Francois Sanchez
What The French
Red Whines.
100
   |
Posted - 2014.09.02 10:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Stickied and edited
Thanks for the input.
The fact of the matter is that the weapon's efficiency is considerably higher than the rest of the rifle population.
Those rifles are also measured against Public matches so doesn't create a comparison bias.
Turbo controllers, can be used for more than just the Scrambler, so the numbers should not be biased due to that
It is a skill weapon, for sure, which explains why it is less used than the other rifles.
I also believe, that even with a majority of the playerbase Armor tanking, it is going to be even more efficient through the shield module improvements we are proposing, after swaying more players over to Shield Tanking.
We certainly don't want to overnerf this weapon, just tweak it. ROF changes seem to hit both dps and turbo controllers.
What could be an acceptable reduction in ROF? -The higher efficiency you talk about, does that take into the account that the weapon can overheat, because quite frankly if say an assault rifle deals 450 damage per second while it has a clip that can maintain this damage for 6 seconds and a SCR would deal 450 damage per second but can do this for 2 seconds, then what is its overheat purpose ? kick yourself to the floor while yer assaulting someone? -the rof change will just severly hit None-turbo users as we now might have overlap in shots, turbo controller users are not gonna be affected as they do not need to think much when firing and just get the max dps at all times, where fingers are quite allot less perfect and can mess up. I would propose to Fix the Turbo controller issue first, then see if any of the rifles, you say that more are used with Turbo, then why not FIX that first, level the playing field and then balance the weapons ? It seems a bit counter productive to fix and lower rof on weapons based on turbo controller use, wouldnt it be easier to fox turbo abuse and then see how all the weapons work ? You are never going to balance the weapons when 1 person gets shot with turbo and the other not, but balance it as if it wasn't used with turbo, afterwards, the turbo guy will still have the same advantage as before.
As long as they don't nerf the RoF too heavily, the only guys seeing the difference will be turbo controllers users. Humans generally can't get over 420 RPM, so if they lower it let's say to 500 RPM (so that guys with a trigger speed above average can still benefit of it), only the turbo controllers will be affected.
And with a fire rate of 500 RPM (if you can reach it), you would have a DPS of around 600HP/s without damage mods, fairly over the assault rifle.
Also keep in mind that the scrambler rifle isn't supposed to be only a rapid firing weapon, you're supposed to use the charge shot, and that's that rifle strength. If you prepare a charge shot, and then press the trigger 7 times during the rest of the second (420RPM), you'll easily get over 800HP/s.
So even with the same DPS than an assault rifle (which requires a huge RoF nerf, won't happen I suppose), there would still be a use to the scrambler. Moreover, the 450 DPS of the AR needs all your bullets to hit, whereas the accuracy of the gun isn't that great, especially when compared to the scrambler rifle |
Francois Sanchez
What The French
Red Whines.
101
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 11:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Stickied and edited
Thanks for the input.
The fact of the matter is that the weapon's efficiency is considerably higher than the rest of the rifle population.
Those rifles are also measured against Public matches so doesn't create a comparison bias.
Turbo controllers, can be used for more than just the Scrambler, so the numbers should not be biased due to that
It is a skill weapon, for sure, which explains why it is less used than the other rifles.
I also believe, that even with a majority of the playerbase Armor tanking, it is going to be even more efficient through the shield module improvements we are proposing, after swaying more players over to Shield Tanking.
We certainly don't want to overnerf this weapon, just tweak it. ROF changes seem to hit both dps and turbo controllers.
What could be an acceptable reduction in ROF? -The higher efficiency you talk about, does that take into the account that the weapon can overheat, because quite frankly if say an assault rifle deals 450 damage per second while it has a clip that can maintain this damage for 6 seconds and a SCR would deal 450 damage per second but can do this for 2 seconds, then what is its overheat purpose ? kick yourself to the floor while yer assaulting someone? -the rof change will just severly hit None-turbo users as we now might have overlap in shots, turbo controller users are not gonna be affected as they do not need to think much when firing and just get the max dps at all times, where fingers are quite allot less perfect and can mess up. I would propose to Fix the Turbo controller issue first, then see if any of the rifles, you say that more are used with Turbo, then why not FIX that first, level the playing field and then balance the weapons ? It seems a bit counter productive to fix and lower rof on weapons based on turbo controller use, wouldnt it be easier to fox turbo abuse and then see how all the weapons work ? You are never going to balance the weapons when 1 person gets shot with turbo and the other not, but balance it as if it wasn't used with turbo, afterwards, the turbo guy will still have the same advantage as before. As long as they don't nerf the RoF too heavily, the only guys seeing the difference will be turbo controllers users. Humans generally can't get over 420 RPM, so if they lower it let's say to 500 RPM (so that guys with a trigger speed above average can still benefit of it), only the turbo controllers will be affected. And with a fire rate of 500 RPM (if you can reach it), you would have a DPS of around 600HP/s without damage mods, fairly over the assault rifle. Also keep in mind that the scrambler rifle isn't supposed to be only a rapid firing weapon, you're supposed to use the charge shot, and that's that rifle strength. If you prepare a charge shot, and then press the trigger 7 times during the rest of the second (420RPM), you'll easily get over 800HP/s. So even with the same DPS than an assault rifle (which requires a huge RoF nerf, won't happen I suppose), there would still be a use to the scrambler. Moreover, the 450 DPS of the AR needs all your bullets to hit, whereas the accuracy of the gun isn't that great, especially when compared to the scrambler rifle Seriously, the 420 human rpm crap again ? thats 7 shots a second, 500 is still only 8 shots, i can do 13 a second, now actually landing shots at 13 a second is gonna be an issue, witch the turbo user has no problems with. But really you can only click 7 times a second ? you quickly forget that with the SCR you only have a 2 second of operation time to deal your damage, after those 2 seconds its sidearm or overheat, while the AR has ample clip to keep dealing its damage for the next 4 additional seconds. Basically if you nerf the Scrambler to a maximum of say 16 shots with All skills at level 5 and an amarr Assault suit at lvl V, meaning anyone else using the weapons without those skills is gonna see what 8-10 shots Max, before it overheats, witch in this case means a 1 second of operation time or 620 damage dealt. Hmm 450 Damage/ second over a period of 6 seconds or 620 damage for 1 second with 5 seconds of overheat = 103 dps for the guy picking up the weapon for the first time, i dont think there is gonna be a second time.
The 420RPM is what I find a bit everywhere, of course that's only realistic for people using controllers, you can go much faster with mouse and keyboard, but this is a PS3 game, and I personally see mouse and keyboard as unfair as turbo contoller for the numerous advantages it grants.
Now about the overheat thing, taking into account the time you overheat for your DPS isn't right as the guy is supposed to be dead. A scrambler rifle on an Amarr assault can fire 16 17 or 18 bullets (I don't remember exactly). Without damage mods and proficiency skills the viziam scrambler rifle deals 71 damage per shot. So you can easily get over 1100HP before overheating, outside sentinels, who can take that in the face and survive? And you can always swap to your sidearm before overheating. I've tried a bit the CRW-04 scrambler on my Min scout (no damage mods, no proficiency skills) with a SMG as secondary weapon and I was destroying my opponents whereas I'm far to be an elite player and I probably press the button around 8 times per second to keep my accuracy.
And if the overheat mechanic is fine atm, in what a RoF nerf would change it? The heat is generated by bullet shot and your weapon is cooling between shots if you don't shoot too fast, so I really don't see where the problem is |