DUST Search - Request for Rattati

Monkey MAC wrote:

I-Shayz-I wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be.

Here's why the ASCR sucks so bad:
http://youtu.be/hrVDPmIhkx8

Basically, the kick is similar to the RR, which makes it a very unreliable weapon at long range.
Except that there isn't a skill to reduce the scrambler kick so even the Carthum with prof 5 and 3 damage mods underpreforms

Combine that with a shorter range than the standard scrambler AND the fact that it does 80% damage to armor with no prof bonus makes the weapon suffer when an enemy is barely outside of your optimal.

The horrid kick of the weapon makes it so that only a fraction of shots actually hit the target at range, and when your DPS comes from most of your shots hitting, having the weapon miss so much is terrible.

In CQC, a normal scrambler rifle can take down a sentinel faster than the ASCR because each shot means more...heck, even against caldari suits the ASCR misses too much to feel like much of a threat.

Umm I don't know how to tell you this but there was no recoil there and kick was negligible.
Unless you were compensating for it, the weapon never moved from that caution sign.

Get the ACR and try the same exercise with that, you'll find yourself halfway up the Door.
Get the ARR and try the same execise with that, you'll find the sights jump around like a frog on springs.
What you are prehaps talking about is the ADS dispersion, in which case yes it would probably benifit from a lower ADS dispersion.

For clarification
Kick is how much the site vary/sway from there point of origin after a shot is fired.
High Kick results in the weapons feeling unruly in ADS but will require little actual repositioning.

Recoil is how bad the torque reaction is, as the rifle kicks it moves slightly upwards and to the right (traditionally - for a right handed weapon), HROF weapons typically exhibit the most recoil, this physically changes the aim of the weapon and requires re targeting during prolonged periods of firing.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1714	Posted - 2014.09.03 10:45:00 - [1] - Quote These are the facts: - ScR has highest DPS of all rifles (841 at proto) even if you disregard the charge shot. This is 234 higher than its nearest equivalent (Tac AR). - ScR has even higher burst DPS using a charge shot plus follow ups. Obviously the Tac AR lacks any such ability. - ScR has very long range (96m). Again, this is higher than the other semi-auto, the Tac AR. - ScR has virtually zero kick. Again, kick is significant on Tac AR, even with AR Operation 5. There is no in-game stat for this, but the difference is obvious (just fire them into a wall and watch the climb or lack thereof). - ScR has accuracy rating of 58.2. Again, Tac AR has far lower accuracy of a 47.80. The ScR goes where you want, the Tac AR does not. - ScR has a large magazine (45 rounds). Again, Tac AR's has less than half the magazine size (18). - ScR is a low SP weapon. There is no equivalent to the AR sharpshooter skill for the ScR, so a max SP ScR takes 900,000SP less than equivalent weapons. The ScR effectively gets sharpshooter for free as it has far lower dispersion than Tac AR to start with. The only real drawback of the ScR is the overheat mechanic. Before overheat you still get around the same number of shots (18) as a Tac AR has in its clip, so it's not really limiting in that respect. Nevertheless, there are consequences here that a Tac AR user doesn't face. The overheat animation takes 2 seconds longer than an AR reload, there's a small amount of damage (maybe 50HP?) inflicted on the user, and it's forced so you can't switch to sidearm or run. Overall, though, I don't see how this one drawback, which only happens when the ScR user uses their weapon incorrectly, can possibly compensate for the six or seven major advantages the weapon has. I would say that, if the ScR was exactly the same as the Tac AR, but with a charge shot and overheat, that would seem like quite a balanced weapon - relative to Tac AR, it could deliver amazing burst damage, OHKing with a headshot in many cases, but at the cost of overheating if the weapon was spammed too much. THAT would seem like the kind of weapon that would genuinely reward skilled users. What I don't see, though, is why ScR users need those interesting, high skill mechanics AND a massive DPS, range, kick, and accuracy advantage over the other semi-auto weapon. Anyone can dominate with a weapon that outclasses the direct equivalent so overwhelmingly in almost every area, there is no skill to that. What to do about this? Well ScR and Tac AR need to be brought much more in line with each other, not just in terms of DPS, but also in terms of the overall package (taking into account range, kick, and accuracy). Since according to Rattati the ScR currently outperforms the pack and the Tac AR currently underperforms the pack, and there is a concern over turbo users, I would suggest some or (preferably all) of the following: Reduce ScR RoF, probably to around 500 Increase Tac AR damage per shot Increase Tac AR accuracy rating Decrease Tac AR kick Finally, ScR users, I know you want to keep that RoF, but look at the current ScR vs Tac AR stats. Such a glaring imbalance needs to be addressed. Maybe you think 'buff the Tac AR to ScR RoF levels' is the solution, but the Tac AR had a high RoF in chromosome, it dominated all other weapons and encouraged widespread turbo abuse. As Rattati says, it is not possible to lock out turbos with a hotfix. So ScR DPS has to go down one way or the other, if you don't want RoF to change then it will have to be the other value in the equation, damage. Unless you use a turbo controller a damage reduction will hurt you a lot more. PS - I don't use Tac AR btw, it's just nowhere near viable at the moment. But it is the only other semi-auto and therefore the starting point for ScR balance. Leave no rifle behind TL;DR - ScR vs Tac AR is imbalanced along many dimensions, address by reducing ScR RoF and buffing Tac AR.
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1721	Posted - 2014.09.03 16:06:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Set ROF of both Scrambler and TAR to 600 A slight improvement in respect of the ScR, but why make the TAR more attractive to turbo abusers?
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1721	Posted - 2014.09.03 16:11:00 - [3] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: There are no tweaks for the Assault Scrambler as it may be suffering from Armor tanking environment, unless there is a specific reason you can find, there is nothing in the stats that says it should be. Here's why the ASCR sucks so bad: http://youtu.be/hrVDPmIhkx8 Basically, the kick is similar to the RR, which makes it a very unreliable weapon at long range. Except that there isn't a skill to reduce the scrambler kick so even the Carthum with prof 5 and 3 damage mods underpreforms Combine that with a shorter range than the standard scrambler AND the fact that it does 80% damage to armor with no prof bonus makes the weapon suffer when an enemy is barely outside of your optimal. The horrid kick of the weapon makes it so that only a fraction of shots actually hit the target at range, and when your DPS comes from most of your shots hitting, having the weapon miss so much is terrible. In CQC, a normal scrambler rifle can take down a sentinel faster than the ASCR because each shot means more...heck, even against caldari suits the ASCR misses too much to feel like much of a threat. Umm I don't know how to tell you this but there was no recoil there and kick was negligible. Unless you were compensating for it, the weapon never moved from that caution sign. Get the ACR and try the same exercise with that, you'll find yourself halfway up the Door. Get the ARR and try the same execise with that, you'll find the sights jump around like a frog on springs. What you are prehaps talking about is the ADS dispersion, in which case yes it would probably benifit from a lower ADS dispersion. For clarification Kick is how much the site vary/sway from there point of origin after a shot is fired. High Kick results in the weapons feeling unruly in ADS but will require little actual repositioning. Recoil is how bad the torque reaction is, as the rifle kicks it moves slightly upwards and to the right (traditionally - for a right handed weapon), HROF weapons typically exhibit the most recoil, this physically changes the aim of the weapon and requires re targeting during prolonged periods of firing. I've always understood kick to simply be a colloquial term for recoil, i.e. they are the same thing. But you're right, the video clearly shows there is virtually no recoil when using the AScR.