DUST Search - Who should win the EWAR race, the scanner or the scanned?

White-Lion wrote:

Leadfoot10 wrote:

In past builds, the maxed out scanner was always able to scan his enemies.

As it sits today, a scout with a few dampners wins the EWAR race in that nobody can scan him.

Which is right? Which is better for gameplay?

Should the scanner or the scanned win the EWAR race?

Why not have both passive and active scans precision be increasingly better up close and get worse over distance. That way a proto focused scanner on a gal logi would be able to pick up any scout (except gal scout) from roughly 5-10m while facing its direction, but it wouldn't be able to pick up that same fitted scout from any farther. I think that would be beneficial to all scout and scanners, scouts would have to be more careful who and when they walk in front of someone, and it would push people with scanners to be more careful i choosing on when to scan because they need to be looking at the scout and be able to find him befor he passive scans him.

I dunno just spouting ideas, thought that was a good one!

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Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6754	Posted - 2014.08.27 21:40:00 - [31] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Specific Race + Specific Suit = Specialized Suites No longer a 1 scanner and 360 jump for all... no one even bothers to use focused scanner+proto gal logi.. PC more brah. OH runs a Gal Logi with focused scans. I know this because I get the extremely rare YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED message at the top of my screen. Leadfoot10 wrote: Cruor Abominare wrote: Since the scout revisit the balance is that a cloak with two damps will avoid every suit scan in the game. Its the trade off for being so damn squishy. That said no one can hide from the gal logi with proto focus scans which is always a good fall back. However no one seems to want to run gal logi and would rather complain. FYI: Double dampened Gal Scouts (13.36db) and double dampened & cloaked Cal Scouts (14.15db) evade even the best Gal Logi focused scanner (15db). Min Scouts and Amarr don't share in this though. I find Gal Logi's to be more common on the outside points, because this is where Min/Amarr are more prevalent. With the changes to eWAR, the Min Scout is hands down the best suit in the game to try and hit homepoint. They can damp enough to drop below every scouts scans with cloak, and they can still hack the point in around 5s. You'd be surprised how easy it is to cloak up and watch an objective, to wait until the scout gets too far from the point and then to run up, flux and hack. Once you have the hack going, they are on the defensive and the point is basically yours. Without more help or a speed hack suit, you will always be able to spawn in on links and kill them before the re-hack. Amarr Scouts are great because they can pick up Min Scouts who aren't cloaked up and 2x damped. I saw Viktor playing for OH and doing fairly well on bridge map because we had to be cloaked to dodge his scans. Couple this with a shotgun and ample armor, and he was pretty hard to kill on his terms. FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1315	Posted - 2014.08.27 21:58:00 - [32] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: Thumb Green wrote: The scanner. I figure it's the same as cryptography, nothing is uncrackable. I would argue that deception always outpaces detection of deception (I can support with evidence if you like). I think the investment to remain undetectable is probably a little low right now, but 360 permascans make running an EWAR scout a completely untenable position. A piece of equipment shouldn't relegate an entire play style to the trash heap. I say this as someone who most frequently runs a gal scout and gal logi. -Aramis The "defense" advances to where the "offense" is pretty ineffective but eventually the "offense" advances far enough to smash through the "defense" and then the cycle repeats. Cryptography is the perfect example unless you want to get medieval; where at first people built wooden walls and gates which worked well until someone invented the battering ram. Then they moved to stone walls and metal gates which worked well until the catapult was invented. Then fast forward to modernish times and we're building bunkers that worked well until someone invented the bunker buster. It's really a cat and mouse thing where the "defense" is the mouse and the "offense" is the cat. Sooner or later the cat catches the mouse. At the RJC we don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Fix supply depots
Death Shadow117 New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 324	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:05:00 - [33] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think people should be able to get under scans, but I think it should be a situation where they are not a serious threat when doing so. They should be made of glass. I always thought it would be cool to have a stealth uplink. Like 5 spawns and it's done. In other words the completely undetectable scout comes in a drops an uplink, squad spawns in. What I don't like is a dude that is not detectable going beast mode killing everything that moves all game. UUUUUUUUUMMMMMM hides in shadows with shotgun Why?
Patrlck 56 482	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:57:00 - [34] - Quote If damps can't outperform scans, then what would be the point in dampening at all?
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2203	Posted - 2014.08.27 23:13:00 - [35] - Quote Scanned. The advantages the scanner receives compared to the scanned staying under scans are undeniable. Example--Minmitar scout vs. Amarr Scout The min scout has 3x dampeners and dodges the Am scout with 2x Precisions Now, the scouts are both in the dark, vs. Min scout 2x dampeners Am scout 2x precisions Min scout is scanned by the Am scout, but cannot scan him back "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 3128	Posted - 2014.08.28 00:09:00 - [36] - Quote If you mean actually built towards it then a dampened scout should be able to beat passive scanning in general and be picked up by active scanners in general with some tweaking done to all three The last thing we want is someone being completely invisible or someone able to see everyone with no downsides
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 527	Posted - 2014.08.28 00:31:00 - [37] - Quote I think dampeners should win the EWAR passively, but I think a maxed out Gal Logi with a maxed out scanner should be able to detect scouts, regardless of dampeners. The thing that people are over looking about the scanners is the fact that they have a cooldown and a limited scan radius (You can't twirl anymore with scanners, that's an outdated argument.) It also only lasts around 7 seconds meaning the scout can out run the scanner and his squad. If the scout then uses a cloak they should be unscannable while their cloak is active if they are dampened enough to avoid passive scans as this too is an equipment working on a cool down. TL;DR: The dampeners should win the EWAR against passive scans but only the cloak + dampeners should win the EWAR against Gal logis. Dampeners alone should not passively dodge maxed out gal logis with maxed scanners.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 416	Posted - 2014.08.28 00:54:00 - [38] - Quote Dampeners. Thats the point of using them. Snigle pice of eqiupment shouldnt scan a suit that sacrafise all/most his low (only lows matters for scouts) slots + proto cloak (that eats ton of PG/CPU). Gal logi already scan everything but maxed dampened scouts. Go into PC where gallogi with 4scanners lights almost every person at 100m range. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
White-Lion Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.08.28 01:43:00 - [39] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: In past builds, the maxed out scanner was always able to scan his enemies. As it sits today, a scout with a few dampners wins the EWAR race in that nobody can scan him. Which is right? Which is better for gameplay? Should the scanner or the scanned win the EWAR race? Why not have both passive and active scans precision be increasingly better up close and get worse over distance. That way a proto focused scanner on a gal logi would be able to pick up any scout (except gal scout) from roughly 5-10m while facing its direction, but it wouldn't be able to pick up that same fitted scout from any farther. I think that would be beneficial to all scout and scanners, scouts would have to be more careful who and when they walk in front of someone, and it would push people with scanners to be more careful i choosing on when to scan because they need to be looking at the scout and be able to find him befor he passive scans him. I dunno just spouting ideas, thought that was a good one!
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 245	Posted - 2014.08.28 01:54:00 - [40] - Quote If scouts are always scanned is everyone fine with tanked warrior scouts? Because if they aren't putting eWar and biotic modules in they are stuffing those low slots with armour modules... Players adapt and if your most dampened suit is getting seen all the time you might as well go kinetic or armoured. My take on 514: Five Empires, One Dead, Four Alive

Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 247	Posted - 2014.08.28 01:56:00 - [41] - Quote White-Lion wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: In past builds, the maxed out scanner was always able to scan his enemies. As it sits today, a scout with a few dampners wins the EWAR race in that nobody can scan him. Which is right? Which is better for gameplay? Should the scanner or the scanned win the EWAR race? Why not have both passive and active scans precision be increasingly better up close and get worse over distance. That way a proto focused scanner on a gal logi would be able to pick up any scout (except gal scout) from roughly 5-10m while facing its direction, but it wouldn't be able to pick up that same fitted scout from any farther. I think that would be beneficial to all scout and scanners, scouts would have to be more careful who and when they walk in front of someone, and it would push people with scanners to be more careful i choosing on when to scan because they need to be looking at the scout and be able to find him befor he passive scans him. I dunno just spouting ideas, thought that was a good one! Totally agree specially for vehicles scan range should be much larger.... A 150dB tank should be on the scanner at a much longer range. My take on 514: Five Empires, One Dead, Four Alive
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1400	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:48:00 - [42] - Quote Thanks for all the replies, guys. I appreciate it. For those of you who don't know, I play a scanner in our PCs and have been doing so since the introduction of EWAR. I've got the Gal Logi, Cal Scout, and Amarr scout (and all requisite skills) maxed out. I know the role well, but I've also been struggling with how to adapt to the new battelfield where there's nothing I can do against dampened scouts (except be a good bullet/NK sponge) -- and then the idea for this thread came to me yesterday. Because, IMO, the balance of power has gone too far towards dampening over scanning, with the scanner really having no counter and the scanned still being very lethal and effective (particularly in groups). I liked two ideas expressed in this thread: First, the idea that the Gal Logi scanner should be able to detect all scouts. Second, the idea of falloff. Both would help even the balance of power and make the battlefield more diverse -- which I think is a good thing, but I also cannot dismiss the self-interest in that observation either. Anyway, thanks again for the comments, ideas, and discussion -- I appreciate it.


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