DUST Search - Why CCP shouldn't change the Gallente assault bonus.

MINA Longstrike wrote:

To explain a few things: neither current amarr or current minmatar assault bonuses increase dps, all they do is increase effective length of engagement time. Assaults only become favoured to win a fight vs non-assaults with the same weapon (and similar accuracy & hp with them both being aware of each other) if it goes on for a long time.

The two most requested bonuses for gallente: Rate of fire and range are both absolutely psychotically powerful - the first is a flat dps increase in all situations and the second is an increase to the range you're able to project your dps. With either of these bonuses the gallente assault becomes the immediate favorite to win a fight against any non assault with an AR. In effect these bonuses aren't balanced and aren't suggested out of a desire for balance, but a desire to be overpowered.

I believe that most people's issue with the gallente assault bonus is that it's 'invisible' unlike the other assaults where you can see the extra bullets in magazine for a min assault or the shots fired for amarr or even the reload speed for a caldari. It is precisely because the gallente bonus is 'invisible' that its undervalued even though it has the benefit of giving you an additional level five in two skills just for being able to wear a proto suit. I've seen plenty of discussion on game design and most companies have found that players tend to undervalue powerful 'invisible' bonuses up until they hit a point of being exceptionally overpowered. The current gallente assault bonus is incredibly strong allowing one to keep a gun incredibly accurate even while twitching about in close quarters - it just doesn't 'feel' powerful because you're not shooting flaming holy avenger +5 bullets.

With upcoming changes to ARs the gallente bonus might not be as good, but I doubt you'll ever get range or RoF unless the bonus was too small to be worthwhile.

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Foehammerr OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 28	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:29:00 - [1] - Quote This happened on a dom, solo, no logi support using only my AR, ion pistol, and Flux grenades in close quarters. I actually ran out of ammo like 5 or 6 times which is why I dies so much. All of this using mostly hip-fire. I'm telling you people, the bonus works. http://imgur.com/gKiVYgy http://imgur.com/wZT4ViK *Rangers Lead The Way!* Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3131	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:33:00 - [2] - Quote I think the question isn't "Is it useful?" it's more so "Is it as useful as the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses?" Unfortunately its really tough to gauge that off of singular player performance since in many cases that's anecdotal evidence. My personal feelings is that the bonus is decent enough, part of me wants to keep it, the other part of me wants to see how it can be changed/improved. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Kalante Schiffer xXNatural-DisasterXx 720	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:36:00 - [3] - Quote lol pubs jiffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffmxfffffffoiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifvossssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 760	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:48:00 - [4] - Quote I see a 5312x2988 image on an unfocused 476p CRT screen, Unfortunately i can't see a thing that is on said CRT screen Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
Foehammerr OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 28	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:03:00 - [5] - Quote Tech De Ra wrote: I see a 5312x2988 image on an unfocused 476p CRT screen, Unfortunately i can't see a thing that is on said CRT screen It was a me on the top of the leaderboards with a 44-6 K/D. I got a nice phone with an HD camera but a TV probably as old as I am. *Rangers Lead The Way!* Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 617	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:06:00 - [6] - Quote Foehammerr wrote: Tech De Ra wrote: I see a 5312x2988 image on an unfocused 476p CRT screen, Unfortunately i can't see a thing that is on said CRT screen It was a me on the top of the leaderboards with a 44-6 K/D. I got a nice phone with an HD camera but a TV probably as old as I am. Once they buff the bonus, buff your tv Quafe A question doesn't always have an answer, but a problem does, So what is DUST? A problem or a question?
LT Shanx OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 121	Posted - 2014.09.09 23:46:00 - [7] - Quote I disagree. The bonus works up to a certain extent, but it could be improved upon. I would also like to note that one instance of you having done well in a pub match is not enough to properly gauge the usefulness of the bonus in its entirety. If such scores are your norm and if you can still be consistent against the likes of organized squads and reputable skilled players, then your claim would hold more weight. However, displaying that you did well in one match is the same as me posting a screen of my 36-0 Plasma Cannon game and me claiming that the weapon is perfectly fine and needs no further adjustments.
Joel II X Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3325	Posted - 2014.09.10 00:16:00 - [8] - Quote RoF bonus or bust! Oh, and buff IoP hit detection. I notice those blue shields flashing, CCP. Don't you dare tell me I didn't hit him. DON'T YOU DARE!
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 989	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:34:00 - [9] - Quote it just needs to apply to all hybrids like eve first off. ive always used railguns on my gal ships and my gal ships give bonuses to railguns. i dont get any bonuses to rails here. doesnt make any sense considering rails are hybrid weapons and gal are supposed to have bonuses for all hybrid weapons. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
TheDarthMa94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 502	Posted - 2014.09.10 03:07:00 - [10] - Quote I suggest the Gal assault bonus should be a range bonus per level because most of the map in Dust are big and wide. Don't get me wrong guys, the current bonus is good but not that good in a long term. Sith & Open Beta Vet. "People always telling me how lucky I am. But the truth is everything I touch turns to shit"

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17603	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:22:00 - [11] - Quote Ah yes, the old anecdote. Should we play this game? Post Charlie, I have gone 77/2, 68/1, 81/4, and 75/3 in an Amarr assault. I've posted several 60+ games with a Minmatar assault. I haven't done that with either the Gallente or Caldari assaults. Clearly, there's something wrong! Flying to new horizons.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 221	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:52:00 - [12] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: it just needs to apply to all hybrids like eve first off. ive always used railguns on my gal ships and my gal ships give bonuses to railguns. i dont get any bonuses to rails here. doesnt make any sense considering rails are hybrid weapons and gal are supposed to have bonuses for all hybrid weapons. I love this idea. Instead if changing Caldari and Gallente bonuses, just make them apply to all hybrid weapons.
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1788	Posted - 2014.09.10 07:10:00 - [13] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ah yes, the old anecdote. Should we play this game? Post Charlie, I have gone 77/2, 68/1, 81/4, and 75/3 in an Amarr assault. I've posted several 60+ games with a Minmatar assault. You make my e-peen feel very small :(
HYENAKILLER X WILL FIGHT ANYONE 844	Posted - 2014.09.10 07:17:00 - [14] - Quote Foehammerr wrote: This happened on a dom, solo, no logi support using only my AR, ion pistol, and Flux grenades in close quarters. I actually ran out of ammo like 5 or 6 times which is why I dies so much. All of this using mostly hip-fire. I'm telling you people, the bonus works. http://imgur.com/gKiVYgy http://imgur.com/wZT4ViK Agreed. The hip fire accuracy and range at proto is beautiful. CCP <3. My only complaint was vehicles.
CommanderBolt Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1515	Posted - 2014.09.10 10:13:00 - [15] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: lol pubs Pubs are all that most of the player base has got man! -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3060	Posted - 2014.09.10 10:20:00 - [16] - Quote Well that's good for you, but the Gallente bonus still sucks compared to every other suit. Each one directly affecting how much damage the weapon can dish out, while the Gallente bonus doesn't do anything. YES UT DOES AFFECT THE AR, but when the CR and RR have better hipfire and dispersion than an AR on a proto gal, along with better range for a tiny dps difference it makes the AR suck and the suit suck by comparison. Which is why both need to be fixed, no weapon should come close to the AR in cqc effectiveness and no weapon should ever think to come toe to toe vs a Gal with an AR. But this is not the case, because of the point above. I also believe the bonus should be more lore friendly affecting both blaster and rails but not a necessity. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Spaceman-Rob New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 523	Posted - 2014.09.10 11:05:00 - [17] - Quote Bonus comes in handy on my tac assault rifles, so yea! I say keep it.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3488	Posted - 2014.09.10 11:17:00 - [18] - Quote It might indeed work. BUT, Rattati is still in the process of balancing the rifles, Delta has a lot of changes including considerably less recoil and dispersion for gallante weapons from hip fire posistions. It might work now, it might even be mildly useful now, but I seriously doubt you'll benifit in Delta. Burst AR's have no recoil. Breach AR's will have low-moderate recoil TAC AR's will have almost no recoil Basic AR's have moderate recoil Instead I think based on how Gallante have the longest TTE (time to empty mag) they should recieve a reload bonus. Allowing them to keep up the fight for much longer than their opponents. As for the dispersion bonus, I think that should be kept. Gallante: -5% Reload Time -5% Hipfire dispersion per level Caldari: -10% Charge Time -5% Recoil per level Minmatar +5% Mag Capacity +1 Round (Explosive) per level Amarr: -5% Heat Build Up -5% Seize Duration per level Sorted. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12082	Posted - 2014.09.10 11:44:00 - [19] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: It might indeed work. BUT, Rattati is still in the process of balancing the rifles, Delta has a lot of changes including considerably less recoil and dispersion for gallante weapons from hip fire posistions. It might work now, it might even be mildly useful now, but I seriously doubt you'll benifit in Delta. Burst AR's have no recoil. Breach AR's will have low-moderate recoil TAC AR's will have almost no recoil Basic AR's have moderate recoil Instead I think based on how Gallante have the longest TTE (time to empty mag) they should recieve a reload bonus. Allowing them to keep up the fight for much longer than their opponents. As for the dispersion bonus, I think that should be kept. Gallante: -5% Reload Time -5% Hipfire dispersion per level Caldari: -10% Charge Time -5% Recoil per level Minmatar +5% Mag Capacity +1 Round (Explosive) per level Amarr: -5% Heat Build Up -5% Seize Duration per level Sorted. Still doubt either the Caldari or Gallente bonuses are as powerful as straight up 500-600 extra damage per clip that the Minmatar and Amarr enjoy. Not to mention they have the fastest reload speeds. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 360	Posted - 2014.09.10 14:33:00 - [20] - Quote You know the hip-fire for Gallente is not bad. It is depending on how YOU can make it good. You literally have a 50% decrease in hip-fire dispersion which in terms make the AR deadly when shooting from the hip. We gave the AR a RoF buff up to 800 rpm I think. I'm going to go ahead and say inb4toopowerful of bonus or inb4FoTM. If you really want to give the Gallente Assault another/better bonus added on I say increase the RoF by 2% per level or 1% if 2% is too extreme. This is to balance out the competing RoF guns like the ScR and CR. The RR was not included due to the high alpha damage it has and the RoF compensates for it. At 2% per level you will have @Min (Level 1 Gal Assault) 816rpm @Max (Level 5 Gal Assault) 880rpm. Doing some number crunching here is your damage (Assuming the Basic AR like the toxin for example and not accounting for damage mods nor weapon proficiency) counting for the weapon's profile: Using the Toxin or Basic AR @Min Damage to shields (+10 to shields): 463.8 HP/s; To armor (-10 to armor): 379.4 HP/s Using the Toxin or Basic AR @Max Damage to shields (+10 to shields): 500.1 HP/s; To armor (-10 to armor): 409.2 HP/s I would love to hear detailed feedback on this idea and or what fixes can be made to ensure that this is not too powerful. Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1301	Posted - 2014.09.10 15:01:00 - [21] - Quote To explain a few things: neither current amarr or current minmatar assault bonuses increase dps, all they do is increase effective length of engagement time. Assaults only become favoured to win a fight vs non-assaults with the same weapon (and similar accuracy & hp with them both being aware of each other) if it goes on for a long time. The two most requested bonuses for gallente: Rate of fire and range are both absolutely psychotically powerful - the first is a flat dps increase in all situations and the second is an increase to the range you're able to project your dps. With either of these bonuses the gallente assault becomes the immediate favorite to win a fight against any non assault with an AR. In effect these bonuses aren't balanced and aren't suggested out of a desire for balance, but a desire to be overpowered. I believe that most people's issue with the gallente assault bonus is that it's 'invisible' unlike the other assaults where you can see the extra bullets in magazine for a min assault or the shots fired for amarr or even the reload speed for a caldari. It is precisely because the gallente bonus is 'invisible' that its undervalued even though it has the benefit of giving you an additional level five in two skills just for being able to wear a proto suit. I've seen plenty of discussion on game design and most companies have found that players tend to undervalue powerful 'invisible' bonuses up until they hit a point of being exceptionally overpowered. The current gallente assault bonus is incredibly strong allowing one to keep a gun incredibly accurate even while twitching about in close quarters - it just doesn't 'feel' powerful because you're not shooting flaming holy avenger +5 bullets. With upcoming changes to ARs the gallente bonus might not be as good, but I doubt you'll ever get range or RoF unless the bonus was too small to be worthwhile. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12091	Posted - 2014.09.10 15:23:00 - [22] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: To explain a few things: neither current amarr or current minmatar assault bonuses increase dps, all they do is increase effective length of engagement time. Assaults only become favoured to win a fight vs non-assaults with the same weapon (and similar accuracy & hp with them both being aware of each other) if it goes on for a long time. The two most requested bonuses for gallente: Rate of fire and range are both absolutely psychotically powerful - the first is a flat dps increase in all situations and the second is an increase to the range you're able to project your dps. With either of these bonuses the gallente assault becomes the immediate favorite to win a fight against any non assault with an AR. In effect these bonuses aren't balanced and aren't suggested out of a desire for balance, but a desire to be overpowered. I believe that most people's issue with the gallente assault bonus is that it's 'invisible' unlike the other assaults where you can see the extra bullets in magazine for a min assault or the shots fired for amarr or even the reload speed for a caldari. It is precisely because the gallente bonus is 'invisible' that its undervalued even though it has the benefit of giving you an additional level five in two skills just for being able to wear a proto suit. I've seen plenty of discussion on game design and most companies have found that players tend to undervalue powerful 'invisible' bonuses up until they hit a point of being exceptionally overpowered. The current gallente assault bonus is incredibly strong allowing one to keep a gun incredibly accurate even while twitching about in close quarters - it just doesn't 'feel' powerful because you're not shooting flaming holy avenger +5 bullets. With upcoming changes to ARs the gallente bonus might not be as good, but I doubt you'll ever get range or RoF unless the bonus was too small to be worthwhile. Fine then, give the Amarr and Minmatar the hipfire bonuses, give Gallente and Caldari clip size increases. Let's see how "Great" the bonus is. I am using strictly the AR, IoP and sometimes Swarm Launcher when there are vehicles. I KNOW how they behave inside out, that bonus is doing nothing useful. The hip fire bonus basically makes more shots hit, right? But the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses make it so that there are more shots to dish out, 600 damage worth of shots, so they can afford to miss and still do their unbonused full damage. The AR only has to miss one shot and you're already doing less damage than what you would have otherwise. See how that works? The Amarr and Minmatar bonus not only increase damage potential over time, they allow you to miss more often. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1302	Posted - 2014.09.10 16:06:00 - [23] - Quote You know I use all of the assaults regularly right? The gallente bonus is fine. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1491	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:06:00 - [24] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Well that's good for you, but the Gallente bonus still sucks compared to every other suit. The Caldari Assault suit bonus waves hello from the depth of uselessness. I'd take the Gallente bonus in a second.
JP Acuna Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:41:00 - [25] - Quote I like the bonus too. Bonus is good, gallente weapons are questionable (but the shotty), that's all.
JP Acuna Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:48:00 - [26] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: With upcoming changes to ARs the gallente bonus might not be as good, but I doubt you'll ever get range or RoF unless the bonus was too small to be worthwhile. What? are they nerfing ARs or something? further?
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12098	Posted - 2014.09.10 17:51:00 - [27] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: You know I use all of the assaults regularly right? The gallente bonus is fine. You know I did tests? Put targets at different ranges and hip fired with and without the bonus? You know that it doesn't do anything worth anything? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 438	Posted - 2014.09.10 19:32:00 - [28] - Quote TheDarthMa94 wrote: most of the maps in Dust are big and wide. like your moms vagina. Remove marijuana from blocked words list.
Death Shadow117 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 438	Posted - 2014.09.10 19:34:00 - [29] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: I like the bonus too. Bonus is good, gallente weapons are questionable (but the shotty), that's all. if you mean the "****** HIT DETECTION GUN" then yes. Remove marijuana from blocked words list.
Foehammerr OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 36	Posted - 2014.09.11 01:45:00 - [30] - Quote Cat merc, the more you talk, the less it looks like you know what you're talking about. > Fine then, give the Amarr and Minmatar the hipfire bonuses, give Gallente and Caldari clip size increases. Let's see how "Great" the bonus is. This is a stupid idea. This bonus actually doesn't do anything for those weapons as they have very little dispersion to begin with (virtually non existent with the scrambler rifle. ) The AR has quite a bit if unskilled. The ar was the only weapon I was skilled into and used from beta to 1.8 when I skilled into other Gallente weapons with the release of the GalCom. Even with the added dps from the commando, the ar performs notably worse in close quarters in comparison without the bonus due to the spread. >You know I did tests? Put targets at different ranges and hip fired with and without the bonus? You know that it doesn't do anything worth anything? Standing still shooting at stationary targets isn't the same as shooting at targets actively moving and trying to evade your fire while shooting back. The current bonus optimizes the ar ' s specialty as a CQB weapon, keeping a tight spread while moving and shooting from the hip. Any Halo or counter strike player should feel right at home with the fit. The problem isn't the weapon or the suit. It's that the other rifle ' s spreads are small enough that the bonus seems moot. Currently the only weapon the assault rifle has a obvious advantage over is scrambler because of the fact that it's a single fire weapon. If the combat rifle and the rail rifle had higher spreads, this wouldn't be an issue. *Rangers Lead The Way!* Beta Vet since 2/5/2013



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