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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2147	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:29:00 - [1] - Quote Compared to the new burst. Holy ****, that thing tears a new a-hole for 7 blueberries in one tap of R1. I played a PC a few days ago where literally the only thing that killed me was the Six Kin...It makes the regular HMG feel like a militia RR. Not calling for a nerf, Im just looking for the logic that balances this weapon, considering it does nearly twice the damage of a shotgun shot per burst and has about 10x the range.. How do people feel about it? "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 1263	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:33:00 - [2] - Quote That thing is going to get nerfed back to where it was. Don't buy too many of them. I don't always blap Infantry with a Forge Gun, but when I do, that ** is hilarious.
Tectonic Fusion 2050	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:36:00 - [3] - Quote The burst is perfect. It's DPS is just high enough for people to rage. Just lower it by 1000 and it'll be fine. Also the normal HMG is just a different playstyle.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2147	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:37:00 - [4] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Just lower it by 1000 and it'll be fine. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
taxi bastard uptown456 Dark Taboo 215	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:38:00 - [5] - Quote IMO either increase heat build up or lower DPS. it too nasty mun!
TechMechMeds Level 5 Forum Warrior 5319	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:41:00 - [6] - Quote That thing is a std weapon. Adv>std https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=172432&find=unread
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1330	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:45:00 - [7] - Quote I like the burst against other heavies, but not so much against other infantry. The burst overheats and goes through ammo too quickly.
ImIvan 7	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:45:00 - [8] - Quote Burst is OP...I was thinking that HMGs should have a spool up time, but the burst would not but it would heat up quicker. But nah then no1 would use HMG. Why must you use prototypes?
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 156	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:47:00 - [9] - Quote The busrt is too op. Equip it with a speed heavy then you be like a scout with an hmg. Why have'nt ccp nerfed it yet? The Blazing Intellect Machine
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 860	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:00:00 - [10] - Quote I truly wonder what goes through CCPs minds when they make changes. The regular hmg was already OP as hell compared to every other weapon. Its only true drawback was it could be outranged by light weapons, but since the vast majority of maps and objectives force players into the hmgs sphere of CQC dominance, being outranged was a moot point. So in their infinite wisdom CCP takes the weaker version of the most OP weapon in the game, buffs the shyte out of it and it is now the new king badass OP weapon, making the former hmg look like a joke, even though the former hmg was an insta killing death ray. Now the six kin is just a turbo Insta killing death ray, with one small change...you actually kinda have to aim now instead of the spray and pray of the boundless. Bravo CCP, bravo. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1807	Posted - 2014.08.22 20:38:00 - [11] - Quote Burst is perfect for what it is meant for... 1v1s STD is perfect for what it is meant for... Protracted slugfests Assault is perfect for... err... umm... yeah... Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 712	Posted - 2014.08.22 20:53:00 - [12] - Quote The MLR-A is the big wang on the block right now, that's for damn sure. I'm of two minds... I certainly recognize how powerful it is, but practically speaking: 1) Everybody melts in front of an HMG anyway, whether it's the MLR-A or MH-82, so not sure what mercs are complaining about in that respect. 2) The burst is a skill weapon -- you basically have about 4-5 bursts before you have to reload, I think? Makes timing essential to it's use -- if you are caught in a reload at the wrong time or miss your bursts, you're screwed. 3) You're still a fata$$ heavy and slow as hell. So all in all, I don't really think the burst is OP, compared to how the HMG normally performs. It's comparable to how the shotgun operates now -- SGs put mercs down in 1-3 shots, but no one is asking for a shotgun nerf. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 182	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:03:00 - [13] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: That thing is going to get nerfed back to where it was. if CCP are fine with that, I'm absolutely fine with that, I liked it better before. =)
Vapor Forseti Ancient Textiles. 1294	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:04:00 - [14] - Quote "OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 447	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:12:00 - [15] - Quote Oh brother. Lets nerf the SCR first before you guys turn the HMG into a joke completely. Saying what's on people's minds
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1275	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:13:00 - [16] - Quote I still do fine against the burst with my MH-82, well 1v1 anyways, it's when there's two of them I get worried. The burst eats through ammo too quickly and after it overheats the one using it is fcked; hell you could shotgun him to death from 20 meters away before the thing cools down (seems like it anyways). Still, the burst is damn good when the blueberries don't get in your line of fire (I swear they did it intentionally every time I pulled the trigger last time I used it). J4yne C0bb wrote: 2) The burst is a skill weapon -- you basically have about 4-5 bursts before you have to reload, I think? Makes timing essential to it's use -- if you are caught in a reload at the wrong time or miss your bursts, you're screwed.. Sounds more like luck than skill to me but whatever. At the RJC we don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Kill Scotty
Vicious Minotaur 1104	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:26:00 - [17] - Quote Still don't know why CCP [inappropriately] touched the burst HMG. The thing was damn near perfect the way it was before they put their grubby hands all over it. I hope they nerf it back to where it was. Until they do (which they probably won't do), I will not lay my hands upon the burst. I am a minotaur.
Cody Sietz Evzones 3892	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:28:00 - [18] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: The burst is perfect. It's DPS is just high enough for people to rage. Just lower it by 1000 and it'll be fine. Also the normal HMG is just a different playstyle. Yeah, no. I've been using it to rip through Amarr heavies who had MH-82s and Boundless HMGs using only a STD or ADV Gallente sentinel. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Michael Arck 5257	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:29:00 - [19] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: I truly wonder what goes through CCPs minds when they make changes. The regular hmg was already OP as hell compared to every other weapon. Its only true drawback was it could be outranged by light weapons, but since the vast majority of maps and objectives force players into the hmgs sphere of CQC dominance, being outranged was a moot point. So in their infinite wisdom CCP takes the weaker version of the most OP weapon in the game, buffs the shyte out of it and it is now the new king badass OP weapon, making the former hmg look like a joke, even though the former hmg was an insta killing death ray. Now the six kin is just a turbo Insta killing death ray, with one small change...you actually kinda have to aim now instead of the spray and pray of the boundless. Bravo CCP, bravo. Wtf are you talking about einstein? Another short term memory, short sighted member of a community. A fine example of how the community has damaged this game continually into the ground. Basically GD dont know what the ** they are talking about 90 percent of the time. The burst variant has always been stronger than regular versions, MH82 and Boundless. Nobody used it because its burst, not a continuous stream of fire. You couldnt just hold R1 for pray and spray glory, something that plenty people prefer. People * and CCP nerfs the regular HMG. Now another fine example of how FOTM is made is shown here. Since community pushed for regular HMG nerf, those who use it go for the strongest and better choice post nerf, the burst HMG, to gain somewhat the same results they were accustomed before the nerf. Which quite possibly push for another nerf when the community decides they cant handle that either, thus making the class useless...again. But you wanna blame CCP? Dont be so superficial and stupid. Look to your fellow community members Archistrategos Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain**
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 863	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:49:00 - [20] - Quote The burst was used very infrequently compared to the boundless. It actually required skill to shoot it because the delay between bursts was so much longer. Boundless hmgs outnumbered six kins in the kill feed by a large margin. It is starting to reverse now to where I'm seeing many more six kins than boundless. The six kin now has a much shorter burst delay and more dps. That was my point. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.

J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 714	Posted - 2014.08.22 22:12:00 - [21] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: I still do fine against the burst with my MH-82, well 1v1 anyways, it's when there's two of them I get worried. The burst eats through ammo too quickly and after it overheats the one using it is fcked; hell you could shotgun him to death from 20 meters away before the thing cools down (seems like it anyways). Still, the burst is damn good when the blueberries don't get in your line of fire (I swear they did it intentionally every time I pulled the trigger last time I used it). J4yne C0bb wrote: 2) The burst is a skill weapon -- you basically have about 4-5 bursts before you have to reload, I think? Makes timing essential to it's use -- if you are caught in a reload at the wrong time or miss your bursts, you're screwed.. Sounds more like luck than skill to me but whatever. Luck? Hardly. No more luck than a shotgun scout is 'lucky'. The burst HMG basically operates like a short range SG, requiring the same type of aiming skill. Put some Kin Cats on my suit and I'm basically a fat, slow, highly visible scout. I'm like Kung Fu Panda with a burst weapon! Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman
Tectonic Fusion 2050	Posted - 2014.08.22 22:27:00 - [22] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: Thumb Green wrote: I still do fine against the burst with my MH-82, well 1v1 anyways, it's when there's two of them I get worried. The burst eats through ammo too quickly and after it overheats the one using it is fcked; hell you could shotgun him to death from 20 meters away before the thing cools down (seems like it anyways). Still, the burst is damn good when the blueberries don't get in your line of fire (I swear they did it intentionally every time I pulled the trigger last time I used it). J4yne C0bb wrote: 2) The burst is a skill weapon -- you basically have about 4-5 bursts before you have to reload, I think? Makes timing essential to it's use -- if you are caught in a reload at the wrong time or miss your bursts, you're screwed.. Sounds more like luck than skill to me but whatever. Luck? Hardly. No more luck than a shotgun scout is 'lucky'. The burst HMG basically operates like a short range SG, requiring the same type of aiming skill. Put some Kin Cats on my suit and I'm basically a fat, slow, highly visible scout. I'm like Kung Fu Panda with a burst weapon! That's what my suit is right now. ADV min heavy with an adv burst, m209 asmg, flux, enhanced energizer, complex shield, enhanced kin cat and enhanced stamina enhancer thing. (GIF)
OZAROW Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1498	Posted - 2014.08.22 23:05:00 - [23] - Quote Shutdatpiehole SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
GENERAL FCF Sentinels of New Eden 32	Posted - 2014.08.22 23:06:00 - [24] - Quote I'll accept a nerf to the burst HMG if the RR and CR get nerfed! the burst HMG needs to be at 5,000rpm.(i love it at 6000 tho) and the regular hmg needs to be at 2,800 or 2,900rpm! (2,400 is not good enough) CCP likes the regular HMG where it is right now because it doesnt suck anymore, that doesnt mean its a good/great weapon. (yet) Its a tricky weapon to balance i know, therefore im not totally tripping that its NOT finished yet. I also believe it needs to be more efficient against tanks if Nova Knives are going to light-saber down tanks! The HMG is basically a vehicle weapon being wielded by infantry so it needs to be strong(more efficient) towards vehicles.
MythTanker Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 214	Posted - 2014.08.22 23:27:00 - [25] - Quote Im not defending it but, i think its only OP in the skillful heavys hand... I just cant see someone using it without appropriate SP an skill when using the suit... so i wouldn't consider it a FOTM weapon, but i can see why people hate it... The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2150	Posted - 2014.08.22 23:32:00 - [26] - Quote GENERAL FCF wrote: I'll accept a nerf to the burst HMG if the RR and CR get nerfed! the burst HMG needs to be at 5,000rpm.(i love it at 6000 tho) and the regular hmg needs to be at 2,800 or 2,900rpm! (2,400 is not good enough) CCP likes the regular HMG where it is right now because it doesnt suck anymore, that doesnt mean its a good/great weapon. (yet) Its a tricky weapon to balance i know, therefore im not totally tripping that its NOT finished yet. I also believe it needs to be more efficient against tanks if Nova Knives are going to light-saber down tanks! The HMG is basically a vehicle weapon being wielded by infantry so it needs to be strong(more efficient) towards vehicles. Umm...the HMG does not need another buff "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1809	Posted - 2014.08.23 00:01:00 - [27] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: GENERAL FCF wrote: I'll accept a nerf to the burst HMG if the RR and CR get nerfed! the burst HMG needs to be at 5,000rpm.(i love it at 6000 tho) and the regular hmg needs to be at 2,800 or 2,900rpm! (2,400 is not good enough) CCP likes the regular HMG where it is right now because it doesnt suck anymore, that doesnt mean its a good/great weapon. (yet) Its a tricky weapon to balance i know, therefore im not totally tripping that its NOT finished yet. I also believe it needs to be more efficient against tanks if Nova Knives are going to light-saber down tanks! The HMG is basically a vehicle weapon being wielded by infantry so it needs to be strong(more efficient) towards vehicles. Umm...the HMG does not need another buff O M G Never thought I'd actually agree with you :3 Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 244	Posted - 2014.08.23 00:08:00 - [28] - Quote I wish my breach shotgun had five shots... My take on 514: Five Empires, One Dead, Four Alive
castba Merc-0107 584	Posted - 2014.08.23 00:14:00 - [29] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Compared to the new burst. Holy ****, that thing tears a new a-hole for 7 blueberries in one tap of R1. I played a PC a few days ago where literally the only thing that killed me was the Six Kin...It makes the regular HMG feel like a militia RR. Not calling for a nerf, Im just looking for the logic that balances this weapon, considering it does nearly twice the damage of a shotgun shot per burst and has about 10x the range.. How do people feel about it? Good Lord man! Do you do anything other than cry about heavies? FYI, you are doing it wrong, as are all the other crybabies that cry nerf. Please see my Sig and think before posting. "When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
vincent FF7 514 sephiroth clones 11	Posted - 2014.08.23 00:18:00 - [30] - Quote No they know nothing else except how to play the violin

J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 715	Posted - 2014.08.23 00:24:00 - [31] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: I wish my breach shotgun had five shots... Oh, you. Scouts have speed, dampening and cloaking to make up for it; heavies can't even see you mofos on their tacnet when they're getting skullf****ed by shottys. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1809	Posted - 2014.08.23 01:03:00 - [32] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: Venerable Phage wrote: I wish my breach shotgun had five shots... Oh, you. Scouts have speed, dampening and cloaking to make up for it; heavies can't even see you mofos on their tacnet when they're getting skullf****ed by shottys. hence why I'm paranoid to the point of making tweak from southpark look normal xD Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1020	Posted - 2014.08.23 01:06:00 - [33] - Quote Can confirm. Almost killed a heavy with a Gatsun's last night but because he had a burst, and another one of his heavy friends showed up I didn't even get the kill on him. *Eternal Beings* - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2987	Posted - 2014.08.23 01:24:00 - [34] - Quote It should be consider the minmatar Rifle is Burst shouldn't the heavy weapons normal variant be burst as well and since the normal variant of each weapon has the highest DPS of it's counter parts the Burst should as well. I'm not saying it's balanced but I understand why it is a better weapon. Tanker/Logi/Assault
Tectonic Fusion 2051	Posted - 2014.08.23 03:10:00 - [35] - Quote GENERAL FCF wrote: I'll accept a nerf to the burst HMG if the RR and CR get nerfed! the burst HMG needs to be at 5,000rpm.(i love it at 6000 tho) and the regular hmg needs to be at 2,800 or 2,900rpm! (2,400 is not good enough) CCP likes the regular HMG where it is right now because it doesnt suck anymore, that doesnt mean its a good/great weapon. (yet) Its a tricky weapon to balance i know, therefore im not totally tripping that its NOT finished yet. I also believe it needs to be more efficient against tanks if Nova Knives are going to light-saber down tanks! The HMG is basically a vehicle weapon being wielded by infantry so it needs to be strong(more efficient) towards vehicles. I only agree for the burst part. Venerable Phage wrote: I wish my breach shotgun had five shots... It should have 3 (like the chromosome version) or 4 shots in a clip. (GIF)
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1279	Posted - 2014.08.23 03:27:00 - [36] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Venerable Phage wrote: I wish my breach shotgun had five shots... It should have 3 (like the chromosome version) or 4 shots in a clip. I'm pretty sure the Chrome breach had 2 shots as well; at least that's why I remember choosing not to use it back then. At the RJC we don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Kill Scotty
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2152	Posted - 2014.08.23 03:30:00 - [37] - Quote castba wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Compared to the new burst. Holy ****, that thing tears a new a-hole for 7 blueberries in one tap of R1. I played a PC a few days ago where literally the only thing that killed me was the Six Kin...It makes the regular HMG feel like a militia RR. Not calling for a nerf, Im just looking for the logic that balances this weapon, considering it does nearly twice the damage of a shotgun shot per burst and has about 10x the range.. How do people feel about it? Good Lord man! Do you do anything other than cry about heavies? FYI, you are doing it wrong, as are all the other crybabies that cry nerf. Please see my Sig and think before posting. Good Lord man! Are you able to read? FYI, you are doing it wrong, as are all the other illiterate crybaby heavies that complain. Please see my OP and read before posting. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1056	Posted - 2014.08.23 05:03:00 - [38] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: I truly wonder what goes through CCPs minds when they make changes. The regular hmg was already OP as hell compared to every other weapon. Its only true drawback was it could be outranged by light weapons, but since the vast majority of maps and objectives force players into the hmgs sphere of CQC dominance, being outranged was a moot point. So in their infinite wisdom CCP takes the weaker version of the most OP weapon in the game, buffs the shyte out of it and it is now the new king badass OP weapon, making the former hmg look like a joke, even though the former hmg was an insta killing death ray. Now the six kin is just a turbo Insta killing death ray, with one small change...you actually kinda have to aim now instead of the spray and pray of the boundless. Bravo CCP, bravo. I can only assume that AUR sales factor into their decisions as well as actual gameplay. Because, that's why.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1279	Posted - 2014.08.23 05:22:00 - [39] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: Thumb Green wrote: I still do fine against the burst with my MH-82, well 1v1 anyways, it's when there's two of them I get worried. The burst eats through ammo too quickly and after it overheats the one using it is fcked; hell you could shotgun him to death from 20 meters away before the thing cools down (seems like it anyways). Still, the burst is damn good when the blueberries don't get in your line of fire (I swear they did it intentionally every time I pulled the trigger last time I used it). J4yne C0bb wrote: 2) The burst is a skill weapon -- you basically have about 4-5 bursts before you have to reload, I think? Makes timing essential to it's use -- if you are caught in a reload at the wrong time or miss your bursts, you're screwed.. Sounds more like luck than skill to me but whatever. Luck? Hardly. No more luck than a shotgun scout is 'lucky'. The burst HMG basically operates like a short range SG, requiring the same type of aiming skill. Put some Kin Cats on my suit and I'm basically a fat, slow, highly visible scout. I'm like Kung Fu Panda with a burst weapon! +1 for the Kung Fu Panda. Anyways, the shotgun is a short range SG and the burst is more like a mid range SG. Honestly, I don't see how you could compare aiming the burst with aiming the SG though. The optimal and effective range of the burst is a good bit farther than the SG that I just can't see the comparison unless the person you're trying to shoot is right on top of you but if that's the case then the same comparison could be made with almost every other weapon. At the RJC we don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Kill Scotty
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2158	Posted - 2014.08.23 22:45:00 - [40] - Quote Except the burst does twice the SG's damage while having equal "rounds" per clip with 8x the range...still not seeing balance here "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4437	Posted - 2014.08.23 23:02:00 - [41] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: So all in all, I don't really think the burst is OP, compared to how the HMG normally performs. It's comparable to how the shotgun operates now -- SGs put mercs down in 1-3 shots, but no one is asking for a shotgun nerf. The SG kills light and medium frames in 1-3 shots, provided they're within 5 meters. The Burst HMG hits many times harder at far greater range. I don't see how these weapons are comparable. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1218	Posted - 2014.08.23 23:08:00 - [42] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: The burst is perfect. It's DPS is just high enough for people to rage. Just lower it by 1000 and it'll be fine. Also the normal HMG is just a different playstyle. na dude its not perfect or fine. i never defend something that i use that is clearly OP. i run a burst on my heavy in PC and yes it needs a nerf. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 719	Posted - 2014.08.23 23:31:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: So all in all, I don't really think the burst is OP, compared to how the HMG normally performs. It's comparable to how the shotgun operates now -- SGs put mercs down in 1-3 shots, but no one is asking for a shotgun nerf. The SG kills light and medium frames in 1-3 shots, provided they're within 5 meters. The Burst HMG hits many times harder at far greater range. I don't see how these weapons are comparable. Most SG scouts down me in 1-2 shots in my scout or logi suit, and 2-3 in my heavy. Scouts may not have the range, but they don't need it -- they have the dampening and speed to pwn me before I even know they are there, and be gone in a flash. However, I'm seeing on protofits.com that the Effective Range of the MLR-A is 52.5m. Does seem a bit high, but honestly, I don't think I've killed anything at that range, most of my kills are around 10 to 30. I'll have to start paying attention to this -- I do agree, 50m is a bit much, to be fair. I didn't expect that number to be that high. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman


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