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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
12
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Posted - 2014.09.11 13:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Can Hotfix Delta please deal with the fact that you can't use a heavy weapon in a light weapon slot, but can use a light weapon in a heavy slot?
Lately I've noticed a lot more proto heavies sat on top of towers using sniper rifles. After 3 headshots using my ADV tactical sniper rifle (with a complex damage mod), I still won't have taken their shields off, and by the time I reload, they've got their shields back to full. I sat for over half a match trying to take out a heavy who was on top of a tower. They didn't move once. Why would they need to when my headshots weren't doing any real damage to them?!
Everyone seems to complain that redline snipers can't be countered, but I've yet to find a spot that can't be counter-sniped from some location or other, so rail rifles, scrambler rifles and sniper rifles can easy take out a redline sniper. Scout suits are squishy. Even with armour plates, I get taken out by one shot from various weapons.
How can a heavy who is obviously using the best armour and shield upgrades be countered when they're sat on a tower or in the redline?
Tl;dr: snipers are easily countered, until the player is using a heavy suit and are sat in a hard to reach spot |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2720
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Posted - 2014.09.11 16:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Commandos are heavies with two light weapons. Theyre about as tanky as a good assault. The caldari ones have fast shield regen.
And I have bad news: if they take light weapons away from sentinels and heavy frames they will simply swap to a damage modded forge gun. So you will still get pasted from the rooftop anyway.
Your request is not a solution. There is a reason CCP doesnt do this.
Firstly it makes no sense that a dropsuit that can manhandle a crew served weapon solo cant pick up a rifle.
Second there are no medium range heavy weapons. We have extreme range and danger-stupid. Until that midrange gap gets plugged its often better to use a rifle than try to chase someone who is faster with an HMG. |
Dust User
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
600
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Posted - 2014.09.11 17:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2721
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Posted - 2014.09.11 19:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dust User wrote:Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares.
There is that.
Except for commandos.
Those are comedy gold. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3163
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Posted - 2014.09.11 20:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Dust User wrote:Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares. There is that. Except for commandos. Those are comedy gold.
Killed a guy in his tank with my Standard Plasma Cannon using a Commando suit.
I get rage mail from him calling me a noob for using a light weapon on a heavy.
Now THAT's comedy gold.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2723
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Posted - 2014.09.11 20:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Dust User wrote:Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares. There is that. Except for commandos. Those are comedy gold. Killed a guy in his tank with my Standard Plasma Cannon using a Commando suit. I get rage mail from him calling me a noob for using a light weapon on a heavy. Now THAT's comedy gold.
You too?
CONGRATULATIONS!
Now you know why I love commando suits. |
Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
13
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Posted - 2014.09.11 22:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dust User wrote:Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares.
Not true. I've seen heavies causing chaos by sniping from behind the redline, on top of towers etc. where it takes a group of snipers firing simultaneously to get them down.
I'm still not sure how a heavy was placing a new nanohives out every 30 seconds without dying or going to a supply depot, but that's a different matter. (And yes, it was a heavy and not a commando, and no there was nobody on the tower with him, nor was there an uplink.) |
Exceos
ICE-9 PROJECT
1
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Posted - 2014.09.11 23:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dude i use kalakiota tactical also but most of the time i use my charge on heavies and have no problem taking them out. So stop bitching. |
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1307
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Posted - 2014.09.11 23:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:Dust User wrote:Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares. Not true. I've seen heavies causing chaos by sniping from behind the redline, on top of towers etc. where it takes a group of snipers firing simultaneously to get them down. I'm still not sure how a heavy was placing a new nanohives out every 30 seconds without dying or going to a supply depot, but that's a different matter. (And yes, it was a heavy and not a commando, and no there was nobody on the tower with him, nor was there an uplink.)
The thing about heavies with light weapons, is once you've got the suit and the weapon, that's as good as it'll ever get. You cant use equipment with them, you often don't have a decent sidearm, damage mods or even av weapons... you're just a slow bricked suit without even equipment. They're popular for being able to survive, not for being genuinely good.
Heavies with light weapons are sub-par choices.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Atiim
12064
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Posted - 2014.09.11 23:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Dust User wrote:Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares. There is that. Except for commandos. Those are comedy gold. Commandos are no laughing matter, especially in PC.
Get someone on high ground with an Assault Mass Driver, Swarm Launcher, and some nanohives and you'll be massive threat to any squad in the city, even Heavies.
DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
13
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Posted - 2014.09.12 04:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Exceos wrote:Dude i use kalakiota tactical also but most of the time i use my charge on heavies and have no problem taking them out. So stop bitching.
I used my adv tactical with a complex damage mod and didn't even take shields off after 3 headshots. And by the time I reloaded, their sheilds were back up.
Mina Longstrike wrote:The thing about heavies with light weapons, is once you've got the suit and the weapon, that's as good as it'll ever get. You cant use equipment with them, you often don't have a decent sidearm, damage mods or even av weapons... you're just a slow bricked suit without even equipment. They're popular for being able to survive, not for being genuinely good.
I know you're not meant to have equipment, but this heavy (Caldari Heavy Frame) had nanohives. Loads of them. I checked the market place, there was no reason they should have been able to drop 1, far less the number they did, and doing some maths on the max amount of shields and armour they should have had, there's no way I should have been unable to take them out with 3 headshots (which were easy to line up considering the guy didn't even flinch when I was shooting him, and because I was directly across from him). I took out the pilot he landed with in 1 shot, so it wasn't like I was getting refraction. |
Chief-Shotty
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
202
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Posted - 2014.09.12 04:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
The guy fixed his heavy suit with a sniper ,thus he is a heavy sniper. Don't really see the problem here. Sure heavies with light weapons are annoying but realistically why can't a heavy use a light weapon. I would have problems with a small scout trying to bunny hop with a burst hmg(You think cloak shotgun scouts are annoying, just think of the possibility of cloak burst hmg scouts FUUUUUU!)
The guy has played the meta in his favor by and thus now here you are whining cause the guy is using a tactic to counter attackers like you. He thought, if i sniped on this roof with a scout suit i would get one shotted easy, but what if i can tank in a massive suit as a defense to other snipers......guess what that guy just did.
His Rock beat your scissors buddy..........not sure what you expect.
Tactics and Strategy are very OP..just ask every general in the history of warfare...heck Sun Tzu wrote a darn book about it
VERY GOOD READ TOO! You should order a copy from amazon.
8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion
Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears
OMG the Tears!! :)
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
13
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Posted - 2014.09.12 11:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
What I don't understand is why CCP want to neef snipers, when you can counter them no matter where they are sat in any map.
Their logic is that every role needs to be able to have a counter. This guy would have needed a forge gun to take him out, but you couldn't get a him due to the range limit.
If tactics are the thing that's OP, why are snipers being nerfed (again)? Sitting on the MCC, or behind the redline is a tactic. Same as cloaking with a shotgun and jihad cars are.
(I've heard stories of cloaked HMG players, but can't say whether they're true or not) |
Zindorak
1.U.P
900
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Posted - 2014.09.12 11:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Heavy snipers are scrubs
Pokemon master!
I suck at Tekken lol
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4227
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Posted - 2014.09.12 14:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:Can Hotfix Delta please deal with the fact that you can't use a heavy weapon in a light weapon slot, but can use a light weapon in a heavy slot?
Lately I've noticed a lot more proto heavies sat on top of towers using sniper rifles. After 3 headshots using my ADV tactical sniper rifle (with a complex damage mod), I still won't have taken their shields off, and by the time I reload, they've got their shields back to full. I sat for over half a match trying to take out a heavy who was on top of a tower. They didn't move once. Why would they need to when my headshots weren't doing any real damage to them?!
Everyone seems to complain that redline snipers can't be countered, but I've yet to find a spot that can't be counter-sniped from some location or other, so rail rifles, scrambler rifles and sniper rifles can easy take out a redline sniper. Scout suits are squishy. Even with armour plates, I get taken out by one shot from various weapons.
How can a heavy who is obviously using the best armour and shield upgrades be countered when they're sat on a tower or in the redline?
Tl;dr: snipers are easily countered, until the player is using a heavy suit and are sat in a hard to reach spot Sentinels were given a PG/CPU nerf with a corresponding fitting bonus for Heavy Weapons, so that they would have less PG/CPU to work with when fitting Light Weapons, without effecting their use of Heavy Weapons. You can debate whether this went far enough if you would like.
In Delta Sniper Rifles are getting a much larger Head Shot bonus, so you can counter sniper Sentinel Snipers more easily. (Heavy suits have much large Heads than other suits.)
A Caldary Commando would be a much better choice for a Sniper Suit than a Sentinel, as they have the 10% damage bonus and reload faster.
If you are sniping in a Scout Suit your objective is to make sure no one knows where you are. A ScoutGÇÖs Tank is to not get shot at in the first place. If you even have a suspicion that someone has located you, move to somewhere else. (I learned this type of sniping from my wife, who is one of the most paranoid people I know. She was great at it.)
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4227
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Posted - 2014.09.12 14:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Second there are no medium range heavy weapons. We have extreme range and danger-stupid. Until that midrange gap gets plugged its often better to use a rifle than try to chase someone who is faster with an HMG. I have been suggesting a Breach HMG that shoots large high damage rounds at rate of a round every 0.6 seconds. Medium range. Little or no dispersion. It would be less effective in close quarters but would actually give Sentinels a viable weapons in Manis Peak Domination.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4227
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Posted - 2014.09.12 14:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:I'm still not sure how a heavy was placing a new nanohives out every 30 seconds without dying or going to a supply depot, but that's a different matter. (And yes, it was a heavy and not a commando, and no there was nobody on the tower with him, nor was there an uplink.) Did you just say a Heavy was placing Nano Hives and it was not a Commando?
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4228
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Posted - 2014.09.12 14:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:What I don't understand is why CCP want to nerf snipers, when you can counter them no matter where they are sat in any map.
Their logic is that every role needs to be able to have a counter. This guy would have needed a forge gun to take him out, but you couldn't get a him due to the range limit.
If tactics are the thing that's OP, why are snipers being nerfed (again)? Sitting on the MCC, or behind the redline is a tactic. Same as cloaking with a shotgun and jihad cars are.
(I've heard stories of cloaked HMG players, but can't say whether they're true or not) The fact that when you looked at the proposed Delta changes to Sniper Rifles all you saw was the range nerf, shows your lack of perspective. The range nerf is a balance for the massive Buff that Snipers are getting.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2746
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Posted - 2014.09.12 15:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Raptor Princess wrote:I'm still not sure how a heavy was placing a new nanohives out every 30 seconds without dying or going to a supply depot, but that's a different matter. (And yes, it was a heavy and not a commando, and no there was nobody on the tower with him, nor was there an uplink.) Did you just say a Heavy was placing Nano Hives and it was not a Commando? He had a supply buddy. Only possible way. Anything else would mean an exploit.
If the heavy was red then it was a commando and you were getting a HUD bug misreading the suit class. |
Rizlax Yazzax
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
412
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Raptor Princess wrote:Dust User wrote:Once again, a heavy with a light weapon is useless so who cares. Not true. I've seen heavies causing chaos by sniping from behind the redline, on top of towers etc. where it takes a group of snipers firing simultaneously to get them down. I'm still not sure how a heavy was placing a new nanohives out every 30 seconds without dying or going to a supply depot, but that's a different matter. (And yes, it was a heavy and not a commando, and no there was nobody on the tower with him, nor was there an uplink.)
Step one: Call dropship Step two: Land on/shoot at heavy. Step three: Win
As for the redline, suicide him if he's doing well. If he sucks, stop running in straight lines and go about your business. |
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
13
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Posted - 2014.09.14 02:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Raptor Princess wrote:I'm still not sure how a heavy was placing a new nanohives out every 30 seconds without dying or going to a supply depot, but that's a different matter. (And yes, it was a heavy and not a commando, and no there was nobody on the tower with him, nor was there an uplink.) Did you just say a Heavy was placing Nano Hives and it was not a Commando?
Yes. There was nobody up there with him - no uplink, I didn't take my eyes off him except to reload. I saw him drop more uplinks than it's possible to carry on a logi suit, far less a heavy.
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
13
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Posted - 2014.09.16 16:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why can't a light suit carry a HMG anyway? Humans can carry both snipers and HMGs easily enough... |
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1757
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Posted - 2014.09.16 16:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Commandos are heavies with two light weapons. Theyre about as tanky as a good assault. The caldari ones have fast shield regen.
And I have bad news: if they take light weapons away from sentinels and heavy frames they will simply swap to a damage modded forge gun. So you will still get pasted from the rooftop anyway.
Your request is not a solution. There is a reason CCP doesnt do this.
Firstly it makes no sense that a dropsuit that can manhandle a crew served weapon solo cant pick up a rifle.
Second there are no medium range heavy weapons. We have extreme range and danger-stupid. Until that midrange gap gets plugged its often better to use a rifle than try to chase someone who is faster with an HMG. A forge gun has less range, no zoom, slower ROF, and soon to be no splash. I'd rather them only hold the forge gun.
It makes perfect sense for heavies to be unable to manipulate rifles. They are built for massive strength to wield heavy weapons, meaning their dexterity is not nimble enough to work a rifle accurately.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Raptor Princess
ALLOTEC INC
13
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Posted - 2014.09.16 17:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Commandos are heavies with two light weapons. Theyre about as tanky as a good assault. The caldari ones have fast shield regen.
And I have bad news: if they take light weapons away from sentinels and heavy frames they will simply swap to a damage modded forge gun. So you will still get pasted from the rooftop anyway.
Your request is not a solution. There is a reason CCP doesnt do this.
Firstly it makes no sense that a dropsuit that can manhandle a crew served weapon solo cant pick up a rifle.
Second there are no medium range heavy weapons. We have extreme range and danger-stupid. Until that midrange gap gets plugged its often better to use a rifle than try to chase someone who is faster with an HMG. A forge gun has less range, no zoom, slower ROF, and soon to be no splash. I'd rather them only hold the forge gun. It makes perfect sense for heavies to be unable to manipulate rifles. They are built for massive strength to wield heavy weapons, meaning their dexterity is not nimble enough to work a rifle accurately.
It is also not tactical. Itt's scrubby.
Can you imagine 3 Amaar Sentiels MCC sniping with Thales? It would be carniage! |
Thokk Nightshade
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
499
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Posted - 2014.09.17 00:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Second there are no medium range heavy weapons. We have extreme range and danger-stupid. Until that midrange gap gets plugged its often better to use a rifle than try to chase someone who is faster with an HMG. I have been suggesting a Breach HMG that shoots large high damage rounds at rate of a round every 0.6 seconds. Medium range. Little or no dispersion. It would be less effective in close quarters but would actually give Sentinels a viable weapons in Manis Peak Domination.
Something like this? I came up with this concept a while back. It could be based off a Scrambler Rifle. Higher alpha damage but not anything close to the rate of fire of an AR, RR, ScR, or CR. But it has greater distance than an HMG.
Heavy midrange Rifle (single shot)
Damage - 220 HP RoF - 130 (approximately .46 seconds/shot) Optimal Range(100%) - 55 Effective Range(30%) - 90 Absolute Range(10%) - 200 Magazine Size - 47 Carried Ammo - 705 (15 Magazines) Reload Speed - 3.5 seconds Charge Up Time - 0.0 seconds Accuracy Rating - 57.00 CPU - 45 PG - 6 ISK - 3000
Now to discus the Automatic variant of the Heavy Midrange rifle.
The Automatic variant has a higher rate of fire, but each round does less damage. It takes a spool up time
Automatic Heavy Midrange Rifle
Damage - 155 RoF - 184 (approximately .32 seconds/shot) Optimal Range(100%) - 60 Effective Range(30%) - 100 Absolute Range(10%) - 220 Magazine Size - 47 Carried Ammo - 705 (15 Magazines) Reload Speed - 3.5 seconds Charge Up/Spool up Time - 0.4 seconds Accuracy Rating - 57.00 CPU - 45 PG - 6 ISK - 3000
The overall DPS/minute is nearly identical than the single shot variant of this weapon. (within 100 HP). However, it has the benefit of being able to simply hold down the trigger while firing instead of having to pull it for every shot. Some may see the ROF as a negative with this weapon. The nearly 1/3 second time in between shots forces the shooter to use skill because of the movement capabilities of the enemy. The Alpha damage is there to compensate, rewarding skill over spray and pray. It is a tactical decision allowing Sentinels and Heavies different possibilities on the battlefield.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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