I want this game to be as balanced as possible so don't resort to posting comments saying Q.Q or that I hate heavies and I digress.


When heavies received their turn speed buff ages ago that's when heavies started appearing on the OP radar in forum threads.

Before they had tons and tons of HP. More HP than even now with an HMG that would tear you a new one but they were slow...not only were they slow but they couldn't turn on a dime like they do now.

This is my main issue with heavies, secondary issue being the complete ease of firing without worrying about overheat or spool up time but that's a different topic for a different day.


The reason Heavy suits received their bonus to Turning Speed in the first place was due to scout issues at the time and their uselessness against them at the time and I do vaguely remember one of the DEVs saying that the turning speed buff was just a temporary buff until the matter could be resolved.

Well, Rattati it looks like that time is now. Heavies are in a good place now with health, the scout issue is no longer present (albeit replaced by a different one) and the HMG now has a devastating amount of damage enough to swat anything that comes close to it (which is the way it should be) but all that with a high turning speed and ease of the weapon is not an ideal form of balance.


Just to get things more into context this is just like a Battleship in EVE having their Large Turrets have the same tracking speed as a small frigate turret. If you are familiar with EVE then you know how ridiculously absurd the idea is and would make running smaller ships in the game useless.

This can still translate roughly into DUST even with it's players being capable of independent movement.

- Currently Heavies have the Highest Health in the Game
along with the Highest Damaging infantry weapons in the Game

From a gaming standpoint for balance those two traits translate into
Slower movement
Low Mag Size and or Long Lock on time / target acquisition


Sentinels can serve a broad purpose and the purpose depends on each race. Currently the Caldari serves more of a purpose of Long range Anti Material Support while the Amarr Sentinel is more of a Armor tank to soak up tons of damage. The Minmatar meanwhile would be the ideal heavy people have in minds with the HMG compatibility.


What I have in mind is a reduction of Turning speed from lowest to highest:
Amarr
Caldari
Gallente
Minmatar


You can also see that this correlates well with each races ideal battle methods and this would still allow the Minmatar Heavies to completely wreck suits just like Jove intended. As a bonus, not only does this change create balance but it also discourages the use of light weapons on sentinel suits without completely invalidating Light Weapons on Sentinel Frames.



I have to wrap it up now to pick up the kid from practice but please keep in mind that I have ideas for balance to the other suits as well. This is just a topic about heavies.

I want this game to be as balanced as possible so don't resort to posting comments saying Q.Q or that I hate heavies and I digress.


When heavies received their turn speed buff ages ago that's when heavies started appearing on the OP radar in forum threads.

Before they had tons and tons of HP. More HP than even now with an HMG that would tear you a new one but they were slow...not only were they slow but they couldn't turn on a dime like they do now.

This is my main issue with heavies, secondary issue being the complete ease of firing without worrying about overheat or spool up time but that's a different topic for a different day.


The reason Heavy suits received their bonus to Turning Speed in the first place was due to scout issues at the time and their uselessness against them at the time and I do vaguely remember one of the DEVs saying that the turning speed buff was just a temporary buff until the matter could be resolved.

Well, Rattati it looks like that time is now. Heavies are in a good place now with health, the scout issue is no longer present (albeit replaced by a different one) and the HMG now has a devastating amount of damage enough to swat anything that comes close to it (which is the way it should be) but all that with a high turning speed and ease of the weapon is not an ideal form of balance.


Just to get things more into context this is just like a Battleship in EVE having their Large Turrets have the same tracking speed as a small frigate turret. If you are familiar with EVE then you know how ridiculously absurd the idea is and would make running smaller ships in the game useless.

This can still translate roughly into DUST even with it's players being capable of independent movement.

- Currently Heavies have the Highest Health in the Game
along with the Highest Damaging infantry weapons in the Game

From a gaming standpoint for balance those two traits translate into
Slower movement
Low Mag Size and or Long Lock on time / target acquisition


Sentinels can serve a broad purpose and the purpose depends on each race. Currently the Caldari serves more of a purpose of Long range Anti Material Support while the Amarr Sentinel is more of a Armor tank to soak up tons of damage. The Minmatar meanwhile would be the ideal heavy people have in minds with the HMG compatibility.


What I have in mind is a reduction of Turning speed from lowest to highest:
Amarr
Caldari
Gallente
Minmatar


You can also see that this correlates well with each races ideal battle methods and this would still allow the Minmatar Heavies to completely wreck suits just like Jove intended. As a bonus, not only does this change create balance but it also discourages the use of light weapons on sentinel suits without completely invalidating Light Weapons on Sentinel Frames.



I have to wrap it up now to pick up the kid from practice but please keep in mind that I have ideas for balance to the other suits as well. This is just a topic about heavies.

Wouldn't it be
Amarr
Gallente
Caldari
Minmatar
You know since gallente heavies can tank so much better. Besides it's a bad idea then all the scouts will become op. The only thing that keeps scouts in check are heavies take that away and scoutapolsa

Before they do this they need to fix firing from cloak.

Heavies only have a shot at shotgun scouts because of the turn speed.

Before they do this they need to fix firing from cloak.

Heavies only have a shot at shotgun scouts because of the turn speed.

Wouldn't it be
Amarr
Gallente
Caldari
Minmatar
You know since gallente heavies can tank so much better. Besides it's a bad idea then all the scouts will become op. The only thing that keeps scouts in check are heavies take that away and scoutapolsa

Ehh, I agree with the consensus. Sentinels need to be able to have a fighting chance against a backstabbing scout.

If heavy turn speed is decreased, so should the assault and logi's.
Why should medium frames be able to turn at the same speed as a light frame?

I love the want to go back to when a heavy could not track a scout strafing left and right... let alone simply walking around them - which you can still do to get that 3rd shotgun shot off unless the heavy is jump turning

Seriously, if you can't take down a current build heavy on your own you have either a) engaged on the heavy's terms or b) not thought about what you are doing.

It would probably be best if we see what Rattati wants heavies to be.


Maybe the idea of Heavy has changed from Battleship to Super Jove Omni ship status but Idk, I'm very old school with suit purposes.


Keep in mind I'm not even a scout nor have a Light suit, I am an Assault. In my proposed changes Heavies will still shred everything else in fairly the same manner.

So I take it you never played the heavy when we had the turn cap? You know when all it took to kill a heavy was a bit of strafing and a militia SMG. I'd rather not go back to those dark days if you don't mind...

Heavies have a defense against scouts. It's called "even grazing them in the foot with a burst from the HMG". Unless you're stacking proto damage mods on a proto shotgun AND aiming for the head, most heavies take 2+ shots to take out.

I think Heavies have had enough nerfs. Assaults have finally gotten major buffing and will be getting some more if CCP Rattati is adjusting their skill bonuses. Nerf Sentinels any more and this game is going to favor Assaults again.

burst hmg's are getting nerfed.

As predicted a random casual appears and assumes it as Q.Q and thinks I can't do anything.


Random pub blueberry is not worth it.

As usual, Kirk thinking that he is above another player.

Anyway, if it is not a heavy **** and moan, what exactly is this thread about if you are not also calling for a relative turn speed decrease for medium suits as well?

Or would that handicap your precious gal assault?

If your brain is incapable of understanding someone wanting Balance for the sake of Balance then I can't help you.

Yes, and being unable to track the suit which is the hard counter to the heavy creates balance?
Maybe you are the one that needs to think a bit more.

Assaults haven't been favored since chromosome when my vk.1 could run 2 equips with like almost 600 shields.

That was the pinnacle, yet still from Uprising 1.0 to 1.7 we had Light and Heavy Frames taking a back seat to Mediums. There was no point in playing Scouts other than the love of it. With the HMG working as intended the only reason to play Sentinels was the Ishukone Assault Forgegun.

I'm not really sure how else to describe one-sided nerfing and buffing. But what I am very Sure of is we are very close to slipping back into an old rut.

snip
He's still right, even back then Assaults were terrible. You're thinking about Logistics suits which were the champions of everything until they were tuned down. but Assaults have never been good as you say they are in Uprising.

snip

If anyone is actually serious about a turn cap then it needs to be approached logically instead of politically.

Define the problem

Dropsuits with more health need a handicap against less armored opponents. Example one any sentinel against any scout. Example two any non-plated Minmater Logi against any fully plated Gallente Scout. Example three any stacked armored Assault against any Logi.

Ideate

Skipping this under the assumption it is agreed turning penalties is the solution.

Refine

Using physics as a basis armor value can loosely be equated to mass. Wearing a Plate Carrier impedes movement more than a Kevlar Vest.

Total Armor Value / X = Y

X = A singular constant value (eg 2000, 2500, etc)

Y = Value that the turn radius is reduced. There are two options: One it is a direct value removed from the turn radius, two it is a percentage to reduce the turn radius.

group a sentinel with a squad or at least another person.

This is supposed to be a team based game no?
Where everything has a counter to it.

We are acting as if heavies are supposed to be fully efficient on their own which is NOT the way it was intended to be.

And we acting like the public contracts doesn't state its for lone mercenaries or small squads.

We shouldn't change the sentinel turn speed when the scouts have greater mobility anyway and a good scout can still run circles around a heavy.

Yes its a team based game but that isn't a squad. The team is 16, the squad is 6. So if you're not in a squad, you're still on the team.