all the way back to redline with no chance to get back into the game.. while with uplinks you can place them stragically to stay in the game and get some good fights in a concentrated area/point.. WITHOUT UPLINKS THE GAME GOES STALE!

There is a saying in the Marine Corps:

It only takes one a**hole to f*ck things up for the rest of us. One in every ten is that A**hole.

I think expending the uplinks like ammunition is the best way to go. that way you throw an uplink and a blueberry pops in, uplink goes away. in order to maintain uplinks in an area you have to maintain control of the area. Make it so nanohives will not replenish uplinks but Supply depots will, and make a 2-uplink deployed at a time hard limit per suit and suddenly there is a tactical value to uplinks rather than a lazy lemming approach. Most players want the lazy lemming easy warpoints. making the uplinks expendable will make them more high-value in squads. "I need to respawn, drop me a link!"

Make certain links squad-only and suddenly you dont have to worry about some idiot blueberry expending your squadmate's respawns in the field. for more general-use, if you don't like the whole ammo links, then make it so the team can have four. one down per suit, and they exist until you drop another one or until they are destroyed. if more links are deployed they autodestruct.

there's too many damned links on the field anyway.

Of a similar bent, nanohives. make them ONE PER CUSTOMER but MUCH longer-lasting. that way you can't have some idiot park in a four rep hive cluster. he gets ONE. if he wants another, the old one will pop when he deploys the new one.

make it so hives and uplinks become tactical assets that you must place carefully rather than simple fire-and-forget warpoint batteries.

you should actually read a post sometime.

With uplink spam the game lags out and turns into a rubber band slog that performs poorly, has sh*t framerate and oh yeah, becomes a lemming rush, which is about as interesting as chewing on glass shard donuts.

People actually aren't asking to remove links, but to change them so they aren't simply WP farming tools.

it dosnt as CCP have yet to find out the real reason why the game lags and they have been unable to recreate the lag due to uplinks and other equipment being spam deployed around depo's

There is a saying in the Marine Corps:

It only takes one a**hole to f*ck things up for the rest of us. One in every ten is that A**hole.

I think expending the uplinks like ammunition is the best way to go. that way you throw an uplink and a blueberry pops in, uplink goes away. in order to maintain uplinks in an area you have to maintain control of the area. Make it so nanohives will not replenish uplinks but Supply depots will, and make a 2-uplink deployed at a time hard limit per suit and suddenly there is a tactical value to uplinks rather than a lazy lemming approach. Most players want the lazy lemming easy warpoints. making the uplinks expendable will make them more high-value in squads. "I need to respawn, drop me a link!"

Make certain links squad-only and suddenly you dont have to worry about some idiot blueberry expending your squadmate's respawns in the field. for more general-use, if you don't like the whole ammo links, then make it so the team can have four. one down per suit, and they exist until you drop another one or until they are destroyed. if more links are deployed they autodestruct.

there's too many damned links on the field anyway.

Of a similar bent, nanohives. make them ONE PER CUSTOMER but MUCH longer-lasting. that way you can't have some idiot park in a four rep hive cluster. he gets ONE. if he wants another, the old one will pop when he deploys the new one.

make it so hives and uplinks become tactical assets that you must place carefully rather than simple fire-and-forget warpoint batteries.

[quote=hfderrtgvcd]
Maybe instead limit the number of uplinks allowed per side at a given time? Maybe 10 uplinks per side? I'll agree that spamming is ridiculous, but don't discourage the 1 or 2 on a team trying to actually be productive.

Making deployed assets burn out faster, and thus require active rather than passive use (remove the fire and forget aspect) is exactly what the proposed method does. The 'ammo' idea is mechanically similar to this proposal with the exception that it allows for more than one spawn per link due to the way spawns are handled in the interface (have spoken to CCP about that mechanic, I started out with the idea that 1 per link would be best).

Granted some of the proposal aspects are more 'work-around' if compared directly to your suggestion but in many ways they are functionally the same, and the discrepancies are largely a matter of honing for best performance within the engine.

0.02 ISK
Cross

I agree with most of your post but this is just a terrible idea. People who spam uplinks don't care about combat efficiency. They make suits designed to solely spam links. This doesn't affect them at all while it hurts people who fit a single uplink to be used strategically.

Simple guideline for server side changes

This is not comprehensive, but as a general trend if an idea only alters numeric values within preexisting functions, it is likely something that can be done. If an idea introduces an entire new mechanic or method of object behavior, it is quite possible that is a client side change.

Just presenting this so that everyone can focus their ideas and creative suggestions in on stuff that is more likely to be an actionable option rather than a "maybe for Legion" option.

Cheers,
Cross

what would you say the chances are of us getting a client side patch?

They are in direct relation to the revenue generated by Dust.
CCP does not share their financial records with the CPM, but as a player/individual it is my impression that we are in the ballpark of sustainability but not heavy profit. If Dust begins to make a substantial profit once again then client patches become possible because more staff can be hired/allocated for the project thus providing all the proper skill sets required to do a client patch.

There is a lot of material currently on hold unless/until a client patch can happen again. That being the case it is anyones guess which items would make it during a patch (or even within the first few patches should ongoing patching become a reality). In essence what this means is that any changes we want to see sooner rather than "soonTM" should focus on server side solutions rather than client side reworks. (Hence the nature of most of my proposals and feedback threads, because I focus hotfix compatible items so we can have them in game in the near term rather than waiting until some unknown future date).

Cheers,
Cross

Thanks for the detailed response

First +1 OP for creative thinking and attempting to constructively solve a problem that you see.

Second, I hate to rain on your parade but many of the aspects of what you are proposing would require fundamental game system rebuilds because of the mechanics they'd be changing (mCRUs, Uplinks, CRU placement <-- All actually separate systems in the code AFAIK and that makes forcing them to interact require the creation of an entire new system).

Third, you know the most notorious instances of spam? Those around objectives and supply depots, they could still exist under the proposed system. Now, grated, the depot spam would be easier to deactivate but that would still leave a swarm of inert items deployed which could A) be reactivated and B) would actually increase server load because now the system is checking the status of all of those items constantly to see if they are "on" or "off" not simply marking them as "present", thus unless total links used were cut by more than half it is entirely possible this would be a net loss for performance.

Outright stopping spam is hard/unlikely, discouraging it so that it is reduced/no longer worthwhile is more attainable and that is what the CPM proposal aims to do. Reducing the number of spawns per link (spawn time remains the same btw) and increasing the number of links carried, but keeping max active at the current ~2 means links are used up and removed from the field rapidly and thus spam is less persistent even if someone decides to spam.

Another way to reduce spam, also being discussed in the linked thread, is to rails the CPU/PG cost of uplinks. Doing so makes them harder to fit and thus less likely to be used casually by those who are not electing to make active spawn maintenance a key part of their primary role on field.

Combining reduced spawns per link, with increased CPU/PG to fit links reduces the potential rewards for spam (because the links burn out faster) the ease of spam (because the links require more to fit) and the duration of spam (again because the links burn out faster). Will this stop the depot swap spam entirely? No. Will it stop rooftop nets via Dropship entirely? No.
But it will require those to be actively maintained if they are to exist on field, those clusters will still be easy to clear.

These changes also give the Amarr Logi a more defined and meaningful role on the field by shifting uplink placement into uplink maintenance. The player stays in the suit to actively re-deploy expended links, those links have faster spawn times due to the Amarr racial skill and overall the Amarr racial starts to become meaningful rather than mostly novel.

0.02 ISK
Cross