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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3378	Posted - 2014.08.27 11:12:00 - [1] - Quote So I'll start by quoting this statement from Rattati. CCP Rattati wrote: Actually I just gave the CPM a heads up yesterday that the scrambler is outperforming other rifles right now, yet the assault scrambler is one of the worst performers, along with all the GA Assault Rifles, still... So it's obvious that many of the rifles (4 Blaster Variants + 1 Scrambler Variant ~ 50%) aren't working as they should be and at least 1 of them is OVER performing. But the big question is do we bump up the 50% not working well enough or do we bring down the 50% working too well? Currently the AR has 44m Optimal Range and about 450 DPS at PRO level. I'm sure most of you agree that 450 DPS is more than sufficent for a rifle. Because of this I'm going to use the Gallante Assault Rifle as the yard stick, everything else will be in comparison to that rifle. Gallante Assault Rifle: Optimal:44m Effective:72 DPS: 453 TTE: 4.5 Secs (Time to empty magazine) First let's look at the other Rifles and their Variants Burst Combat Rifle: Optimal:61m(+17m) Effective:77(+5m) DPS:594(+141) TTE: 2.7 Secs (3.35 with Min Assault Lvl 5) Assuming fire at full auto, is possible. Assault Combat Rifle: Optimal:50m(+6m) Effective:77(+5m) DPS:420(-33) TTE: 3.4 Secs (4.25 with Min Assault Lvl 5) Scrambler Rifle: Optimal:72m(+28m) Effective:83m(+11m) DPS: 572(+119) TTOH: 2 Seconds (2.5 Seconds with Am Assault Lvl 5) Assault Scrambler Rifle: Optimal:55m(+11m) Effective:83m(+11m) DPS:420(-33) TTE: 6.5 Seconds (Overheat not calculated, from experience 5 seconds) Rail Rifle: Optimal:72m(+28m) Effective:94m(+22m) DPS:397(-56) TTE: 5.5 Seconds Assault Rail Rifle: Optimal:72m(+28m) Effective:94m(+22m) DPS: 400(-53) TTE: 4.2 Seconds As you can see in comparison the ACR and ARR the Assault Rifle is relatively balanced it has the best DPS and largest relative mag size. However the ARR does need a range nerf, my personal suggestion would be about 60m optimal. The ACR can be seen as over performing because it's profile gives an effective 5% damage boost (not calcualated), this needs to be rectified. The AScR we can see is underperforming purely because of it's Shield weighted damage profile, doing anything to this weapon would overpower it. The RR is perfectly balanced by comparison better suited to long term engagements outside the effective range of most of the other weapons, this is fine and balanced. The BCR is too easy to abuse, when fired at full auto it has ridicuolus DPS and range, which in turn with the projectile damage profile ends in devastating results, I suggest a higher forced delay between burst, such that only 4 bursts per second is capable, then a damage rebalance to approximatly 410 DPS The ScR is equally easy to abuse, when fired at 8 shots per second it too has riduicuolus DPS and range, pair this with a larg mag and relatively easy to avoid overheat function and you have weapon that just chews through the enemy. From this it's obvious why the BCR and ScR are overperforming, making the GAR obselete. I will edit this post later to include the other Gallante Variants. So onto the Gallante Assault Rifle Variants, we have 3 other variants (which are designed to immatate and competde with the function the other 4 rifles provide). In the comparison below I will show why the Basic Assault Rifle is pretty much best of a bad bunch, with the exception of the TACAR when being fired at almost full auto. Breach Assault Rifle: Optimal:44m(+0m) Effective:72m(+0m) DPS:399(-54) TTE: 5.1 Secs Burst Assault Rifle: Optimal:50m(+6m) Effective:72m (+0m) DPS:428(-25) TTE: 5.0 Secs (Assumes 4x 3-round burst a second: 1 burst less than full auto) Tactical Assault Rifle: Optimal:55m(+11m) Effective: 77m (+5m) DPS: 582(+129) TTE: 2.25 Secs (Assumes 8 rounds a second: Almost perfect fully automatic fire) As you can see, the Breach Variant is actually completly useless, it sacrifices over 50 DPS putting it on par with Rail Rifle, but with no extra range. Literally the only reason to use this variant is if you don't like HROF or are a masochistic personality. I would suggest a huge ramge buff so it clocks in at 5m below the RR optimal. The Burst is comparable assuming you can maintain 4 bursts a second, for 5 seconds. Unlike the BCR the BurstAR actually has a decent sized delay meaning more than 4 bursts is almost impossible. In any case an extra 5m would probably domthe trick. Finally is the tac, suprisingly if Rattati is correct, there is no reason not tomuse this weapon. It functions almost exactly the same as the ScR just without the charge shot. It also doesn't suffer the supposedly crippling overheat, but simply reloads instead. It leaves a big question as to why the ScR is overperforming, yet the almost identical TAC is not. It may be in any case the range, or lack thereof. Even being the longest range AR it still comes in under the Burst Combat Rifle. In anycase it needs a damage nerf to bring it line with my newly proposed ScR (I would suggest reducing the heat cost of the charge shot slightly, otherwise the new ScR has nothing going for it), little extra mag to make up for it lack of charge shot and decent range buff. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 726	Posted - 2014.08.27 12:08:00 - [2] - Quote Good analysis and I agree with your suggestions. Though I somewhat disagree with the assessment of the RR: its getting around a 60% range increase (optimal) for an 11% damage reduction. Alt of Halla Murr.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5829	Posted - 2014.08.27 15:28:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks. We went through a range pass in Bravo and i would prefer not to change those this time around. My preferred options are simply increase damage of all AR's, GA, they are sacrificing range for power increase hip fire dispersion of RR, shouldn't be as effective at long and short increase dmg on AScr, simply not as good as the others increase delay on Combat Rifle, and fix the +10/-5 profile I think Haerr had a good analysis on what to do with the normal scrambler "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2335	Posted - 2014.08.27 15:47:00 - [4] - Quote Good options. Any chance of changing scram heat to "per shot" rather than "per second?"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2990	Posted - 2014.08.27 15:48:00 - [5] - Quote While you're in there you should change all of the instances of "Assault Rifle" to "Plasma Rifle" Far less confusing to new players who think all of the rifles are "Assault Rifles", I still get new players asking me to clarify that.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2335	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:17:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: While you're in there you should change all of the instances of "Assault Rifle" to "Plasma Rifle" Far less confusing to new players who think all of the rifles are "Assault Rifles", I still get new players asking me to clarify that. Dear God yes
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1449	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:18:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: While you're in there you should change all of the instances of "Assault Rifle" to "Plasma Rifle" Far less confusing to new players who think all of the rifles are "Assault Rifles", I still get new players asking me to clarify that. Not gonna happen... Something about changing all the instances of Assault Rifle in game descriptions and confusing people and keeping with other games and being non-critical. I think these are all the reasons Rattati has used. Apparently some buddies of mine saw him in a game the other day.. Not the greatest Heavy, perhaps go back to the Plasma Rifle, Rattati? If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2336	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:25:00 - [8] - Quote Soloing in a fatsuit is always sub-optimal. You wouldn't believe how much having two assault flankers increases your combat efficiency and survivability.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2990	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:53:00 - [9] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Apparently some buddies of mine saw him in a game the other day.. Not the greatest Heavy, perhaps go back to the Plasma Rifle, Rattati? Assault Rifle*
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3229	Posted - 2014.08.27 17:14:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks. We went through a range pass in Bravo and i would prefer not to change those this time around. My preferred options are simply increase damage of all AR's, GA, they are sacrificing range for power increase hip fire dispersion of RR, shouldn't be as effective at long and short increase dmg on AScr, simply not as good as the others increase delay on Combat Rifle, and fix the +10/-5 profile I think Haerr had a good analysis on what to do with the normal scrambler All good ideas, but the breach AR will always be inferior to the assault variant until it has more range. This is true for all weapons of the breach class except those that don't follow rifle nomenclature (like the breach forge gun). RoF is king of CQC and unless you bump up the damage on the breach AR substantially (to a number above the assault variant) it is simply an under performer mathematically. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich

bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1042	Posted - 2014.08.27 17:35:00 - [11] - Quote OP the Tac AR is horrible. You don't understand why? Kick and manual fire (not automatic) make it difficult to use. You're MUCH better off with a RR because it's fully auto, even though the kick is even worse.There's also the damage profile being bad against armor. Shields in this game are UP. *Eternal Beings* - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1272	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:24:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks. We went through a range pass in Bravo and i would prefer not to change those this time around. My preferred options are simply increase damage of all AR's, GA, they are sacrificing range for power increase hip fire dispersion of RR, shouldn't be as effective at long and short increase dmg on AScr, simply not as good as the others increase delay on Combat Rifle, and fix the +10/-5 profile I think Haerr had a good analysis on what to do with the normal scrambler Erhm this might be a case of mistaken identity... At least I can not remember saying anything about the ScR. This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 763	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:37:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: While you're in there you should change all of the instances of "Assault Rifle" to "Plasma Rifle" Far less confusing to new players who think all of the rifles are "Assault Rifles", I still get new players asking me to clarify that. id prefer it be called a blaster rifle.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3380	Posted - 2014.08.27 19:25:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks. We went through a range pass in Bravo and i would prefer not to change those this time around. My preferred options are simply increase damage of all AR's, GA, they are sacrificing range for power No 450 is already enough, any more than that and you risk over powering them, afterall what good is eHP in a track shooter when 100 extra health is the difference between you dying in 1 second or 1.2 seconds. increase hip fire dispersion of RR, shouldn't be as effective at long and short I agree, although not too much you don't want to make it entirely useless at short range, kinda defeats the purpose of it being a multi-purpose rifle increase dmg on AScr, simply not as good as the others It's actually already as good as the ACR, it's the damage profile on this weapon, armour is currently the favoured tank type. You risk overpowering it, especially when for the same damage it already has a longer range increase delay on Combat Rifle, and fix the +10/-5 profile Wholeheartedly agree on that, no further comment. I think Haerr had a good analysis on what to do with the normal scrambler Will check it out and give my opinion on that thread. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 437	Posted - 2014.08.27 20:52:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks. We went through a range pass in Bravo and i would prefer not to change those this time around. My preferred options are simply increase damage of all AR's, GA, they are sacrificing range for power increase hip fire dispersion of RR, shouldn't be as effective at long and short increase dmg on AScr, simply not as good as the others increase delay on Combat Rifle, and fix the +10/-5 profile I think Haerr had a good analysis on what to do with the normal scrambler Yes yes! All good ideas. More damage will effectively increase the AR's range a bit while buffing it in its ideal role: running into someone's face and hip fire blasting them into plasma-y globs. Breach AR needs a lot more damage to be useful. With enough damage it could be a solid choice for CQC, especially for Gallente Assault. RR -- Yes. With it's sniping capabilities CQC effectiveness needs a bit more sacrifice (would work nicely with a kick bonus for Caldari assault, rewarding specialization and buffing Cal Assault a bit in CQC). AScr -- Yes. The heat increase makes it more interesting and require a bit more skill, and it benefits more from specialization. A damage increase would address the current imbalance. Combat Rifle -- Yes! A great way to nerf it a bit while taking away less from players that have good aim with it. Also makes the ACR more distinct!
Zindorak 1.U.P 698	Posted - 2014.08.27 21:04:00 - [16] - Quote Give Burst AR the ability to burst cancel like the CR Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.08.27 23:26:00 - [17] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Good analysis and I agree with your suggestions. Though I somewhat disagree with the assessment of the RR: its getting around a 60% range increase (optimal) for an 11% damage reduction. Eh. Monkey just has a hard on for fully automatic weapons, but is angry that he can't use semiautomatics as well as those who have trained to use them well. So he has gone on a crusade to nerf semiautomatics into absolesence. What a scrub.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3382	Posted - 2014.08.27 23:33:00 - [18] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Good analysis and I agree with your suggestions. Though I somewhat disagree with the assessment of the RR: its getting around a 60% range increase (optimal) for an 11% damage reduction. Eh. Monkey just has a hard on for fully automatic weapons, but is angry that he can't use semiautomatics as well as those who have trained to use them well. So he has gone on a crusade to nerf semiautomatics into absolesence. What a scrub. Such well formed arguments, my goodness how could I possibly retaliate? I've no problem with semi-auto weapons, after all I use the Scrambler rifle Scrambler Pistol Ion Pistol Flaylock Mass Driver Shotgun Sniper Rifle All of which are semi-auto weapons, the thing is I can spam the ScR at about 10 shots a second myself, but because the ROF is so much strictly regulated on the other weapons I can't suddenly out perform 'those who haven't trained to use them well' because I'm capable of pulling am extra 250 DPS over them. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 157	Posted - 2014.08.27 23:41:00 - [19] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Good analysis and I agree with your suggestions. Though I somewhat disagree with the assessment of the RR: its getting around a 60% range increase (optimal) for an 11% damage reduction. Eh. Monkey just has a hard on for fully automatic weapons, but is angry that he can't use semiautomatics as well as those who have trained to use them well. So he has gone on a crusade to nerf semiautomatics into absolesence. What a scrub. Such well formed arguments, my goodness how could I possibly retaliate? I've no problem with semi-auto weapons, after all I use the Scrambler rifle Scrambler Pistol Ion Pistol Flaylock Mass Driver Shotgun Sniper Rifle All of which are semi-auto weapons, the thing is I can spam the ScR at about 10 shots a second myself, but because the ROF is so much strictly regulated on the other weapons I can't suddenly out perform 'those who haven't trained to use them well' because I'm capable of pulling am extra 250 DPS over them. I have a hard time believing that you can fire at 600 RoF. I thought you liked math that didn't lie?
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization 2570	Posted - 2014.08.28 04:04:00 - [20] - Quote Simple solution 110% damage to shields within 20m 120% damage to shields within 10m Remove the TAC and Burst they were placeholders and the only official word by CCP was they were to be removed once the other racial weapons were added.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1021	Posted - 2014.08.28 08:23:00 - [21] - Quote The breach always did feel worthless... Woot for 5% higher rof! And moar range! Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 42	Posted - 2014.08.28 09:12:00 - [22] - Quote Even in its current state I prefer the breach over the assault but a buff would be well welcomed specially for the tac ar because I enjoyed using that one just as much as the breach but when I came faced with a heavy or a armor tanked suit I might as well have been throwing rocks at the guy. "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 652	Posted - 2014.08.28 09:41:00 - [23] - Quote i can agree.. my alt uses standard AR and it blows even at 30m range.. sucks hard at less then 15m the best range was around 16-25 range but even then burst CR and Railrifle dominate vs AR AR could do with a bit of a buff at closer rangers to make it the CQB's choice weapon and perhaps counterpart to the CR [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 652	Posted - 2014.08.28 09:47:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks. We went through a range pass in Bravo and i would prefer not to change those this time around. My preferred options are simply increase damage of all AR's, GA, they are sacrificing range for power increase hip fire dispersion of RR, shouldn't be as effective at long and short increase dmg on AScr, simply not as good as the others increase delay on Combat Rifle, and fix the +10/-5 profile I think Haerr had a good analysis on what to do with the normal scrambler i agree with the AR buff the Rail rifle still needs to be a longer range weapon and more dispersal will actually just make it better at hipfireing at closer range makeing it the king weapon as for CR idk where you got the +10/-5 from when i thought projectile was -20% vs shield +20% vs armor, perhaps im not understanding that correctly but its supposed to be the opposite of ScR which is 20% shield -20% armor (+35% vs shield at prof V) as for the BURST CR delay maybe 0.10 sec? [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2355	Posted - 2014.08.28 09:56:00 - [25] - Quote No the cr is supposed to be +10/-10. I personally think it would be best as -20% shields +20% armor. That way there is an armor cracking racial profile to match amarr shield annihilation racial profile. This would put caldari and gallente as the middle road choice that can engage mixed squads better.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3998	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:01:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: No the cr is supposed to be +10/-10. Can you elaborate? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3385	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:35:00 - [27] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Good analysis and I agree with your suggestions. Though I somewhat disagree with the assessment of the RR: its getting around a 60% range increase (optimal) for an 11% damage reduction. Eh. Monkey just has a hard on for fully automatic weapons, but is angry that he can't use semiautomatics as well as those who have trained to use them well. So he has gone on a crusade to nerf semiautomatics into absolesence. What a scrub. Such well formed arguments, my goodness how could I possibly retaliate? I've no problem with semi-auto weapons, after all I use the Scrambler rifle Scrambler Pistol Ion Pistol Flaylock Mass Driver Shotgun Sniper Rifle All of which are semi-auto weapons, the thing is I can spam the ScR at about 10 shots a second myself, but because the ROF is so much strictly regulated on the other weapons I can't suddenly out perform 'those who haven't trained to use them well' because I'm capable of pulling am extra 250 DPS over them. I have a hard time believing that you can fire at 600 RoF. I thought you liked math that didn't lie? That's not maths, just my experience, but you can't prove otherwise. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
emm kay G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 186	Posted - 2014.08.28 13:53:00 - [28] - Quote that's right. bring back AR 514. I DARE YOU. -- You called, sir?
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7378	Posted - 2014.08.28 14:11:00 - [29] - Quote So, if a buff to Plasma rifles is coming up what as well as the attempt to discourage complete armor stacking which will somehow make ferroscale and reactive plates more useful (whatever that means) Could the Gallente Assault get a bonus to Reactive and Ferroscale plates if the armor stacking discouragement is considerable Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 422	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:55:00 - [30] - Quote I dobut that decent player will shoot at 600rof with ScR. CCP, just make ScR overheat per shoot. Then turbo controller wont give such advantage. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.

Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2014.08.28 17:20:00 - [31] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: No the cr is supposed to be +10/-10. I personally think it would be best as -20% shields +20% armor. That way there is an armor cracking racial profile to match amarr shield annihilation racial profile. This would put caldari and gallente as the middle road choice that can engage mixed squads better. You mean explosives? -20 shield +20 to armor.
iliel 0uter.Heaven 142	Posted - 2014.08.29 02:33:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks. We went through a range pass in Bravo and i would prefer not to change those this time around. My preferred options are simply increase damage of all AR's, GA, they are sacrificing range for power increase hip fire dispersion of RR, shouldn't be as effective at long and short increase dmg on AScr, simply not as good as the others increase delay on Combat Rifle, and fix the +10/-5 profile I think Haerr had a good analysis on what to do with the normal scrambler You're really going to add a delay to the combat rifle? Please create one Cal Assault and one Gal Assault. Fit the Cal with ACR and the Gal with AR. Also fit only shield extenders on the Cal and only armor plates on the Gal. Stand 50 meters apart and fire from the hip. Who wins? I think we all know the answer. How people say the AR is UP is crazy. It's not the AR, it's shields that are UP. Buff shields, remove a low from shield suits, and then you've got balance. Anything else is just going back and forth between which of these rifles will be the king.


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