DUST Search - [Rattati please glance] Laser damage profile to +15%/-15%

Cat Merc wrote:

zzZaXxx wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Spademan wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from?

According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles.

Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff

Yeah the right amount of direct damage buff would balance it against armor, but that alone would play further into the dominance of armor, since it would then destroy shields even more.

Broader changes are needed to bring shields in balance with armor. Projectile damage change to -15%/+15% will be a big step. A better flaylock will make a dent as well. A balanced scrambler rifle is one step further. A better assault HMG might help.

The sheer difference in HP, the impact of remote reps, having to choose between shielding and damage mods, and flux grenades taking even Caldari sentinel shields down to nothing will keep it imbalanced. But a change in laser damage profile could mitigate that to a great extent.

Or you guys could just add shield transporters to the game. :D

A flux grenade is a specialized grenade since, ya know, it can't actually kill.

If it didn't strip shields it would make it worthless in combat, which would make it used less, which would amplify the problem of equipment spam.

HMG being a projectile weapon would alone make shield heavies much more common from this change.

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zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 461	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:38:00 - [1] - Quote +20%/-20% is too extreme a damage swing for a rifle. This is why the assault scrambler rifle is UP. The scrambler rifle overcomes this by means of its OP mechanics. An extreme damage profile works well for weapons that serve more of a support role. Explosive weapons (mass driver and buffed flaylock) work perfectly in their role as finishers/crowd control. Laser rifles don't suffer much from their extreme damage profile because their role is ranged suppression, but even they would be more balanced with a bit less suppression and a bit more finishing power. All rifles, however, need to have a degree of flexibility. The assault scrambler rifle has none. It starts off strong but can't finish at all against armor. A more balanced profile would allow it to function as a flexible rifle. If you balance the scrambler rifle so that it doesn't cut through everything indiscriminately you'll see that it will have the same problem that the assault scrambler currently has. It will start well but be unable to finish against armor. I think this would also fit perfectly with changing projectile damage profile to -15%/+15%. Change these two damage profiles, balance scrambler rifles, tweak assault scrambler rifle, and buff the flaylock, and shields and armor will be a whole lot closer to balance. +15%/-15% just feels so right doesn't it? I hope you'll consider this. I think it will work out for you.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 122	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:48:00 - [2] - Quote Ratatti if you do this you will completely break lr and make my mistress entirely to op. Bad idea bruh...simple FACT you cannot change laser damage profile to make the difference less without breaking the laser rifle.. Stop trying to balance one weapon by changing a stat that effects 4 guns no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13159	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:54:00 - [3] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: +20%/-20% is too extreme a damage swing for a rifle. This is why the assault scrambler rifle is UP. The scrambler rifle overcomes this by means of its OP mechanics. An extreme damage profile works well for weapons that serve more of a support role. Explosive weapons (mass driver and buffed flaylock) work perfectly in their role as finishers/crowd control. Laser rifles don't suffer much from their extreme damage profile because their role is ranged suppression, but even they would be more balanced with a bit less suppression and a bit more finishing power. All rifles, however, need to have a degree of flexibility. The assault scrambler rifle has none. It starts off strong but can't finish at all against armor. A more balanced profile would allow it to function as a flexible rifle. If you balance the scrambler rifle so that it doesn't cut through everything indiscriminately you'll see that it will have the same problem that the assault scrambler currently has. It will start well but be unable to finish against armor. I think this would also fit perfectly with changing projectile damage profile to -15%/+15%. Change these two damage profiles, balance scrambler rifles, tweak assault scrambler rifle, and buff the flaylock, and shields and armor will be a whole lot closer to balance. +15%/-15% just feels so right doesn't it? I hope you'll consider this. I think it will work out for you. The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3420	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:00:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this ** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community**
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 462	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:12:00 - [5] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Ratatti if you do this you will completely break lr and make my mistress entirely to op. Bad idea bruh...simple FACT you cannot change laser damage profile to make the difference less without breaking the laser rifle.. Stop trying to balance one weapon by changing a stat that effects 4 guns Explain yourself. They'd all be doing a bit less damage against shields, a bit more damage against armor. How would that make the LR OP?
ImIvan 30	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:17:00 - [6] - Quote I don't understand, why is projectitle -15/+15? Should it not be 10/10? or 5/5? I mean, mins dual tank, if anything, Rail should be 15/15 and projectile 10/10 Why must you use prototypes?
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 123	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:19:00 - [7] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Ratatti if you do this you will completely break lr and make my mistress entirely to op. Bad idea bruh...simple FACT you cannot change laser damage profile to make the difference less without breaking the laser rifle.. Stop trying to balance one weapon by changing a stat that effects 4 guns Explain yourself. They'd all be doing a bit less damage against shields, a bit more damage against armor. How would that make the LR OP? Because currently the only suit I can't death touch twice over is the amar sentinel. You talking about lowering it's shield damage..which would not even be noticed..and increasing it's armor damage I'm entirely to drunk to argue on the forums and i have a party to attend but go ahead don't head my warning. Lol really it'll make my day. This really is not the fix you should be pushing for.OH AND WHEREVER You guys get this notion that ASCR IS UNDERPOWERED. YOUR WRONG..ascr is as strong in its situation as my lr. no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13160	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:20:00 - [8] - Quote Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. I was overheating it before the nerf. And yes that meant given my role as Ultimate Suppression Fighter (aka Commando) I was putting 100+ bullets down range as quickly as possible. There was no reason for the ASCR to have to overheat, even though it could. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 462	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:20:00 - [9] - Quote There's no reason at all for people to shield tank right now when there are rifles that do +20% (base) dmg at extreme ROF against shields. It's too risky. Ask any Caldari sentinel. That frame is unusable. At the same time the ASR can't hold up against armor and scrambler rifle might have the same issue if its balanced to not destroy everything.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 124	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:25:00 - [10] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: There's no reason at all for people to shield tank right now when there are rifles that do +20% (base) dmg at extreme ROF against shields. It's too risky. Ask any Caldari sentinel. That frame is unusable. At the same time the ASR can't hold up against armor and scrambler rifle might have the same issue if its balanced to not destroy everything. You wanna do it go a - ******* - head but don't get on this forum bitching and crying for my laser. Rifle to be nerfed when you walk into my beam with 1200 armor and die instantly no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil

Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 124	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:31:00 - [11] - Quote This is a nice nerf all laser weapons thread designed to look. Like a fix ascr thread. No one shield tanks op says..laser weapons are over powered op says lol nice try no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 502	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:58:00 - [12] - Quote Question Rati, Are you sure if the ASR is underperforming because it's a bad weapon, or is it "underperforming" because the Scrambler Rifle is so much more effective and costs less?
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 463	Posted - 2014.09.02 00:47:00 - [13] - Quote I can see that one side effect of changing the laser rifle's damage profile would be that this change would most often come into play when its heat is pretty built up, so the 5% increase in armor damage would get a further mulitplier. (Having worked into armor by the point its heat is built up past the halfway point.)
Joel II X Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3235	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:15:00 - [14] - Quote ImIvan wrote: I don't understand, why is projectitle -15/+15? Should it not be 10/10? or 5/5? I mean, mins dual tank, if anything, Rail should be 15/15 and projectile 10/10 Because they wouldn't design a weapon that's specified to kill them? They're going against the Amarr, who have all armor and no shields. So -15%/+15% is good. The hybrid weapons are the confusing ones since the Caldari or Gallente aren't supposed to hybrid tank.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 463	Posted - 2014.09.02 01:41:00 - [15] - Quote For Amarr and Caldari the weapons' range has more connection with the lore. Caldari want to engage slow Gallente armor tankers at range with hard hitting rails that impact harder against armor. Gallente want to get up close and blast holes in Caldari shields with plasma, which eats through shields but can't travel far without dispersing. On the other hand, the Amarr designed lasers specifically to cut through Minmatar shields and get to the junk underneath, regardless of range. And again with Minmatar the range isn't an issue. They just want to plant their bullets into Amarr armor--Matari jury rigged bullets with corrosive or explosive elements in them that release on impact, thus dealing further damage to armor. :D

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6451	Posted - 2014.09.02 04:57:00 - [16] - Quote Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 192	Posted - 2014.09.02 05:18:00 - [17] - Quote How to fix AScR: Make the damage build up like Laser Rifles, but on a much smaller scale. Something like +1% more damage for every 19% heat buildup.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 464	Posted - 2014.09.02 05:51:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff Yeah the right amount of direct damage buff would balance it against armor, but that alone would play further into the dominance of armor, since it would then destroy shields even more. Broader changes are needed to bring shields in balance with armor. Projectile damage change to -15%/+15% will be a big step. A better flaylock will make a dent as well. A balanced scrambler rifle is one step further. A better assault HMG might help. The sheer difference in HP, the impact of remote reps, having to choose between shielding and damage mods, and flux grenades taking even Caldari sentinel shields down to nothing will keep it imbalanced. But a change in laser damage profile could mitigate that to a great extent. Or you guys could just add shield transporters to the game. :D
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11933	Posted - 2014.09.02 06:12:00 - [19] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff Yeah the right amount of direct damage buff would balance it against armor, but that alone would play further into the dominance of armor, since it would then destroy shields even more. Broader changes are needed to bring shields in balance with armor. Projectile damage change to -15%/+15% will be a big step. A better flaylock will make a dent as well. A balanced scrambler rifle is one step further. A better assault HMG might help. The sheer difference in HP, the impact of remote reps, having to choose between shielding and damage mods, and flux grenades taking even Caldari sentinel shields down to nothing will keep it imbalanced. But a change in laser damage profile could mitigate that to a great extent. Or you guys could just add shield transporters to the game. :D A flux grenade is a specialized grenade since, ya know, it can't actually kill. If it didn't strip shields it would make it worthless in combat, which would make it used less, which would amplify the problem of equipment spam. HMG being a projectile weapon would alone make shield heavies much more common from this change. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 464	Posted - 2014.09.02 06:40:00 - [20] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff Yeah the right amount of direct damage buff would balance it against armor, but that alone would play further into the dominance of armor, since it would then destroy shields even more. Broader changes are needed to bring shields in balance with armor. Projectile damage change to -15%/+15% will be a big step. A better flaylock will make a dent as well. A balanced scrambler rifle is one step further. A better assault HMG might help. The sheer difference in HP, the impact of remote reps, having to choose between shielding and damage mods, and flux grenades taking even Caldari sentinel shields down to nothing will keep it imbalanced. But a change in laser damage profile could mitigate that to a great extent. Or you guys could just add shield transporters to the game. :D A flux grenade is a specialized grenade since, ya know, it can't actually kill. If it didn't strip shields it would make it worthless in combat, which would make it used less, which would amplify the problem of equipment spam. HMG being a projectile weapon would alone make shield heavies much more common from this change. That is an excellent point. I have a suggestion that could solve the problem! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174413&find=unread

Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 48	Posted - 2014.09.02 06:49:00 - [21] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: How to fix AScR: Make the damage build up like Laser Rifles, but on a much smaller scale. Something like +1% more damage for every 19% heat buildup. Ooo now there's something interesting it surely would be helpful in dealing with tanked suits and prolonged engagements. "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 131	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:11:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff The gun is useful on gal fortress in the face of cal an minnie medium and light suit spam..A few other cqc maps 2..but only vs shield suits..If you do alter any damage profiles make sure what you do effects ascr only.not lr or scr..ops suggestion would make my lr which is on the verge of being op..op no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2476	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:35:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff This is precisely why my amarr commando suits dont see much use. The overheat I could care less about. The ineffectiveness agains a population if 70%+ armor makes it a dumb weapon to deploy since I rely on my ability to actually spam the trigger on scrambler rifles with my actual finger. The assault just has utter crap damage output.
CommanderBolt Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1458	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:54:00 - [24] - Quote I dunno man, even with just my Templar LR I find the average target melts no matter if he is shield tanking or armour tanking. I cant speak to PC levels of gameplay as I am just going off pubs but for the LR at least I have no problems. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3424	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:11:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this ** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff Oh? So it had been underperforming before the heat number tweaks? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community**
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3417	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:22:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this ** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff If it is down to the prelevance armour, then the Armour/Shield Imbalance needs fixing. Buffing shield based weapons to deal with armour based suits just marginalises shields even more! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2477	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:53:00 - [27] - Quote The asscram does less damage proportionally. The regular scram I agree with Slso referring to the templar scram: pubs are filled with militia ISK farmers. Use it on anyone else sometime. Its effective-ish but you aren't going to outshoot another weapon class however there is a caveat here. Putting a couple damage mods on the templar will cause it to outperform a similarly modded adv asscram if you lead off with charged shot.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 465	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:36:00 - [28] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff If it is down to the prelevance armour, then the Armour/Shield Imbalance needs fixing. Buffing shield based weapons to deal with armour based suits just marginalises shields even more! Yes and they have to be very careful about that! As for the laser rifle becoming OP if laser damage profile is changed, that could be an issue. It could be solved simply by decreasing LR base damage, or by lessening the increase in damage as it heats up. ASR would be balanced by the change, and--if it's well balanced in Delta--so would the scrambler rifle. It would also make the scrambler pistol a better finisher, which is important for a sidearm. Most importantly it would enable shields to withstand a bit more of the damage coming in, and armor a bit less. Right now shields are subjected to too much rapid damage. Even if you're Caldari you're forced to think of your shields as a buffer before they get to your lasting defense--armor. Hopefully this will be considered for Hotfix Echo but first we have to see what impact the changes to scrambler rifle, flaylock, and projectile damage make.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2479	Posted - 2014.09.02 15:41:00 - [29] - Quote unless Rattati slips and misplaces a decimel point, I doubt the asscram will be more DPS-efficient than the GAR. Slightly better vs. Shield suits, tolerable vs. armor suits.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:30:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Assault Scrambler Rifle was never under powered? Where are people pulling this **** from? According to Rattati since the gun was actually capable of overheating it dropped to one of the least used and least effective rifles. Nope, nothing to do with overheating, I think it's just the prevalence of armor out there, but it can use a little direct dmg buff My thoughts exactly. The Carthum was massively nerfed when the proficiency skill was adjusted to damage preference. This slashed about 15% of a veterans armor damage with this gun (and the Tac ScR). The weapon is in dire need of some adjustment. Not only to make it good on an Amarr suit, but also other suits where users like to run a ranged auto weapon against heavies with burst HMGs. We cant all depend on the rail rifle for that lol



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