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TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 519	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:51:00 - [1] - Quote ARF 1049 wrote: The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked. But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's... The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range. The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR. And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it. The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially. "But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen... If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down! SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 519	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:55:00 - [2] - Quote ARF 1049 wrote: Zindorak wrote: The AR is made for killing Militia suits It was made to be the CQC carbine and be able to dominate all other rifles in CQC not just militia all suits even heavies if you get them right No rifle is supposed to outclass the hmg in CQC. If this was a stealth, complaint thread about hmgs you need to back away far away from the fat suit and use your AR's optimal.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 519	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:01:00 - [3] - Quote ARF 1049 wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked. But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's... The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range. The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR. And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it. The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially. "But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen... If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down! SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits. And I am speaking of the SMG's out of experience higher RoF and armor damage... I am more dangerous with my 2 maxed Ishy subs on my scout than my duvolle (both maxed) and the SMG is a easily capable of attaining more armor DPS than an AR will people don't complain about the SMG because everyone f*cking uses it! And I rep tank my AR on an assault in CQC and I run it on my scout as well but from my experience the CR is better in every aspect accept multiple target engagements Well I use it on Assault Caldari suits and I can't really complain, but I don't intentionally get into the face of SMGs. Against other Rifles though I can shred gallente suits with an AR faster than they can shred me with the CR or RR and smgs forget about it if I land my shots they aren't even going to break my shields. Mostly your complaint seems to be meta related and not balanced related. ARs I assure you chew right through me on a Caldari or minmitar suit. SMGs have garbage optimal. You don't hear me complaining that the shotgun fires faster than my assault forge gun. You shouldn't be suprised if your suit is armor profiled and you run into close range against an armor profiled weapon. Most the people I see complaining about the ACR run Amarr or Gallente. There's a reason for that.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 519	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:16:00 - [4] - Quote ARF 1049 wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: [quote=ARF 1049] SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits. And I am speaking of the SMG's out of experience higher RoF and armor damage... I am more dangerous with my 2 maxed Ishy subs on my scout than my duvolle (both maxed) and the SMG is a easily capable of attaining more armor DPS than an AR will people don't complain about the SMG because everyone f*cking uses it! And I rep tank my AR on an assault in CQC and I run it on my scout as well but from my experience the CR is better in every aspect accept multiple target engagements Well I use it on Assault Caldari suits and I can't really complain, but I don't intentionally get into the face of SMGs. Against other Rifles though I can shred gallente suits with an AR faster than they can shred me with the CR or RR and smgs forget about it if I land my shots they aren't even going to break my shields. Mostly your complaint seems to be meta related and not balanced related. ARs I assure you chew right through me on a Caldari or minmitar suit. SMGs have garbage optimal. You don't hear me complaining that the shotgun fires faster than my assault forge gun. You shouldn't be suprised if your suit is armor profiled and you run into close range against an armor profiled weapon. Yes I am aware I run armor but not even for the damage purpose but for the functionality, nerf the damage if necessary but the CQC ability isn't that great compared to a CR. But that's my point against my shield tanked suits the AR no contest performs better than the ARR and ACR. It's a matter of armor being the old FOTM that has made them appear to outperform the AR. But as Rattatai said with the newer data crunching, Rattai posted in this thread about it, the AR is actually rising to be on par with the other rifles in kill numbers and shield tanking has become much more viable with recent updates in Charlie buffing Caldari and Minmitar assaults. In other words, the weapon is starting to come into its own again. I'm trying to explain to you that the AR underperforming in comparison to the RR and ACR has more to do with the higher number of Amarr and Gallente suit users than the Minmitar and Caldari suit users.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 519	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:27:00 - [5] - Quote ARF 1049 wrote: ... Against shield suits it's acceptional but so is the CR and I love my AR but It needs something that yells CQC it's wide hip fire and wierd spray method make it difficult to in your face CQC This is where you lose me, the hip fire low kick and dispersion is far superior to the ACR and extremely superior to the ARRs kick and dispersion. Have you tried the other rifles? They kick like a mule.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 519	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:35:00 - [6] - Quote ARF 1049 wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: ... Against shield suits it's acceptional but so is the CR and I love my AR but It needs something that yells CQC it's wide hip fire and wierd spray method make it difficult to in your face CQC This is where you lose me, the hip fire low kick and dispersion is far superior to the ACR and extremely superior to the ARRs kick and dispersion. Have you tried the other assault rifles? They kick like a mule. Hell my AScR in CQC can straight up miss all its shots with me focused on the target in hip fire. If you think the AR is bad, try a weapon with the same damage, 80% armor profile, 705 ROF, wider dispersion and a heat build up mechanic. I have accept the ACR starts kicking the same time the AR does but by then it's time to reload, I dunno I love my AR and won't trade it for anything but maybe it's just me but it doesn't pro innately identify as a CQC weapon just short range The thing is the ACR is definitely the CQC go to against armor profiled suits while the AR is the go to weapon against shield profiled suits. I would advise not role-playing out a specific weapon type if you want to be well rounded in combat. You have to understand that if you role play you will have glaring disadvantages in combat because of the game's inherent mechanics.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 520	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:39:00 - [7] - Quote Zindorak wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: ... Against shield suits it's acceptional but so is the CR and I love my AR but It needs something that yells CQC it's wide hip fire and wierd spray method make it difficult to in your face CQC This is where you lose me, the hip fire low kick and dispersion is far superior to the ACR and extremely superior to the ARRs kick and dispersion. Have you tried the other assault rifles? They kick like a mule. Hell my AScR in CQC can straight up miss all its shots with me focused on the target in hip fire. If you think the AR is bad, try a weapon with the same damage, 80% armor profile, 705 ROF, wider dispersion and a heat build up mechanic. yea that heat build up buff was unnececary The only time I overheat with it is when I fire a lot, reload then fire a lot again before it cools down, which typically when I'm doing this with a AScR a lot of folks are dying so I don't mind seizing after killing 3-4 people back to back. It's a great weapon for killing shield profiled suits especially shield profiled scouts aka. Caldari and paper scouts aka minmitar. One thing also to keep in mind about the ACR, it has 1200 RPM true but it also has a base damage of 22, 10 less than the AR, so it has nearly fifty percent less damage per shot than the AR while having 25% more RPM.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 520	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:49:00 - [8] - Quote Zindorak wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: ... Against shield suits it's acceptional but so is the CR and I love my AR but It needs something that yells CQC it's wide hip fire and wierd spray method make it difficult to in your face CQC This is where you lose me, the hip fire low kick and dispersion is far superior to the ACR and extremely superior to the ARRs kick and dispersion. Have you tried the other assault rifles? They kick like a mule. Hell my AScR in CQC can straight up miss all its shots with me focused on the target in hip fire. If you think the AR is bad, try a weapon with the same damage, 80% armor profile, 705 ROF, wider dispersion and a heat build up mechanic. I have accept the ACR starts kicking the same time the AR does but by then it's time to reload, I dunno I love my AR and won't trade it for anything but maybe it's just me but it doesn't pro innately identify as a CQC weapon just short range The thing is the ACR is definitely the CQC go to against armor profiled suits while the AR is the go to weapon against shield profiled suits. I would advise not role-playing out a specific weapon type if you want to be well rounded in combat. You have to understand that if you role play you will have glaring disadvantages in combat because of the game's inherent mechanics. Galmando with Duvolle and Six Kin ACR is a good idea for coverage Only issue with that is that Galmandos share the problem that all fatties share, it'll be hard to force CQC. I'd say the OP is fine where they are if they run the Duvolle and a ishokune smg, and just switch weapons in CQC based on the suit they are fighting. If it's a hmg heavy believe me when I say everyone has trouble with that in CQC lol.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 521	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:02:00 - [9] - Quote Zindorak wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Zindorak wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: This is where you lose me, the hip fire low kick and dispersion is far superior to the ACR and extremely superior to the ARRs kick and dispersion. Have you tried the other assault rifles? They kick like a mule. Hell my AScR in CQC can straight up miss all its shots with me focused on the target in hip fire. If you think the AR is bad, try a weapon with the same damage, 80% armor profile, 705 ROF, wider dispersion and a heat build up mechanic. I have accept the ACR starts kicking the same time the AR does but by then it's time to reload, I dunno I love my AR and won't trade it for anything but maybe it's just me but it doesn't pro innately identify as a CQC weapon just short range The thing is the ACR is definitely the CQC go to against armor profiled suits while the AR is the go to weapon against shield profiled suits. I would advise not role-playing out a specific weapon type if you want to be well rounded in combat. You have to understand that if you role play you will have glaring disadvantages in combat because of the game's inherent mechanics. Galmando with Duvolle and Six Kin ACR is a good idea for coverage Only issue with that is that Galmandos share the problem that all fatties share, it'll be hard to force CQC. I'd say the OP is fine where they are if they run the Duvolle and a ishokune smg, and just switch weapons in CQC based on the suit they are fighting. If it's a hmg heavy believe me when I say everyone has trouble with that in CQC lol. The best way to fight a hmg heavy is to outrange them. yea but you could use a LAV and get hate mail[/quote] With the rise of swarms from what I've seen it's become far more risky to ride around in LAVs. Blueberries are finally starting to AV more.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 521	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:13:00 - [10] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked. But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's... The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range. The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR. And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it. The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially. "But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen... If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down! SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits. SMG DPS vs Armor: 403Gàô AR DPS vs Armor:384 No proficiencies or damage mods were taken into account. The SMG is generally better in CQC than the AR vs Armor. How about vs shields? You know since that's the profile on the AR, it's a more logical comparison to crunch the DPS on ACR and SMG vs armor. A damage buff to ARs to make them do more armor damage than armor profiled weapons is going to be a stealth nerf to shield tanking again. ScR can already alpha charge blast my caldari shields off and shotguns wreck shield suits. Yeah why don't we just make every weapon insta gib shield suits? Is that what it takes to make armor tanks happy? Game getting too diverse?

TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 521	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:22:00 - [11] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: ARF 1049 wrote: The AR is shield weaponry yes?... Which makes it terrible at CQC because anything heavily armored will walk over you... Before people say I don't know how to use it... I use plasma strictly I use the IoP religiously and tend to be able to kill almost anything... Non brick tanked. But the problem with shield weaponry means it does less damage overall then does even less to armor, I am not yelling nerf but something needs to happen when the "CQC" plasma carbine is being decimated by medium range over glorified SMG's... The ScR fell into place fine as did the rail rifle both excelling at what they do, high alpha and range. The AR is supposed to have the shortest range (which it does) and the highest DPS of all rifles but it doesn't... Because it's shield piercing... Although the AR has nearly 400 more damage per magazine than the CR, and excels in multiple target situations at this point the SMG is still outclassing it, being able to drop heavies faster than the AR. And at this point HIV+ CR junkies are complaining because they believe there weapon is balanced... And I believe in people's hopes and dreams too... But saying it doesn't have an edge over an AR in CQC is none sense and they know it. The only way to help the AR is once again buff the RoF to a point of being feared in CQC it's currently 800rpm but from my experience to be able to compete with a CR it has to go up to 880rpm-900rpm which would increase kick at range shortening it's functionally optimal range even further but increasing it's CQC abilities and self defense against ambushes substantially. "But wait Arf then my (input shield suit) wouldn't be able to fight in CQC!" Well quit frankly your not supposed to! Shield is supposed to stay at range and stick to quick fast strikes besides if you get 40-60m away we're screwed... But in CQC to short range plasma is supposed to dominate and projectile is medium to short range that's why it has good hip fire, to get targets at short range with controlled spray return to cover regen... If anyone has any input on a way to put the AR in it's place (not edit the CR... To many minmatard tech fans) please write dat SHlT down! SMGs do something like 22ish damage a shot the AR does 32ish. Even with 90% armor efficiency that's still 28ish damage a shot. If you are getting outclassed by smgs the enemy has better aim then you. Also, keep in mind that if it's a vet many vets have maxed out their smg skill tree. Treat the AR as if it were a CR and focus on using high mobility suits. If you are Gallente you have a lot of low slots mang, fit a kincat or fit Ferros/Reactives to not punish your speed so hard. Problem with a lot of Gallente suits is they tend to stack plates then wonder why their CQC plasma weapons aren't very good. If you are Caldari or Minmitar you should already be used to fitting speed into the equation and if you are running Amarr you probably shouldn't be running CQC weapons on the slowest suits. SMG DPS vs Armor: 403Gàô AR DPS vs Armor:384 No proficiencies or damage mods were taken into account. The SMG is generally better in CQC than the AR vs Armor. How about vs shields? You know since that's the profile on the AR, it's a more logical comparison to crunch the DPS on ACR and SMG vs armor. I'm just pointing out that the SMG is indeed better at stripping armor than an AR in cqc, even more so with proficiency. Whether or not that is working as intended is not for me to decide. Well, if you really are here to actually list statistics and not skew an argument, you want to do AR and ACR/SMG DPS vs. shields? Edit: AR DPS vs Shields: 528 ACR vs Shields: 396 SMG vs Shields: 396 I can't get online right now but If I remember correctly this is all base standard stats with the AR at 900 RPM and 32 damage and the ACR/SMG both at 1200 RPM and 22 damage. If anything it looks like the AR is actually more balanced against both armors with only a 19 damage difference between itself and the ACR/SMG on armor but over 132 more damage on shields.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 521	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:32:00 - [12] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: AR Shield DPS: 492.8 ACR Shield DPS: how much damage does an BK-42 ACR bullet do? SMG Shield DPS: 365-+ I'm comparing at ADV tier, since there is no STD ACR If I had to guess, the AR will be a better anti shield weapon than the others. I can't see the Gek's stats right now but I didn't even think of that, how did you only get 492.8 shield DPS is'nt the RPM 900? Are you using the old RPM of 750? Also I do remember distinctly that the BK-42 is 1200 RPM and 22 damage.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 521	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:34:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: AR fires at 800 RoF, not 900. SMG fires at 1000 RoF, not 1200. Still even with the modifications the AR still performs better against dual tanks. I think it's working as intended.

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