DUST Search - [Hotfix Echo] Commando class

Commander Noctus wrote:

shaman oga wrote:

Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:

Commando also gets a damage bonus for using near all of that factions weapons and can carry at least two light weapons making them more effective then the Sentinel with one forge gun who is easy pickings for other infantry. Assault gets a bonus for only one weapon and a pretty meager bonus at that. Minmatar Assault gets a small clip size for the Combat Rifle meanwhile Minmatar Commando gets a bonus for projectile weapons and explosives which also includes swarm launchers and mass driver which are both devastating weapons in the right hands.

1) You forget the recent sidearm buff.
2) Without damage mod on a boundless CR, damage per clip of minmando is 1817, dmg per clip of an assault is 2064.
3) Min assault can fit AV nades
4) All weapons can be devastating in the right hands, i don't want to say commando is useless, i have both proto minmando and proto min assault, i have fun with both, but assault is technically better in everything.

1) A Light weapon and Sidearm are still worse than two Light weapons, both for slaying or AV, or both at the same time.
2) Per clip is not a good comparison, since the Assault automatically gets 25% shots per clip and would need to land every single one of those bonus shots to reach 2064 dmg/clip. Consider that the Minmando deals more damage in a shorter time (and does not need to be as accurate).
3) AV Grenades are limited to 2 unless you are using a nanohive, which the commando can copy but with light weapons that go long range. Swarms are much more useful on the Minmando, both ammo-wise and damage wise than AV. Also, you can have two swarms if you wanted.
4) While all weapons can be "devastating in the right hands", having a healthy damage boost makes that weapon even more lethal.

"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"

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shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2882	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:04:00 - [1] - Quote Along with the logistic class, commando class need a rework. Its role it's overlapping the assault role, the problem is that assault can be better in everything than a commando. P Take a look at both these quick fit i made: Min assault fit Min assault stats Minmando fit Minmando stats The assault have: +110,45 more eHP +3 armor rep same shield recharge delay -1.33 second shield depleted delay (and have more shield extenders) +0.76 m/s movement speed +0.68 m/s srafe speed +1.11 m/s sprint speed +52.5 stamina +10.5 stamina regen -9 scan profile -4.5 scan precision same scan radius Non written bonus: Smaller hitbox Grenade slot Better capacity (due to -25% bonus on light & side arm and nades) The commando have: +10% damage +130 melee damage 2 light weapon slot Is it worth to use a commando over an assault? No, unless you are AV with a SL/PLC, but with the buff to sidearms, it's pretty safe to use an assault even for AV. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2882	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:04:00 - [2] - Quote R PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2185	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:09:00 - [3] - Quote You can swap out the shield extenders for damage mods and have it do insane amounts of damage. This is the purpose of the commando. Dust was real! I was there!
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2882	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:12:00 - [4] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: You can swap out the shield extenders for damage mods and have it do insane amounts of damage. This is the purpose of the commando. This is only a test fit to compare tanking capacity and resources in similar fits. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 154	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:14:00 - [5] - Quote Commando also gets a damage bonus for using near all of that factions weapons and can carry at least two light weapons making them more effective then the Sentinel with one forge gun who is easy pickings for other infantry. Assault gets a bonus for only one weapon and a pretty meager bonus at that. Minmatar Assault gets a small clip size for the Combat Rifle meanwhile Minmatar Commando gets a bonus for projectile weapons and explosives which also includes swarm launchers and mass driver which are both devastating weapons in the right hands.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1296	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:48:00 - [6] - Quote People overlook the benefit of 2 light weapons.... If you have 2 highly SP invested weapons and a commando suit it can work, and quite well at that - Mass Driver/Plasma Cannon/Laser/Sniper + Rifle = Suppression - Shotgun/Plasma Cannon/Rifle + Rifle = CQC Slaying - Swarms/Plasma Cannon + Rifle = AV - Dual weapons = Like a Boss Most light weapons have good stopping power, combine 2 of these well and it will work There are a few other setups but the ones above would give you the most effect IMO Buffing a suit that carries 2 Light weapons could be a really bad idea.... Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2883	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:09:00 - [7] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: Commando also gets a damage bonus for using near all of that factions weapons and can carry at least two light weapons making them more effective then the Sentinel with one forge gun who is easy pickings for other infantry. Assault gets a bonus for only one weapon and a pretty meager bonus at that. Minmatar Assault gets a small clip size for the Combat Rifle meanwhile Minmatar Commando gets a bonus for projectile weapons and explosives which also includes swarm launchers and mass driver which are both devastating weapons in the right hands. 1) You forget the recent sidearm buff. 2) Without damage mod on a boundless CR, damage per clip of minmando is 1817, dmg per clip of an assault is 2064. 3) Min assault can fit AV nades 4) All weapons can be devastating in the right hands, i don't want to say commando is useless, i have both proto minmando and proto min assault, i have fun with both, but assault is technically better in everything. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4484	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:13:00 - [8] - Quote I have never gotten why Commandos don't have nades... It irks me the few times I am running my Minmando and I just want to flux something. You can always tell a Millford Minja
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2883	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:15:00 - [9] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: People overlook the benefit of 2 light weapons.... If you have 2 highly SP invested weapons and a commando suit it can work, and quite well at that - Mass Driver/Plasma Cannon/Laser/Sniper + Rifle = Suppression - Shotgun/Plasma Cannon/Rifle + Rifle = CQC Slaying - Swarms/Plasma Cannon + Rifle = AV - Dual weapons = Like a Boss Most light weapons have good stopping power, combine 2 of these well and it will work There are a few other setups but the ones above would give you the most effect IMO Buffing a suit that carries 2 Light weapons could be a really bad idea.... I've 2 different commando in 2 different char, both racially fitted, i don't say they are not good, it's really fun to play, especially with galmando in plc+ar combo, but it miss that something, surely a resource buff is needed. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 186	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:29:00 - [10] - Quote Commandos should get built in reps like 5 hp/s, so i can put something else on there like a kin cat. All my commandos have reps and damage mods, thats all.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7676	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:57:00 - [11] - Quote I think Commandos should be constructed with more Suppression and AV roles in mind. I don't mind the damage buff that they get honestly, and true, Assaults can do things a bit better generally than a Commando but that's the drawback of having two weapons. With the Commando I honestly don't care about adding more health as I already have a decent enough amount as long as Keep behind the assaults. Something's wrong when you regret Things that haven't happened yet
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3807	Posted - 2014.09.29 22:09:00 - [12] - Quote Question. Why leave out the reload speed bonus of commandos on that comparison list? I find the ability for quick re-engagements between reloads on both my Galmando Proto and Minmando Proto fits quite helpful. http://youtu.be/M6GGjpTQfFY?t=1m8s Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 83	Posted - 2014.09.30 01:46:00 - [13] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: Commando also gets a damage bonus for using near all of that factions weapons and can carry at least two light weapons making them more effective then the Sentinel with one forge gun who is easy pickings for other infantry. Assault gets a bonus for only one weapon and a pretty meager bonus at that. Minmatar Assault gets a small clip size for the Combat Rifle meanwhile Minmatar Commando gets a bonus for projectile weapons and explosives which also includes swarm launchers and mass driver which are both devastating weapons in the right hands. 1) You forget the recent sidearm buff. 2) Without damage mod on a boundless CR, damage per clip of minmando is 1817, dmg per clip of an assault is 2064. 3) Min assault can fit AV nades 4) All weapons can be devastating in the right hands, i don't want to say commando is useless, i have both proto minmando and proto min assault, i have fun with both, but assault is technically better in everything. 1) A Light weapon and Sidearm are still worse than two Light weapons, both for slaying or AV, or both at the same time. 2) Per clip is not a good comparison, since the Assault automatically gets 25% shots per clip and would need to land every single one of those bonus shots to reach 2064 dmg/clip. Consider that the Minmando deals more damage in a shorter time (and does not need to be as accurate). 3) AV Grenades are limited to 2 unless you are using a nanohive, which the commando can copy but with light weapons that go long range. Swarms are much more useful on the Minmando, both ammo-wise and damage wise than AV. Also, you can have two swarms if you wanted. 4) While all weapons can be "devastating in the right hands", having a healthy damage boost makes that weapon even more lethal. Gallente Assault since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1227	Posted - 2014.09.30 01:54:00 - [14] - Quote The only things that I see wrong with Commando's are that they need a grenade slot and more stamina or an increased stamina rep . But that's just me . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2886	Posted - 2014.09.30 08:08:00 - [15] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: shaman oga wrote: Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: Commando also gets a damage bonus for using near all of that factions weapons and can carry at least two light weapons making them more effective then the Sentinel with one forge gun who is easy pickings for other infantry. Assault gets a bonus for only one weapon and a pretty meager bonus at that. Minmatar Assault gets a small clip size for the Combat Rifle meanwhile Minmatar Commando gets a bonus for projectile weapons and explosives which also includes swarm launchers and mass driver which are both devastating weapons in the right hands. 1) You forget the recent sidearm buff. 2) Without damage mod on a boundless CR, damage per clip of minmando is 1817, dmg per clip of an assault is 2064. 3) Min assault can fit AV nades 4) All weapons can be devastating in the right hands, i don't want to say commando is useless, i have both proto minmando and proto min assault, i have fun with both, but assault is technically better in everything. 1) A Light weapon and Sidearm are still worse than two Light weapons, both for slaying or AV, or both at the same time. 2) Per clip is not a good comparison, since the Assault automatically gets 25% shots per clip and would need to land every single one of those bonus shots to reach 2064 dmg/clip. Consider that the Minmando deals more damage in a shorter time (and does not need to be as accurate). 3) AV Grenades are limited to 2 unless you are using a nanohive, which the commando can copy but with light weapons that go long range. Swarms are much more useful on the Minmando, both ammo-wise and damage wise than AV. Also, you can have two swarms if you wanted. 4) While all weapons can be "devastating in the right hands", having a healthy damage boost makes that weapon even more lethal. I really don't miss a second light weapon when i'm playing scout, assault or heavy (i miss a second weapon when logi sometimes). Even if per clip is not a good comparison, you can can see that assault potentially can deal more damage than commando with the same weapon. AV nades are better than people think, the problem is that nobody use them because nobody is AVing in the old school way. Regarding the damage buff, on most of the assaults you can sacrifice a little tank for 1 or 2 damage mod and reach almost the same amount of damage and have more or less the same HP of a commando. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3303	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:53:00 - [16] - Quote The problem is that the commando falls between sentinels for AV and assault AV. It also falls similarly between assaults and sentinels for infantry killing. There are no clear advantages to the suit in either role but retaining the drawbacks of a heavy frame, no nades and the tightest pg/cpu fitting in the game. The problem lies in that because it is so very middle child of the dropsuits, it's hard to balance it without overshadowing the sentinel or assault roles. If we change the commando I would look at speed, or detection capabilities. Bluntly it matches assaults for HP, and that's not a bad spot considering that is without fitting tank modules. But the lackluster performance is primarily due to the fitting limitations, crap-ass detection, slow speed and huge hitbox. But we have to consider that the DPS bonus is a truly powerful advantage in the right hands. But I think more EHP/more offensive capacity should be off the table. As a suppression unit "between assault and sentinel" is a fair place to be.
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 274	Posted - 2014.09.30 12:40:00 - [17] - Quote I don't think commandos are in too bad a place. I think people are undervaluing the suits appeal, Reload Speed, Damage boost for racial weapons, 2 light weapons. There is strength in versatility. Sure you could run AV on an assault, however you are relegated to a sidearm for protection against infantry. You can have decent AV weapon plus light rifle for dual purpose. I still see threads saying how they are getting f'ed by infantry when trying to AV....WTF YOU THINK COMMMANDO WAS MADE FOR, ITS GOT 2 LIGHT WEAPONS BRO! The lack of customization is its weakness, but that doesn't mean the suit isn't viable. In fact im surprised they came out with the suit since is almost a heavy with not one but two light weapons slots. We know how we feel about heavies with light weapons. Now im not saying the commando is perfect but if there is anything to be looked upon - EHP amount compared to hitbox size.... (Since it is essentially a stripped sentinel suit maybe more EHP or extra movement speed to account for hitbox size) - Recharge rate/Innate rep for sustainability. -Perhaps an extra module slot I admit that proto commandos are not worth the cost of an extra slot. Sure it helps not big enough. I see grenade slots are requested and i would love to have fluxes on my mass driver fit. However, i believe we can't have too much ability in one suit. I think this is a fair asset to take away....I carry mass driver on my min commando if i need nades I have received the honorable title of NOOB COMMANDO for my mass driver legacy I don't want to make this post too long but i can highlight everything a commando is good for vs assault. Also as someone has stated before the commando is king of suppression bar none! 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1823	Posted - 2014.09.30 13:01:00 - [18] - Quote I used to be a commando user a long time ago but I speced out of it when we got that old old respec way back when. This is just my personal opinion but the biggest things that made me dislike them was the fact that they were a heavy class. Big hitbox and slow speed. The slow speed was a major off put for me. That and the fact that back then the regeneration of the suit was very weak too. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
jNs Vit4l THE 300 SPARTANS 30	Posted - 2014.09.30 13:27:00 - [19] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Along with the logistic class, commando class need a rework. Its role it's overlapping the assault role, the problem is that assault can be better in everything than a commando. P Take a look at both these quick fit i made: Min assault fit Min assault stats Minmando fit Minmando stats The assault have: +110,45 more eHP +3 armor rep same shield recharge delay -1.33 second shield depleted delay (and have more shield extenders) +0.76 m/s movement speed +0.68 m/s srafe speed +1.11 m/s sprint speed +52.5 stamina +10.5 stamina regen -9 scan profile -4.5 scan precision same scan radius Non written bonus: Smaller hitbox Grenade slot Better capacity (due to -25% bonus on light & side arm and nades) The commando have: +10% damage +130 melee damage 2 light weapon slot Is it worth to use a commando over an assault? No, unless you are AV with a SL/PLC, but with the buff to sidearms, it's pretty safe to use an assault even for AV. On this I would suggest we get a bonus change on commando drosuits. Give them some sort of AV + Lightweapon bonus, because only Minmatar commando actually takes advantage of the bonus av+anti infantry wise. I would suggest +5% to AV based weapons dmg per lev / +3% dmg to specific category of light weapon CEO of The 300 Spartans! Leader FC of J PLATOON VIT4L Min / Gal Fw FW FTW!
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2886	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:31:00 - [20] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I used to be a commando user a long time ago but I speced out of it when we got that old old respec way back when. This is just my personal opinion but the biggest things that made me dislike them was the fact that they were a heavy class. Big hitbox and slow speed. The slow speed was a major off put for me. That and the fact that back then the regeneration of the suit was very weak too. The problem about this is that HP and mobility are not tied, with heavies you have a great speed penalty but on the other hand you have a large HP pool, with commando you have slightly better mobility than heavies but you also can't rely on similar HP pool. You also can't counter it due to the lack of slots and pg/cpu. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7685	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:33:00 - [21] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: I used to be a commando user a long time ago but I speced out of it when we got that old old respec way back when. This is just my personal opinion but the biggest things that made me dislike them was the fact that they were a heavy class. Big hitbox and slow speed. The slow speed was a major off put for me. That and the fact that back then the regeneration of the suit was very weak too. The problem about this is that HP and mobility are not tied, with heavies you have a great speed penalty but on the other hand you have a large HP pool, with commando you have slightly better mobility than heavies but you also can't rely on similar HP pool. You also can't counter it due to the lack of slots and pg/cpu. So what are you using the suit to do? Because the Commando definitely is not a solo'ing suit which should be obvious. Something's wrong when you regret Things that haven't happened yet
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2886	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:46:00 - [22] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: shaman oga wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: I used to be a commando user a long time ago but I speced out of it when we got that old old respec way back when. This is just my personal opinion but the biggest things that made me dislike them was the fact that they were a heavy class. Big hitbox and slow speed. The slow speed was a major off put for me. That and the fact that back then the regeneration of the suit was very weak too. The problem about this is that HP and mobility are not tied, with heavies you have a great speed penalty but on the other hand you have a large HP pool, with commando you have slightly better mobility than heavies but you also can't rely on similar HP pool. You also can't counter it due to the lack of slots and pg/cpu. So what are you using the suit to do? Because the Commando definitely is not a solo'ing suit which should be obvious. I'm asking you the same question, i use it when i'm squadded, when we already have an edge over the enemies or if i need it in particular situations. It should be more viable for a generalist playstile, without a nerf on specialized gameplay tactics. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
rahzo sn91 Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.10.01 22:18:00 - [23] - Quote I would be happy with just giving the commando the med frame hitbox. I feel like the suit is a bullet magnet that is caught between being a med and heavy frame. I do like the idea of adding some ewar to the suit.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3204	Posted - 2014.10.01 22:26:00 - [24] - Quote I think it would be a safe start to give Commandos the same slot layout as Sentinels, with an appropriate increase of PG/CPU to match. Fitting is...extremely bland and difficult to work with, particularly on Calmmando due to its lack of a low slot despite having a decent chunk of armor. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3341	Posted - 2014.10.02 07:31:00 - [25] - Quote EHP isn't the problem. Hitbox is iffy. The problem is that it is bonused to be a damage dealer, full stop. It has no clearly defined role besides "shell out pain rapidly. Is it a frontline suit? Is it rearguard support? Infiltratiin/disruption? What we have is a suit that is a rapid damage delivery platform that cannot move fast to deliver, is pitifully easy to hit and doesn't have a tank big enough to make up for the flaws. It is an interesting piece of design, but without a specified role it will always be the halfway house of dropsuits, between assaults and sentinels but not really standing out on their own. They can do assault infantry killing or sentinel ish AV but not as well as the others. The commando bonus is nice, but it's outperformed by other armors. It's a heavy frame trying to be.an assault and it doesn't do the job as.well. Don't get me wrong, it iss fun and useful, but the times where a commando are more useful than an assault or sentinel are few and far between.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 53	Posted - 2014.10.02 10:17:00 - [26] - Quote They are suppose to be attack oriented I do think they need a buff though. Like a grenade slot with the ability to throw them further. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 188	Posted - 2014.10.02 10:17:00 - [27] - Quote They are suppose to be attack oriented I do think they need a buff though. Like a grenade slot with the ability to throw them further. Or even better 2 grenade slots! The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1859	Posted - 2014.10.02 11:00:00 - [28] - Quote First, we must decide what commandos are supposed to do. Are they heavy assaults? What is their role on the battlefield? Only then can we figure out how to implement them. Simple solution to me would be give them an extra slot with cpu/pg to match, but that seems more of a Band-Aid than a solution. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3345	Posted - 2014.10.02 11:47:00 - [29] - Quote They need a CLEARLY defined role or they cannot be balanced. It will always be bandaids until a role is defined that is not "cuz it's kinda a cool concept."
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2892	Posted - 2014.10.02 11:49:00 - [30] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: First, we must decide what commandos are supposed to do. Are they heavy assaults? What is their role on the battlefield? Only then can we figure out how to implement them. Simple solution to me would be give them an extra slot with cpu/pg to match, but that seems more of a Band-Aid than a solution. The problem is that assault and commando roles are the same. A little rework is needed, especially on cpu/pg, i don't think commando need a overall change, just an improvement, to be better than assaults in certain situations (e.g area defense), where you don't need to move too much. While heavies are more static and better at point defense, assault have a better mobility and they can move from point to point and chase enemies, commando should be able to move faster for a shorter time (assault mobility, heavy stamina or current commando stamina), allowing them to easily patrol a bigger area than a heavy but without the capability of an assault. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS



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