DUST Search - [Commandos] AV Upgrades for Caldari and Amarr Commandos

taxi bastard wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Well for one I dont think its necessarily the intended role, as True said, they're the suppression class. Even so, the use of a Commando as a light AV platform is a big reason for a lot of Commandos to run that role. I know in particular every Minmatar Commando I've talked to has said that the bonus to Swarms was a big part of why they picked the Minmatar Commando in particular. And as we've seen, the Caldari and Amarr are underused in comparison to the Minmatar and Gallente, and I think its clear that at least part of that is due to the AV options available to them.

I don't think anyone would argue with you that it seems nonsensical that the Caldari Swarms don't get a bonus from the Caldari Commando so I think that needs to happen regardless. Which leaves us with the question of what to do with the Amarr, as not to give the other 3 bonuses to AV but leave the Amarr untouched.

As for repurposing assets, that's certainly an option. As we saw with Nova Knives, the devs can modify the damage reduction against vehicles for infantry weapons.

the swarm and CR were the only reason i went for mini commando before mini assault.

the drawback was obvious for choosing mini 112.5 less base EHP ( affter passives) than caldari and gallenti and 150 less base EHP than the ammar all for a insignificant amount of extra speed.

if everyone else gets AV options mini needs 100 more base EHP ( after passives) or alternatively caldari and ammar should have 50% of the AV bonus of gallenti and mini?


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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2961	Posted - 2014.08.25 22:57:00 - [1] - Quote NOTE: While there is an ongoing discussion about the slots/HP/base attributes of the Commando and considering if they need to be changed, this topic is specifically focused on Bonuses and AV capability of the Commando Suit. Please Stay on Topic. So what initially drew me to the Commando was the prospect of being able to run both Light AV as well as an Anti-Personnel weapon at the same time. This paired with the damage bonus makes the Commando a very flexible unit that can deal high damage to both infantry and vehicles alike. However one issue in this is how this is set up is that the bonuses are tied to damage type, not racial type, and the fact that only 2 Light AV weapons exist despite having 4 races and 5 damage types. This means that the Minmatar Commando ended up with a bonus that applies to the Caldari Swarm Launcher, and the Caldari and Amarr are left with bonuses that don't apply to any Light AV weapon. The Devs have already stated that this has caused a rather noticeable imbalance in the use of Commandos, making some far preferred over others (The Minmatar Commando being the most popular). This is likely due to the fact that not only does the Minmatar enjoy a double damage type bonus (Projectile and Explosive) but it also gets a bonus to the Swarm Launcher, giving it a wide range of weapons it can use, as well as a Light AV weapon. That being said, I'd like to see the Amarr and Caldari gain the benefit from Light AV weapons in order to make them more desirable than they currently are, and also the fact that the Caldari Commando not getting a bonus to Swarms is sinful. Just saying ;) Proposed Bonuses: Amarr Commando: +2% to Laser Weapon Damage/Lvl +2% to Plasma Cannon Damage/Lvl Caldari Commando: +2% to Hybrid-Rail Weapon Damage/Lvl +2% to Swarm Launcher Damage/Lvl Gallente Commando: +2% to Hybrid-Blaster Weapon Damage/Lvl (Already includes Plasma Cannon) Minmatar Commando: +2% to Projectile Weapon Damage/Lvl +2% to Explosive Weapon Damage/Lvl (Already includes Swarm Launcher) This way the Minmatar and Gallente maintain their current bonuses to Light AV weapons, while expanding that benefit to the Amarr and Caldari. What do you guys think?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2962	Posted - 2014.08.25 23:19:00 - [2] - Quote Atiim wrote: I don't think Amarr Commandos are fast enough to make a PLC bonus worthwhile. Though it is better than nothing, I suppose. Well yeah, it's not ideal, having a light AV laser weapon would be ideal. But as that probably won't happen for Dust, I figured this is probably the best solution.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2962	Posted - 2014.08.25 23:28:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I may not play this game any more but even I see this is a terrible suggestion. Commando's are not primary AV units they are and were called by CCP and the more dedicated Commando base the "Ultimate Suppression Fighters" As an Amarr Commando I'll tell you straight up to bugger off with your poor attempt at making the Commando a 1 rifle, 1 AV weapon suit. rolls eyes Then don't use the AV weapon if you don't want to. I'm just saying one of the big appeals for the Commando is the fact that you can run AV and AP at the same time if you want to, and it would be nice is all commandos had a bonus that benefited that playstyle. I'm just trying to give that option to the Amarr and Caldari, because the Gallente and Minmatar already have the option. Or would you prefer we remove the bonus that Gallente and Minmatar get to the PLC/Swarms?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2962	Posted - 2014.08.25 23:36:00 - [4] - Quote So really it's more that you're just bitter than anything else, alright just wanted to make sure.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2962	Posted - 2014.08.25 23:46:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: So really it's more that you're just bitter than anything else, alright just wanted to make sure. Partially but more to the point why would an Amarr suit get a bonus to a plasma weapon? No reason, it should not happen. The further CCP takes this game away from EVE to appease a community that does not know what it wants and thinks its a good idea to deny the only successful game CCP has ever produced with only serve to push Dust/Legion away from what it should have been. I've been dealing with the lack of Amarrian content for 18 months now, I used to care and say that CCP would surly do their best, quiet frankly they failed in every regard. As a proponent of the Amarr and their correct depiction in Dust I have to say that its a quick fix and best and frankly one that neither solves the problem of lacking Amarrian content nor makes sense from a lore perspective. I do not want my suit, another role I used to love, bastardised because the community "feels" it need an illogical buff. Because traditionally Amarr weapons deal EM and Thermal damage. But fine, if you're that butthurt about it we wont give the Amarr Commando anything, they can stick with ScR and LsR as the only options that let them have the bonus. Hopefully the Caldari can be enjoying their AV weapon soon and the Amarr can keep shooting at vehicles with their Laser Rifle and wondering why it's not working. I have to ask though, you don't play the game yet you still come on the forums and complain? It's kinda like a drug addict who got cut off from his fix but he's still clawing at the porch of his old dealer and complaining when he wont answer the door.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2962	Posted - 2014.08.25 23:55:00 - [6] - Quote I suppose you would lose your **** if I suggest secondary damage type bonuses instead? Like +2% to Laser and +1% to Thermal?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2962	Posted - 2014.08.26 00:18:00 - [7] - Quote Well for one I dont think its necessarily the intended role, as True said, they're the suppression class. Even so, the use of a Commando as a light AV platform is a big reason for a lot of Commandos to run that role. I know in particular every Minmatar Commando I've talked to has said that the bonus to Swarms was a big part of why they picked the Minmatar Commando in particular. And as we've seen, the Caldari and Amarr are underused in comparison to the Minmatar and Gallente, and I think its clear that at least part of that is due to the AV options available to them. I don't think anyone would argue with you that it seems nonsensical that the Caldari Swarms don't get a bonus from the Caldari Commando so I think that needs to happen regardless. Which leaves us with the question of what to do with the Amarr, as not to give the other 3 bonuses to AV but leave the Amarr untouched. As for repurposing assets, that's certainly an option. As we saw with Nova Knives, the devs can modify the damage reduction against vehicles for infantry weapons.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2962	Posted - 2014.08.26 01:16:00 - [8] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Well for one I dont think its necessarily the intended role, as True said, they're the suppression class. Even so, the use of a Commando as a light AV platform is a big reason for a lot of Commandos to run that role. I know in particular every Minmatar Commando I've talked to has said that the bonus to Swarms was a big part of why they picked the Minmatar Commando in particular. And as we've seen, the Caldari and Amarr are underused in comparison to the Minmatar and Gallente, and I think its clear that at least part of that is due to the AV options available to them. I don't think anyone would argue with you that it seems nonsensical that the Caldari Swarms don't get a bonus from the Caldari Commando so I think that needs to happen regardless. Which leaves us with the question of what to do with the Amarr, as not to give the other 3 bonuses to AV but leave the Amarr untouched. As for repurposing assets, that's certainly an option. As we saw with Nova Knives, the devs can modify the damage reduction against vehicles for infantry weapons. the swarm and CR were the only reason i went for mini commando before mini assault. the drawback was obvious for choosing mini 112.5 less base EHP ( affter passives) than caldari and gallenti and 150 less base EHP than the ammar all for a insignificant amount of extra speed. if everyone else gets AV options mini needs 100 more base EHP ( after passives) or alternatively caldari and ammar should have 50% of the AV bonus of gallenti and mini? Gallente get AV bonuses, and you don't see the Minmatar getting special treatment in other roles simply because they have lower base HP.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2963	Posted - 2014.08.26 01:45:00 - [9] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: True is right. I've played Eve since 2009, and Amarr getting a PLC damage bonus is all kinds of wrong. If anything, Amarr/Caldari should get a bonus to swarms, since swarms are Caldari and Amarr are their allies, and Minmatar/Gallente get a bonus to PLC for the same reasons. My personal preference would be to have Caldari get a explosive damage bonus as well. But there really is no good solution with the lack of racial parity we have. I guess my question is, if the Caldari get the Swarms, then do the Amarr get nothing?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2963	Posted - 2014.08.26 03:05:00 - [10] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: True Adamance wrote: The further CCP takes this game away from EVE to appease a community that does not know what it wants and thinks its a good idea to deny the only successful game CCP has ever produced with only serve to push Dust/Legion away from what it should have been. The racial thematics of dropsuits and weapons is one of my favorite things about DUST. But half the time when I see a suggestion, it can be really upsetting to see someone try and dismantle the essence of the races of New Eden. However, all the races in New Eden have at least a few missile focused ships. Why not have all 4 races get a bonus to Swarm Launchers. The PLC is unique in its ability to be used as an AP weapon and as a Blaster it fits no one elses themes other than the Gallente. Giving a bonus for swarms to all of them would be a possibility as well. And Appia, everything I say seems to upset you lately

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2963	Posted - 2014.08.26 03:21:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: That is true and Khanid, being the missile ships of the Amarr Empire have their own completely seperate racial profiles for bonuses. That would probably work well, especially since swarms are by far more commonly used that Plasma Cannons anyways. I suppose my initial reasoning was "Well you need an even amount of PLC and Swarms as not to give an unfair advantage to shield vehicles" but in hindsight that's probably not that much of a factor. I updated the original post with the swarm idea as well. Good discussion guys
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2963	Posted - 2014.08.26 03:30:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: That is true and Khanid, being the missile ships of the Amarr Empire have their own completely seperate racial profiles for bonuses. That would probably work well, especially since swarms are by far more commonly used that Plasma Cannons anyways. I suppose my initial reasoning was "Well you need an even amount of PLC and Swarms as not to give an unfair advantage to shield vehicles" but in hindsight that's probably not that much of a factor. I updated the original post with the swarm idea as well. Good discussion guys Only issue is that the Khanid do not use lasers since their schism with the Empire, and how closely they work with Caldari Constructions, chose to make missile based weapons systems instead of laser based...... Sure they can....but they don't get the same cap as standard Amarr ships nor the fitting capacity for them. Right but at the least you've maintained racial parity within the groups primarily originating from the Amarr, so it still works even if its not perfect. Obviously Caldari use missiles as do Minmatar. I forget, are there any Gallente ships that use missiles or is that reserved for Pirate faction ships like the Gurista? (Funny enough while I tend to main Gallente in Dust, I use very few of their ships in EVE)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2963	Posted - 2014.08.26 03:43:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I don't think so. They tend to have drone boats to compensate for that. Gurista's use missiles true but they are using caldari hulls modified with superior Gallente Drone tech. Mmmm I do love my Rattlesnake. Though my Drone skills are lacking, I should get those up.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2963	Posted - 2014.08.26 04:47:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: I don't think so. They tend to have drone boats to compensate for that. Gurista's use missiles true but they are using caldari hulls modified with superior Gallente Drone tech. Mmmm I do love my Rattlesnake. Though my Drone skills are lacking, I should get those up. On a Rattlesnake? Yeah you really should 275% Sentry Drone Damage as its role bonus........ you really should be maximising your use of those things. I on the other hand love the Sacrilege. Yeah I know. I'm more of a missile guy anyways but I had Caldari Battleship V so I figured why not move into the Pirate factions a bit? It's a work in progress. On that note we should have pirate dropsuits too