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wripple
warravens Capital Punishment.
206
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Posted - 2014.09.07 10:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
As it currently stands, we are all too familiar with scouts running the show on the battlefield. It is far too easy to become invisible, hide from radar and tank your suit out with both speed and HP all at the same time. This is why I'm proposing two suggestions to reward tactical builds for scouts, as well as dicincentivizing other abusable builds.
1) We've all seen it, the 1000 HP GK.0 scout with a Boundless Combat rifle who is a ghost to all but dedicated glass cannon scout hunters. It's far too easy to run around with a plethora of extenders and/or plates on a scout and still remain invisible on the radar. Increase can profile with plates and shield extenders according to meta level.
2) Most suits running complex precision mods still cannot locate even BPO scouts who are cloaked. Increase scan profile when cloak is activated (reducing own passive scans while cloaked optional)
Both of these changes would drastically disincentivize poor fitting choices, as well as giving an increased incentive towards EWAR modules. I'll be honest, I've only been scouting since the cloak became a thing, but I've seen first hand how abusable the suits can be with how flexible and carefree some scouts are becoming on the field today. I want to see the suit thrive in its natural environment, being the ninja/intel masters on the battlefield, without becoming invisible bruisers in head to head engagement. |
BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3025
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Posted - 2014.09.07 14:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
wripple wrote:As it currently stands, we are all too familiar with scouts running the show on the battlefield. It is far too easy to become invisible, hide from radar and tank your suit out with both speed and HP all at the same time. This is why I'm proposing two suggestions to reward tactical builds for scouts, as well as dicincentivizing other abusable builds.
1) We've all seen it, the 1000 HP GK.0 scout with a Boundless Combat rifle who is a ghost to all but dedicated glass cannon scout hunters. It's far too easy to run around with a plethora of extenders and/or plates on a scout and still remain invisible on the radar. Increase can profile with plates and shield extenders according to meta level.
2) Most suits running complex precision mods still cannot locate even BPO scouts who are cloaked. Increase scan profile when cloak is activated (reducing own passive scans while cloaked optional)
Both of these changes would drastically disincentivize poor fitting choices, as well as giving an increased incentive towards EWAR modules. I'll be honest, I've only been scouting since the cloak became a thing, but I've seen first hand how abusable the suits can be with how flexible and carefree some scouts are becoming on the field today. I want to see the suit thrive in its natural environment, being the ninja/intel masters on the battlefield, without becoming invisible bruisers in head to head engagement.
I can get behind increasing profile with shields but not for armor because it isn't lore friendly. What I can get behind is decreasing cloak time with stacked armor since it requires more stress on the cloak field generator because more matter to cloak.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
799
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Posted - 2014.09.07 15:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:wripple wrote:As it currently stands, we are all too familiar with scouts running the show on the battlefield. It is far too easy to become invisible, hide from radar and tank your suit out with both speed and HP all at the same time. This is why I'm proposing two suggestions to reward tactical builds for scouts, as well as dicincentivizing other abusable builds.
1) We've all seen it, the 1000 HP GK.0 scout with a Boundless Combat rifle who is a ghost to all but dedicated glass cannon scout hunters. It's far too easy to run around with a plethora of extenders and/or plates on a scout and still remain invisible on the radar. Increase can profile with plates and shield extenders according to meta level.
2) Most suits running complex precision mods still cannot locate even BPO scouts who are cloaked. Increase scan profile when cloak is activated (reducing own passive scans while cloaked optional)
Both of these changes would drastically disincentivize poor fitting choices, as well as giving an increased incentive towards EWAR modules. I'll be honest, I've only been scouting since the cloak became a thing, but I've seen first hand how abusable the suits can be with how flexible and carefree some scouts are becoming on the field today. I want to see the suit thrive in its natural environment, being the ninja/intel masters on the battlefield, without becoming invisible bruisers in head to head engagement. I can get behind increasing profile with shields but not for armor because it isn't lore friendly. What I can get behind is decreasing cloak time with stacked armor since it requires more stress on the cloak field generator because more matter to cloak. true but the fact stands that shield tank/buffer is pants.. any one who wants raw buffer goes armor tank which at basic.. extender vs plate is nearly 3x more on armor then shield.. at adv its like 2.2x more then shield extender.. and still like 2.1x more at proto level..
instead of signature.. why not make it so scouts cannot use normal plates but only ferroscale and reactive as a "light suit servo's cannot cope with the mass increase" or the normal plates. that way they cannot stack ungodly eHP and still be immune to most Ewar
or BOTH! for maximum delicious butthurt QQ whine tears from those crutch wielding buttholes we call scouts.
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
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bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
401
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Posted - 2014.09.07 15:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nerf overall Scout CPU/PG and then bonus/rebate CPU/PG for EWAR modules only.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1802
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:Nerf overall Scout CPU/PG and then bonus/rebate CPU/PG for EWAR modules only.
I don't really feel like that is the solution. What needs to happen is a massive overhaul of the ewar mechanics. Other threads are actively discussing this so I won't get into it here but it is the scouts relative invisibility that makes them such a pain. Once you spot them even brick tanked scouts go down easily.
Fun > Realism
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Meee One
Hello Kitty Logistics
1095
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Posted - 2014.09.07 18:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Nerf overall Scout CPU/PG and then bonus/rebate CPU/PG for EWAR modules only.
I don't really feel like that is the solution. What needs to happen is a massive overhaul of the ewar mechanics. Other threads are actively discussing this so I won't get into it here but it is the scouts relative invisibility that makes them such a pain. Once you spot them even brick tanked scouts go down easily. Unless they're strafing at full speed of 8+M/s.
Ferros can make scouts near impossible to hit with a DS3.
As for the OP,that would be fine if it was limited to light suits. But would screw over all others badly.
The simplest solution would be to make the Ion pistols charge shot OHK any light suit regardless of tank. Ions would then have a purpose instead of just being a failed shotgun.
Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2268
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't even know where to begin...these are terrible ideas.
The only thing scouts need is to get under scans easier, but have double penalties from plates/shields.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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hfderrtgvcd
378
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
[quote=wripple] We've all seen it, the 1000 HP GK.0 scout with a Boundless Combat rifle who is a ghost to all but dedicated glass cannon scout hunters.
Please show me a fit like this.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Mauren NOON
The Exemplars
454
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
wripple wrote:As it currently stands, we are all too familiar with scouts running the show on the battlefield. It is far too easy to become invisible, hide from radar and tank your suit out with both speed and HP all at the same time. This is why I'm proposing two suggestions to reward tactical builds for scouts, as well as dicincentivizing other abusable builds.
1) We've all seen it, the 1000 HP GK.0 scout with a Boundless Combat rifle who is a ghost to all but dedicated glass cannon scout hunters. It's far too easy to run around with a plethora of extenders and/or plates on a scout and still remain invisible on the radar. Increase can profile with plates and shield extenders according to meta level.
2) Most suits running complex precision mods still cannot locate even BPO scouts who are cloaked. Increase scan profile when cloak is activated (reducing own passive scans while cloaked optional)
Both of these changes would drastically disincentivize poor fitting choices, as well as giving an increased incentive towards EWAR modules. I'll be honest, I've only been scouting since the cloak became a thing, but I've seen first hand how abusable the suits can be with how flexible and carefree some scouts are becoming on the field today. I want to see the suit thrive in its natural environment, being the ninja/intel masters on the battlefield, without becoming invisible bruisers in head to head engagement. Or just make it so gal scouts can't get under 15 Db
Scr and commando enthusiast.
Amarrica!
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1716
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Posted - 2014.09.07 20:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Double movement penalty for armor on light frames.
Make base precision lower than profile on all suits.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Zindorak
1.U.P
873
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Posted - 2014.09.07 20:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Notice me Senpai! Sorry just had to
Pokemon master!
I suck at Tekken lol
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Gelhad Thremyr
Never 2 Late
337
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Posted - 2014.09.07 20:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:[quote=wripple] We've all seen it, the 1000 HP GK.0 scout with a Boundless Combat rifle who is a ghost to all but dedicated glass cannon scout hunters.
Please show me a fit like this.
My Proto GK 0 has near 850 EHP shield and armor, its slow but its near that, my amar assault has almost 1100 eHP
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
3869
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Posted - 2014.09.07 21:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
I appreciate you making a fairly reasonable points, and agree with some things, but not necessarily others.
I agree tanking is somewhat of an issue. I have heard Rattati speak to possibly give light suits alone a unique penalty to regular plates. I have also heard discussion of making the bonuses scouts have affect only mods, so as to increase the need to actually have them equipped to get any benefit from them. As it stands, just having dampening to lvl 5 gives scouts a significant advantage.
I disagree with the notion that cloaks are the devil. There are certainly issues, and they have been exploited, but given the significant weaknesses scouts have, being unscanned is imperative.
One legitimate problem with cloaks is the ability to so quickly use equipment or items in the middle of decloaking, particularly Alpha weapons like the NKs and Shotguns. And while I would like to eventually have a one second delay between decloak and equipment/weapons use, there is a large problem in the way. That of the sprint bug.
If you have tried scouting for any period of time, you are probably familiar with the slowing down that happens when trying to do a lot in a short amount of time, particularly trying to use a weapon from sprint, or change/use equipment etc.
Until this gets fixed, I could not advocate for a delay after decloaking because then scouts would not only have to deal with the delay, but the inability to maneuver, find cover, escape etc. during the delay.
TL;DR I agree with the notion that non tank (particularly armor plate) mods should be incentivized, but not necessarily with your plans on doing so.
I don't agree with reducing cloak EWAR advantages, though there are problems with the cloak that need fixing.
You can always tell a Millford Minja
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John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
891
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Posted - 2014.09.07 21:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
video
Please support fair play!
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medomai grey
warravens Capital Punishment.
969
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Posted - 2014.09.07 21:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
wripple wrote:As it currently stands, we are all too familiar with scouts running the show on the battlefield. It is far too easy to become invisible, hide from radar and tank your suit out with both speed and HP all at the same time. This is why I'm proposing two suggestions to reward tactical builds for scouts, as well as dicincentivizing other abusable builds.
1) We've all seen it, the 1000 HP GK.0 scout with a Boundless Combat rifle who is a ghost to all but dedicated glass cannon scout hunters. It's far too easy to run around with a plethora of extenders and/or plates on a scout and still remain invisible on the radar. Increase can profile with plates and shield extenders according to meta level.
2) Most suits running complex precision mods still cannot locate even BPO scouts who are cloaked. Increase scan profile when cloak is activated (reducing own passive scans while cloaked optional)
Both of these changes would drastically disincentivize poor fitting choices, as well as giving an increased incentive towards EWAR modules. I'll be honest, I've only been scouting since the cloak became a thing, but I've seen first hand how abusable the suits can be with how flexible and carefree some scouts are becoming on the field today. I want to see the suit thrive in its natural environment, being the ninja/intel masters on the battlefield, without becoming invisible bruisers in head to head engagement. Was going to make a thread about why dampening + cloaks evading all forms of scans besides gallente logistics + active scanning is bad and suggest #2. But you've beat me to it.
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3473
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Posted - 2014.09.07 22:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:I appreciate you making a fairly reasonable points, and agree with some things, but not necessarily others.
I agree tanking is somewhat of an issue. I have heard Rattati speak to possibly give light suits alone a unique penalty to regular plates. I have also heard discussion of making the bonuses scouts have affect only mods, so as to increase the need to actually have them equipped to get any benefit from them. As it stands, just having dampening to lvl 5 gives scouts a significant advantage.
I disagree with the notion that cloaks are the devil. There are certainly issues, and they have been exploited, but given the significant weaknesses scouts have, being unscanned is imperative.
One legitimate problem with cloaks is the ability to so quickly use equipment or items in the middle of decloaking, particularly Alpha weapons like the NKs and Shotguns. And while I would like to eventually have a one second delay between decloak and equipment/weapons use, there is a large problem in the way. That of the sprint bug.
If you have tried scouting for any period of time, you are probably familiar with the slowing down that happens when trying to do a lot in a short amount of time, particularly trying to use a weapon from sprint, or change/use equipment etc.
Until this gets fixed, I could not advocate for a delay after decloaking because then scouts would not only have to deal with the delay, but the inability to maneuver, find cover, escape etc. during the delay.
TL;DR I agree with the notion that non tank (particularly armor plate) mods should be incentivized, but not necessarily with your plans on doing so.
I don't agree with reducing cloak EWAR advantages, though there are problems with the cloak that need fixing. True, but many users get around this by simply jumping. Jumping maintains momentum, but circumvents the sprinting bug.
Instead force cloakers to manually decloak. Reduces chance of sprint bug, improves the situational awerness of your enemies.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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gustavo acosta
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
233
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Posted - 2014.09.07 22:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'd rather that scouts get efficiency bonuses to E-war modules, so they would only benefit from E-war if and only if they fit E-war modules.
Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault
Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
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Joel II X
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3302
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Posted - 2014.09.08 00:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Nerf overall Scout CPU/PG and then bonus/rebate CPU/PG for EWAR modules only.
I don't really feel like that is the solution. What needs to happen is a massive overhaul of the ewar mechanics. Other threads are actively discussing this so I won't get into it here but it is the scouts relative invisibility that makes them such a pain. Once you spot them even brick tanked scouts go down easily. Unless they're strafing at full speed of 8+M/s. Ferros can make scouts near impossible to hit with a DS3. As for the OP,that would be fine if it was limited to light suits. But would screw over all others badly. The simplest solution would be to make the Ion pistols charge shot OHK any light suit regardless of tank. Ions would then have a purpose instead of just being a failed shotgun. No scout can strafe that fast. I think the Minmatar are around 5.7ish strafe. |
askedtobe wipe
3
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Posted - 2014.09.17 08:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
yea yea...alll sound good...but how about being able to paint em? you know paint ball....it stays on em for 40 sec...use re...weapons...grenades...if cloak on or off you see that...i mean this is adv tech in distance galaxy....we have no way of being able to mark a cloak once spotted |
TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
5686
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Posted - 2014.09.17 09:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
As it stands.
Free kill
Free kill
Noticed me but still, free kill
They scanned me, whip out the triple dampeners.
Free kill
Free kill
Re multi kill
Re multi kill
Free kill
Oh i actually died
Free kill
Am i one of the only few people who thinks scouts are fking ridiculous at the mo or is that just because i bossed it when there was no cloak and all hit detection was a joke?.
The whole awareness point as well, that would only count if scouts didn't know exactly which way people are facing lol.
Im not factoring sht scouts either, i can sneak up on them in my proto min assault with a cloak lol,
Well that was spiffing!.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1772
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Posted - 2014.09.17 09:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Scouts survive with speed. Double movement penalty for stacking armor.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
348
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Posted - 2014.09.17 10:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Scouts survive with speed. Double movement penalty for stacking armor.
That only fixes brick tank scouts, shield and hybrid tankers would be mostly unaffected.
This will also cause us brick tanked Amarr and Gal Sentinels to be slower and more of a target...
I disapprove.
Legionhares Unite!
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