DUST Search - AR not fitting into CQC?

TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:

ARF 1049 wrote:

The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked.

But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's...

The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range.

The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR.

And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it.

The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially.

"But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen...

If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down!

SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits.

SMG DPS vs Armor: 403Gàô
AR DPS vs Armor:384

No proficiencies or damage mods were taken into account.
The SMG is generally better in CQC than the AR vs Armor.

How about vs shields? You know since that's the profile on the AR, it's a more logical comparison to crunch the DPS on ACR and SMG vs armor.


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Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 154	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:11:00 - [1] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked. But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's... The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range. The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR. And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it. The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially. "But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen... If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down! SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits. SMG DPS vs Armor: 403Gàô AR DPS vs Armor:384 No proficiencies or damage mods were taken into account. The SMG is generally better in CQC than the AR vs Armor.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 154	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:18:00 - [2] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked. But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's... The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range. The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR. And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it. The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially. "But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen... If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down! SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits. SMG DPS vs Armor: 403Gàô AR DPS vs Armor:384 No proficiencies or damage mods were taken into account. The SMG is generally better in CQC than the AR vs Armor. How about vs shields? You know since that's the profile on the AR, it's a more logical comparison to crunch the DPS on ACR and SMG vs armor. I'm just pointing out that the SMG is indeed better at stripping armor than an AR in cqc, even more so with proficiency. Whether or not that is working as intended is not for me to decide.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 154	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:30:00 - [3] - Quote AR Shield DPS: 492.8 ACR Shield DPS: 418.0 SMG Shield DPS: 365-+ I'm comparing at ADV tier, since there is no STD ACR If I had to guess, the AR will be a better anti shield weapon than the others.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 154	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:32:00 - [4] - Quote AR fires at 800 RoF, not 900. SMG fires at 1000 RoF, not 1200.