DUST Search - [Feedback] Rewards System, serious question

Breakin Stuff wrote:

There is none, as far as I can tell. I have spent the last three weeks expending inventory without purchasing anything more than what I need to make a fit to expend extraneous items.

ISK gained in three weeks?

11.6 million-ish.

In exchange I have expended at minimum 500 dropsuits (Not including freefits)

Over 200 of those are prototype fits. at the cheapest the prototype fits cost approximately 120,000

So I have pulled a net loss on the prototype alone of 124,000,000 ISK.

This figure doesn't even begin to cover the number of Standard and advanced fits.

Most of these suits were purchased over a long period of time in ones and twos after battles after restocking expended standard fits or filling out BPOs.

Utilizing Aurum fits is amusing but unrewarding, as I have run matches where my Caldari AV fit was used to destroy around 10 vehicles, mostly tanks with a few ADS. I still did not break even on cost-equivalency on that match as I lost four dropsuits racking up that tally of blood.

So serious question: Is there a rewards system plan that doesn't involve keeping everyone who was not able to exploit the district-locking ISK fountain so poor they have to spend real cash on aurum suits?

Because If there is, I'm not seeing it. It's rather disappointing at best.

I have no plans to use anything other than BPOs and the cheapest of fittings once I have expended the inventory, and I'm assuredly not going to purchase any more AUR packs.

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2512	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:12:00 - [1] - Quote There is none, as far as I can tell. I have spent the last three weeks expending inventory without purchasing anything more than what I need to make a fit to expend extraneous items. ISK gained in three weeks? 11.6 million-ish. In exchange I have expended at minimum 500 dropsuits (Not including freefits) Over 200 of those are prototype fits. at the cheapest the prototype fits cost approximately 120,000 So I have pulled a net loss on the prototype alone of 124,000,000 ISK. This figure doesn't even begin to cover the number of Standard and advanced fits. Most of these suits were purchased over a long period of time in ones and twos after battles after restocking expended standard fits or filling out BPOs. Utilizing Aurum fits is amusing but unrewarding, as I have run matches where my Caldari AV fit was used to destroy around 10 vehicles, mostly tanks with a few ADS. I still did not break even on cost-equivalency on that match as I lost four dropsuits racking up that tally of blood. So serious question: Is there a rewards system plan that doesn't involve keeping everyone who was not able to exploit the district-locking ISK fountain so poor they have to spend real cash on aurum suits? Because If there is, I'm not seeing it. It's rather disappointing at best. I have no plans to use anything other than BPOs and the cheapest of fittings once I have expended the inventory, and I'm assuredly not going to purchase any more AUR packs.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 282	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:25:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: There is none, as far as I can tell. I have spent the last three weeks expending inventory without purchasing anything more than what I need to make a fit to expend extraneous items. ISK gained in three weeks? 11.6 million-ish. In exchange I have expended at minimum 500 dropsuits (Not including freefits) Over 200 of those are prototype fits. at the cheapest the prototype fits cost approximately 120,000 So I have pulled a net loss on the prototype alone of 124,000,000 ISK. This figure doesn't even begin to cover the number of Standard and advanced fits. Most of these suits were purchased over a long period of time in ones and twos after battles after restocking expended standard fits or filling out BPOs. Utilizing Aurum fits is amusing but unrewarding, as I have run matches where my Caldari AV fit was used to destroy around 10 vehicles, mostly tanks with a few ADS. I still did not break even on cost-equivalency on that match as I lost four dropsuits racking up that tally of blood. So serious question: Is there a rewards system plan that doesn't involve keeping everyone who was not able to exploit the district-locking ISK fountain so poor they have to spend real cash on aurum suits? Because If there is, I'm not seeing it. It's rather disappointing at best. I have no plans to use anything other than BPOs and the cheapest of fittings once I have expended the inventory, and I'm assuredly not going to purchase any more AUR packs. Sitting at 200 mil+ and run adv suits at the minimum and proto aswell. I still make money
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2990	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:28:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: There is none, as far as I can tell. I have spent the last three weeks expending inventory without purchasing anything more than what I need to make a fit to expend extraneous items. ISK gained in three weeks? 11.6 million-ish. In exchange I have expended at minimum 500 dropsuits (Not including freefits) Over 200 of those are prototype fits. at the cheapest the prototype fits cost approximately 120,000 So I have pulled a net loss on the prototype alone of 124,000,000 ISK. This figure doesn't even begin to cover the number of Standard and advanced fits. Most of these suits were purchased over a long period of time in ones and twos after battles after restocking expended standard fits or filling out BPOs. Utilizing Aurum fits is amusing but unrewarding, as I have run matches where my Caldari AV fit was used to destroy around 10 vehicles, mostly tanks with a few ADS. I still did not break even on cost-equivalency on that match as I lost four dropsuits racking up that tally of blood. So serious question: Is there a rewards system plan that doesn't involve keeping everyone who was not able to exploit the district-locking ISK fountain so poor they have to spend real cash on aurum suits? Because If there is, I'm not seeing it. It's rather disappointing at best. I have no plans to use anything other than BPOs and the cheapest of fittings once I have expended the inventory, and I'm assuredly not going to purchase any more AUR packs. Back in the beta you could easily rake in 300-500K isk with casual play per match, 700K and higher if you were a good tanker. That's not including the officer drops which were a bit more common, so much so that people actually used them in matches. CCP needs to remake the ISK rewards system or at least increase the risk v rewards. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2513	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:40:00 - [4] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Sitting at 200 mil+ and run adv suits at the minimum and proto aswell. I still make money Pretty sure you're the exception, not the rule.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 283	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:47:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Sitting at 200 mil+ and run adv suits at the minimum and proto aswell. I still make money Pretty sure you're the exception, not the rule. I'm pretty sure there are more people like me than you think. It's really not hard to make ISK from regular matches.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2514	Posted - 2014.09.03 14:02:00 - [6] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Sitting at 200 mil+ and run adv suits at the minimum and proto aswell. I still make money Pretty sure you're the exception, not the rule. I'm pretty sure there are more people like me than you think. It's really not hard to make ISK from regular matches. By all means, wow me with your wisdom here. The consistently crap payouts in DUST have been a continual issue that is ignored. So far the only thrown bone has been the LP increase in Facwar, but coupled with ISK costs as it is. Further, my best payout to date (that wasn't a PC victory) has been 433,000 ish ISK. That was running AV in a map where the red dots insisted on lemming running tanks right at me. 90% of games run 175-200k. I average right around 800-1200 WP/match because i'm not running "Can't find me" scout build nor am I an equipment spam logi. So for the rest of us poor mortals, what's the secret to profiting well in pubs? Because in 2 years of play, the only one I have found that works consistently is run cheap/free and don't give a rat's ass about whether or not you win. Because let's face it. You get the same paycheck for winning as losing.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 246	Posted - 2014.09.03 14:42:00 - [7] - Quote Wow, Breakin'. I love your obvious combat tenacity,... but you're ROUGH on your assets. Eve-Online has long since settled into being a game about managing finances. Those players literally learn they have to be entrapenuers just to keep afloat in that game (before they can even consider the expenses of deliberate combat). Dust was meant to be a game where us players are supposed to migrate as QUICKLY as we can into full, contract-driven campaigning (FW being only a mid-step toward Planetary Conquest). We're supposed to be getting our PROFIT from EVE-driven PC. Not from Public Matches. Pub Matches were only supposed to be like "simulation merc life", "simulation combat"---you could earn a LITTLE monies, but it was not meant to be our source of income. PC is supposed to be our source of income/reward. THAT'S what's gone wrong, I'm afraid. Since PC never became the stable, full-blown acheivement that every Dust player would be scrambling to join... we're stuck scraping Pub Matches as our ONLY source of reward. I am really not sure that CCP would ever be willing to admit surrendering PC Matches, and revamp Public Matches to give a larger payout of ANY kind. Yes, it would give us a proper reward for our investments, but it would leave almost ZERO incentive to ever migrate out of Pubs (I know that many drooling players would even reverse-migrate OUT of FW matches entirely, if ISK payout increased in Pubs). I feel for ya, Breakin'. But the only solution I know of is that you be LESS HARSH on your gear (Yikes, Breakin!, you're bleeding cash). Even if you have the suit-fits that will rock the match, use a way-lesser costing fit to ensure you MAKE money in 5 straight matches, before you break out the FUN ($$$) suit for the 6th and 7th match. One of the reasons I'm now confident enough to think of myself as an ADVANCED player, is because I never end an evening of Dust with less ISK and less gear in my living quarters than I started with (and I can make the choice which of the two I want increased, by the end of the night). Pace yourself more, Breakin'. It's good financial thinking! Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 757	Posted - 2014.09.03 15:10:00 - [8] - Quote you people with 100m+ you are in a PC corp and make milliosn easly so dont even start to rant.. i run adv logi most of the time and my cost effectiveness is negative most of the time so iv had to sue standard suits and equip to be cost effeciant to make my isk back legitimatly insted of the typical BPO suit+injector and farm ambush [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2515	Posted - 2014.09.03 15:14:00 - [9] - Quote It has more to do with the fact that CCP put lock timers on PC and then make you pony up 40 mil in order to play that keeps most players out. Oh let's not forget... Locking the districts for over a year. There isn't a high barrier of entry for most players to PC for profit. There is no entry, so as you said... We're stuck with pubs and facwar.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2515	Posted - 2014.09.03 15:16:00 - [10] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: Pace yourself more, Breakin'. It's good financial thinking! I play this game because i love making tanks explode, and watching dropships burn and crash is sublime. I'm not in it for the ISK per se, but having something I can get into that will keep me in Tank murdering fits forever would be nice.

Dreis Shadowweaver D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 112	Posted - 2014.09.03 19:26:00 - [11] - Quote I have multiple variants of the same suit based on ISK cost. My most expensive (excluding Proto, which I hardly ever run) is 50k, and my least expensive is 25k. I'll start a match in a more expensive fit, but if the match starts going badly, I'll use my cheaper fits. Using this method, I pretty much always make a profit from Pub matches. If I do run Proto, I'll only use it once every 50 matches or so. I would use it more often, but right now my Proto fit is no better than my Adv fit. I've been playing for 3 and a half months and I just recently hit 60 million ISK. Anyway, OP, it seems like the solution to your problem is... STOP RUNNING PROTO!! Well, I once meleed an R.E.... I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2518	Posted - 2014.09.03 20:00:00 - [12] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I have multiple variants of the same suit based on ISK cost. My most expensive (excluding Proto, which I hardly ever run) is 50k, and my least expensive is 25k. I'll start a match in a more expensive fit, but if the match starts going badly, I'll use my cheaper fits. Using this method, I pretty much always make a profit from Pub matches. If I do run Proto, I'll only use it once every 50 matches or so. I would use it more often, but right now my Proto fit is no better than my Adv fit. I've been playing for 3 and a half months and I just recently hit 60 million ISK. Anyway, OP, it seems like the solution to your problem is... STOP RUNNING PROTO!! I'm only running proto as an experiment (and flushing my inventory). I normally run standard, but since Sentinels are not survivable without Logi i tend to go through them like aive year old on chicklets. Of course i go through enemy bodies like that too. But my primary and preferred engagement role is AV, which is not ISk-Efficient as a role by any stretch. I was doing this example as a study on how extreme the risk/reward gap is. I think 3 weeks of casual play should net more than 14 mil. (current total, been blowing tanks up all night)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2529	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:01:00 - [13] - Quote Oh, because I can't articulate what I am saying properly: Running proto via pubs is not my objective. I'm not daft enough to think that running nothing but proto should be anything but unprofitable. They're blingfits you pull out when being a sperg or winning is more important than making ISK. What I am advocating is that fully-advanced fitted (no proto mods or weapons) dropsuits should be sustainable profitably overall. Normally from what I see, running all-advanced is a break-even prospect for most people.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2014.09.08 17:36:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh, because I can't articulate what I am saying properly: Running proto via pubs is not my objective. I'm not daft enough to think that running nothing but proto should be anything but unprofitable. They're blingfits you pull out when being a sperg or winning is more important than making ISK. What I am advocating is that fully-advanced fitted (no proto mods or weapons) dropsuits should be sustainable profitably overall. Normally from what I see, running all-advanced is a break-even prospect for most people. There's no problem with your articulation, Breakin'----I for one see your point (...although our side-advice to you still holds; Breakin, go easier with your stuff, or you'll burn yourself out): it WOULD be more profitable for everyone in Pub Matches, if the costs of using advanced fittings and gear were reduced a little, or the payoff for using them increased a little. But unfortunately that creates a core-mechanic issue for CCP. Pub matches were never intended to BE profitable--because when you become good enough to start using advanced or proto sutff, CCP wanted you to move up to FW and PC fighting. Would CCP be willing to admit that PC is NOT going to be the acheivement they had hoped, and thus give up thinking of Pub Matches as just a stepping stone to the more profitable combat tiers? Would they be willing to let us reside in Pub Matches as our meat-n-potatoes, and give us ISK profit to make us comfy using our advance gear in the public fights. I have a feeling the "reside" word (as in, live and operate in Pub matches permanently, and not want to climb into FW/PC), is what will make CCP say, "No" to your proposal. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.


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