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Kin Cat
Another Clone in the Wall
19
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
When everyone flames an idea they don't like and there are no moderators around, you can easily see where things start to become biased. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9226
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is why ultimately it's up to CCP to decide whether or not a particular idea gets accepted.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
6564
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer .
If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle.
We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
290
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever.
I've got to tell you this man. You're doing a great job at making this game better. |
Kin Cat
Another Clone in the Wall
19
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever.
buffing combat rifle damage against armor really doesn't sound like it's supported by any data, in fact the data should support NOT doing so
it's bad enough the light weapon damage buff affects the OP combat rifle |
Jace Kaisar
91
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kin Cat wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. buffing combat rifle damage against armor really doesn't sound like it's supported by any data, in fact the data should support NOT doing so it's bad enough the light weapon damage buff affects the OP combat rifle
It needs a damage profile change for sure, and it works as a nice counter to the 20/20 of the scrambler as well.
Think about it, Railtech is better at penetrating shields over projectile due to it's high speed making it harder to absorb, but it doesn't deal as much armor damage because it just impacts.
Projectiles actually explode as they hit the target (Shrapnel at the least, but I bet you in the future they have made ammo that penetrates and explodes), meaning that it deals more armor damage, but the lower speed means it's easily absorbed by shields.
It makes sense to me.
I'm a Spooky Scary Ghost
Before you ask, yes this is me.
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11962
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Posted - 2014.09.04 05:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kin Cat wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. buffing combat rifle damage against armor really doesn't sound like it's supported by any data, in fact the data should support NOT doing so it's bad enough the light weapon damage buff affects the OP combat rifle My instinct tells me it's going to be fine, and I'm a known Gallente loyalist
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
7461
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Posted - 2014.09.04 06:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
As long as the Gallente Assault will get a bonus to its weapon as well as Caldari with Combat Rifle Dispersion increased I'm fine.
Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks
Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2526
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Posted - 2014.09.04 07:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Regardless of whether or not Rattati agrees with your personal assessment, the overall game has improved immensely. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2784
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Posted - 2014.09.04 10:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. Can i like this more? Actually yes, but i'm lazy
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
LOCK REGIONS
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
136
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. definitely a noticeable improvement from before. And yes some of us just want fair balanced warfare and are not FoTM self serving scrubs
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3451
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kin Cat wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. buffing combat rifle damage against armor really doesn't sound like it's supported by any data, in fact the data should support NOT doing so it's bad enough the light weapon damage buff affects the OP combat rifle
Considering the current damage profile actually gives the combat rifle a net gain of approximately 20 DMG the new zero-sum profile is actually a nerf.
Don't forget it will now loose another 40 DPS or so against shields. Otherwise when you take into account the burst delay it's actually on par with most other rifles.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2528
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jace Kaisar wrote:Kin Cat wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. buffing combat rifle damage against armor really doesn't sound like it's supported by any data, in fact the data should support NOT doing so it's bad enough the light weapon damage buff affects the OP combat rifle It needs a damage profile change for sure, and it works as a nice counter to the 20/20 of the scrambler as well. Think about it, Railtech is better at penetrating shields over projectile due to it's high speed making it harder to absorb, but it doesn't deal as much armor damage because it just impacts. Projectiles actually explode as they hit the target (Shrapnel at the least, but I bet you in the future they have made ammo that penetrates and explodes), meaning that it deals more armor damage, but the lower speed means it's easily absorbed by shields. It makes sense to me.
You have it reversed. I re-read your post before i posted this, you kind of have the right idea. Allow me to go more in-depth, as this follows some of the canonical logic of the EVE universe.
shields are stronger against kinetic and explosive impact, giving them better resilience against projectiles, explosives and rail shots. What kills them is high EM and thermal energy. Hence Blaster (plasma) and laser weapons cut the shields harder.
Armor resists EM/thermal style damage better, better diffusion, but is more vulnerable to direct impacts from explosives, projectiles and high-velocity rail shots. hence the dual-layering of protections to where armor tank still has some shield and vice-versa.
But the real reason for having projectiles be the armor-masher is the canonical war between the Amarr and Minmatar. Amarr primarily are rigged to destroy the faster, more fragile Amarr by providing a hard, overlapping defense and inexorable advance coupled with the best armor in the cluster and shield-destroying weaponry intended to kill minmatar shields. Wheras Minmatar are rigged to outflank, skirmish and destroy Amarr armor, utilizing the most crude, yet effective means they can concoct. (Minmatar are known to load nuclear ordinance into their AUTOCANNON ammunition, as well as their artillery) because they have an entire race of people they're desperate to keep out of another enslavement, and they're the most low-tech, and on a shoestring budget compared to the other empires.
Gallente and Caldari tech is actually an outgrowth of the fact that they use the same technology, however the Caldari tend towards heavy shield defenses over armor and prefer using long range and railguns/missiles as their preferred form of engagement. The Gallente are reversed with faster, short-range brawling doctrine utilizing high-energy plasma blasts and heavy regenerating armor to weather the incoming fire. If the Caldari can keep the gallente at range they tend to win. If the gallente get close it's all over but the screaming, bleeding and begging for mercy. |
Jace Kaisar
102
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Jace Kaisar wrote:Kin Cat wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. buffing combat rifle damage against armor really doesn't sound like it's supported by any data, in fact the data should support NOT doing so it's bad enough the light weapon damage buff affects the OP combat rifle It needs a damage profile change for sure, and it works as a nice counter to the 20/20 of the scrambler as well. Think about it, Railtech is better at penetrating shields over projectile due to it's high speed making it harder to absorb, but it doesn't deal as much armor damage because it just impacts. Projectiles actually explode as they hit the target (Shrapnel at the least, but I bet you in the future they have made ammo that penetrates and explodes), meaning that it deals more armor damage, but the lower speed means it's easily absorbed by shields. It makes sense to me. You have it reversed. I re-read your post before i posted this, you kind of have the right idea. Allow me to go more in-depth, as this follows some of the canonical logic of the EVE universe. shields are stronger against kinetic and explosive impact, giving them better resilience against projectiles, explosives and rail shots. What kills them is high EM and thermal energy. Hence Blaster (plasma) and laser weapons cut the shields harder. Armor resists EM/thermal style damage better, better diffusion, but is more vulnerable to direct impacts from explosives, projectiles and high-velocity rail shots. hence the dual-layering of protections to where armor tank still has some shield and vice-versa. But the real reason for having projectiles be the armor-masher is the canonical war between the Amarr and Minmatar. Amarr primarily are rigged to destroy the faster, more fragile Amarr by providing a hard, overlapping defense and inexorable advance coupled with the best armor in the cluster and shield-destroying weaponry intended to kill minmatar shields. Wheras Minmatar are rigged to outflank, skirmish and destroy Amarr armor, utilizing the most crude, yet effective means they can concoct. (Minmatar are known to load nuclear ordinance into their AUTOCANNON ammunition, as well as their artillery) because they have an entire race of people they're desperate to keep out of another enslavement, and they're the most low-tech, and on a shoestring budget compared to the other empires. Gallente and Caldari tech is actually an outgrowth of the fact that they use the same technology, however the Caldari tend towards heavy shield defenses over armor and prefer using long range and railguns/missiles as their preferred form of engagement. The Gallente are reversed with faster, short-range brawling doctrine utilizing high-energy plasma blasts and heavy regenerating armor to weather the incoming fire. If the Caldari can keep the gallente at range they tend to win. If the gallente get close it's all over but the screaming, bleeding and begging for mercy.
Yeah, I worded the rail tech a bit weird. I was meaning that it was better at penetrating shields when compared to projectiles, not better at penetrating shields overall.
Nice lore description though. I would love to have alternate ammunition types in Dust. I want some Depleted Uranium rounds for my Combat Rifle
I'm a Spooky Scary Ghost
Before you ask, yes this is me.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2530
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jace Kaisar wrote:
Yeah, I worded the rail tech a bit weird. I was meaning that it was better at penetrating shields when compared to projectiles, not better at penetrating shields overall.
Nice lore description though. I would love to have alternate ammunition types in Dust. I want some Depleted Uranium rounds for my Combat Rifle
I'm willing to bet what remains in my ISK wallet that alternate ammunition weapons would require a full on patch, not a hotfix. The only weapons that could really hotswap though in EVE for damage types were projectile and rail, or are you talking about the ability to sacrifice damage for range, or vice-versa?
Because I would totally hot-load my HMG with Nuclear. Just because I'm an a**hole. |
Jace Kaisar
108
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Jace Kaisar wrote:
Yeah, I worded the rail tech a bit weird. I was meaning that it was better at penetrating shields when compared to projectiles, not better at penetrating shields overall.
Nice lore description though. I would love to have alternate ammunition types in Dust. I want some Depleted Uranium rounds for my Combat Rifle
I'm willing to bet what remains in my ISK wallet that alternate ammunition weapons would require a full on patch, not a hotfix. The only weapons that could really hotswap though in EVE for damage types were projectile and rail, or are you talking about the ability to sacrifice damage for range, or vice-versa? Because I would totally hot-load my HMG with Nuclear. Just because I'm an a**hole.
Warning: Theorycrafting Inbound
It was mentioned in another thread, but it would be interesting to have alternate ammo as an "equipment" slot.
You would switch to that equip slot, "use" it, and then switch back to the weapon you want to load it in. It would load a single clip into that weapon with changed stats.
I'll use my Depleted Uranium CR for example.
Depleted Uranium deals a mix of damage, with explosive, thermal and Kinetic. Overall, you gain some anti-shield power, and also gain more anti-armor power. It also increases tracking speed, and has no effect on range. Damage is higher than average.
I would then say that it would change the profile to +5 Shields / +15 Armor (This replaces the 20/20), and also increases hipfire accuracy. However, you only have 3 clips of this per slot, meaning that while it is substantially more effective than "standard" projectile ammo, it is limited and can only be picked back up at supply depots (Nanohives are too generic to supply the specialized ammo.)
More theorycrafting: Assaults would gain a bonus to clip amount. Other classes only get 2 clips, Commando's and Assaults get 4 at proto.
Imagine the flexibility. You could load a form of ammo to counter your weakness, or use one to maximize your offense. Or mabye one to increase you range to let you tango with RR's, or give that RR more hipfire to help it in CQC.
Assaults and Commando's would be the most flexible in terms of offensive power hands down. I'd love it.
EDIT: Not sure how to work Proficiency into this yet. Will think of a way that won't make it horrifically OP
I'm a Spooky Scary Ghost
Before you ask, yes this is me.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4142
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. Not to mention the fact that he actually plays the game and will know if a poster is full of ____.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
2536
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Posted - 2014.09.04 18:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:That's why we use supporting data, I never ask a question unless I think I know the answer . If I am completely honest, the forums and data usually agree, which is a wonderful thing. I have also learned, over the past few months, that quite a few players have a very good instinct for what is ok and what is not, are not biased and basically just tell it as it is, even if it may hurt their playstyle. We don't take the undiluted feedback and act, ever. Not to mention the fact that he actually plays the game and will know if a poster is full of ____. I know, sucks all the fun out of sowing disinformation deliberately, doesn't it? |
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