The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked.

But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's...

The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range.

The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR.

And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it.

The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially.

"But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen...

If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down!

The AR is made for killing Militia suits

It was made to be the CQC carbine and be able to dominate all other rifles in CQC not just militia all suits even heavies if you get them right

SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits.

No rifle is supposed to outclass the hmg in CQC. If this was a stealth, complaint thread about hmgs you need to back away far away from the fat suit and use your AR's optimal.

It was made to be the CQC carbine and be able to dominate all other rifles in CQC not just militia all suits even heavies if you get them right

And I am speaking of the SMG's out of experience higher RoF and armor damage... I am more dangerous with my 2 maxed Ishy subs on my scout than my duvolle (both maxed) and the SMG is a easily capable of attaining more armor DPS than an AR will people don't complain about the SMG because everyone f*cking uses it!

And I rep tank my AR on an assault in CQC and I run it on my scout as well but from my experience the CR is better in every aspect accept multiple target engagements

Don't forget ACR that thing wrecks

Well I use it on Assault Caldari suits and I can't really complain, but I don't intentionally get into the face of SMGs. Against other Rifles though I can shred gallente suits with an AR faster than they can shred me with the CR or RR and smgs forget about it if I land my shots they aren't even going to break my shields. Mostly your complaint seems to be meta related and not balanced related. ARs I assure you chew right through me on a Caldari or minmitar suit. SMGs have garbage optimal. You don't hear me complaining that the shotgun fires faster than my assault forge gun. You shouldn't be suprised if your suit is armor profiled and you run into close range against an armor profiled weapon.

Yeah... In CQC the AR should be doing that equivalent+

Yes I am aware I run armor but not even for the damage purpose but for the functionality, nerf the damage if necessary but the CQC ability isn't that great compared to a CR.

... Against shield suits it's acceptional but so is the CR and I love my AR but It needs something that yells CQC it's wide hip fire and wierd spray method make it difficult to in your face CQC

This is where you lose me, the hip fire low kick and dispersion is far superior to the ACR and extremely superior to the ARRs kick and dispersion. Have you tried the other assault rifles? They kick like a mule. Hell my AScR in CQC can straight up miss all its shots with me focused on the target in hip fire. If you think the AR is bad, try a weapon with the same damage, 80% armor profile, 705 ROF, wider dispersion and a heat build up mechanic.

This is where you lose me, the hip fire low kick and dispersion is far superior to the ACR and extremely superior to the ARRs kick and dispersion. Have you tried the other assault rifles? They kick like a mule. Hell my AScR in CQC can straight up miss all its shots with me focused on the target in hip fire. If you think the AR is bad, try a weapon with the same damage, 80% armor profile, 705 ROF, wider dispersion and a heat build up mechanic.

I have accept the ACR starts kicking the same time the AR does but by then it's time to reload, I dunno I love my AR and won't trade it for anything but maybe it's just me but it doesn't pro innately identify as a CQC weapon just short range

The thing is the ACR is definitely the CQC go to against armor profiled suits while the AR is the go to weapon against shield profiled suits. I would advise not role-playing out a specific weapon type if you want to be well rounded in combat. You have to understand that if you role play you will have glaring disadvantages in combat because of the game's inherent mechanics.

yea that heat build up buff was unnececary

The Only time I overheat with it is when I fire a lot, reload then fire a lot again before it cools down, which typically when I'm doing this with a AScR a lot of folks are dying so I don't mind seizing after killing 3-4 people back to back. It's a great weapon for killing shield profiled suits especially shield profiled scouts aka. Caldari and paper scouts aka minmitar.

Galmando with Duvolle and Six Kin ACR is a good idea for coverage

Galmando with Duvolle and Six Kin ACR is a good idea for coverage

Only issue with that is that Galmandos share the problem that all fatties share, it'll be hard to force CQC. I'd say the OP is fine where they are if they run the Duvolle and a ishokune smg, and just switch weapons in CQC based on the suit they are fighting. If it's a hmg heavy believe me when I say everyone has trouble with that in CQC lol. The best way to fight a hmg heavy is to outrange them.

SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits.

SMG DPS vs Armor: 403Gàô
AR DPS vs Armor:384

No proficiencies or damage mods were taken into account.
The SMG is generally better in CQC than the AR vs Armor.

How about vs shields? You know since that's the profile on the AR, it's a more logical comparison to crunch the DPS on ACR and SMG vs armor.

I'm just pointing out that the SMG is indeed better at stripping armor than an AR in cqc, even more so with proficiency. Whether or not that is working as intended is not for me to decide.

AR Shield DPS: 492.8
ACR Shield DPS: how much damage does an BK-42 ACR bullet do?
SMG Shield DPS: 365-+

I'm comparing at ADV tier, since there is no STD ACR

If I had to guess, the AR will be a better anti shield weapon than the others.

AR fires at 800 RoF, not 900.
SMG fires at 1000 RoF, not 1200.