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The Scrambler Rifle - A fair assessment

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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3338	Posted - 2014.08.20 21:09:00 - [1] - Quote As we all know the Scrambler Rifle is currently get quite a bit of stick. Some of it fair some of it not, most of it biased. With that in mind I'm hoping to ignore all of that and show just the pure maths. From talking to other players and through personal experience, 7 shots a second is a reasonable ROF for the scrambler rifle, excluding turbos and FOTM followers. The average human click speed is 6 per second so this isn't unlikely. Let's Start by looking at the stats on a scrambler rifle. Now at 7 shots a second the DPS (excluding charge) is 539 According to most people the ScR overheats within 14 shots at profciency 0, this is also included my own personal experience. This gives 2 seconds BEFORE overheat and 5 second seize duration. (However firing 13 shots means you cooldown within 2 seconds) If we include the charge shot which does 2.5 times damage and overheats with only 7 shots on average. We see a DPS of 659 but only 1 second before overheat. And then of course the 5 second seizure. Now let's look at the Assault Rifle (The short range high DPS weapon) At the fully automatic ROF of 800 RPM (13 shots a second) the DPS equates to 453 With this ROF you get a 6 second magazine before reload is required. So now let's stack the 2 together I will put the Assault on the left and the scrambler on the right. DPS vs Shields: 498 vs 646 DPS vs Armour: 407 vs 431 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming no Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 1,078 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge and Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,078 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,617 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 2,176 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 3,234 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,977 As you can see the user of the scrambler rifle can choose to either Alpha damage them to death in less than 2 seconds, or they can outlast them in a marathon of combat that only the scrambler rifle can maintain. Strangely the Charge shot is actually worse in any event where you don't kill your opponent within the first second. Wether you like it or not the scrambler rifle needs tweaking and conaidering it's possible to achieve an extra 4 shots a secomd at the moment it most DEFINITELY needs a more reasonable ROF cap. Personally I suggest a simple nerf to the ROF, it currently stands at 705 RPM approximately 11 a second, this gives too much room for abuse. As you can see at 7 a second the scrambler rifle already outclasses the AR. I would personally prefer around 368 RPM which is JUST over 6 shots a second. Which comes in at 467 DPS, which is only 15 more than the AR so as to give some leeway for the overheat mechanic. This shouldn't really effect the feel of the weapon for most people. Does this seem reasonable? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3341	Posted - 2014.08.20 21:33:00 - [2] - Quote Kyr Kitar wrote: I'm confused. You show a nice table with DPS values over time which shows the assault rifle is a more consistent form of DPS vs an ever-changing gun that depends on several factors to achieve a maximum DPS but as a big possibility of having less DPS. Then you say the ScR outclasses the AR and want it toned down. Que? All your numbers show the ScR achieves less DPS save for the first 2 seconds without overheating and once in a 10sec battle with specific actions taking place. Looking at your DPS table, the ScR falls behind on the AR. To the contrary, as you can see the ScR firstly severly outclasses it in CQC, the only way to beat it is to outlast the overheat, which as the tables show is incredibly difficult. You are also not considering the fact the Scrambler Rifle gets this DPS at nearly 30m further range than the AR does, seriously improving it's effectiveness. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3341	Posted - 2014.08.20 21:36:00 - [3] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Wit a RoF of 368 RPM you will kill the scrambler rifle off. Don't be stupid please. Recently the Tac AR received a RoF buff that made it just about use-able again. The Scrambler should certainly not lose too much RoF if much at all. As per usual.....not a force for reasonable balancing on these here forums...no..... crazy nerf threads as per usual. No wonder this game is going downhill fast. Would you care to explain your reasoning? It will fire 1 round slower per second for most people, unless of course your shooting at nearly 9 rounds a second as being proposed by some people, or would you like me to actually start calculating the maximum DPS's? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3341	Posted - 2014.08.20 21:38:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So now let's stack the 2 together I will put the Assault on the left and the scrambler on the right. DPS vs Shields: 498 vs 646 DPS vs Armour: 407 vs 431 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming no Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 1,078 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge and Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,078 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,617 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 2,176 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 3,234 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,977 As you can see the user of the scrambler rifle can choose to either Alpha damage them to death in less than 2 seconds, or they can outlast them in a marathon of combat that only the scrambler rifle can maintain. Strangely the Charge shot is actually worse in any event where you don't kill your opponent within the first second. Wait what? Outlast them? You've just shown the SCR is much worse at marathoning damage. 368 RPM is also batshit insane. That'll utterly kill the weapon. Except no reload They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3342	Posted - 2014.08.20 22:06:00 - [5] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Would you care to explain your reasoning? It will fire 1 round slower per second for most people, unless of course your shooting at nearly 9 rounds a second as being proposed by some people, or would you like me to actually start calculating the maximum DPS's? Because you don't max out the fire rate of 368 RPM unless you tap at -exactly- the right interval. Got, say, 80 milliseconds between shots? Tap once, then tap 70ms later and the second tap won't go through because you've tried to fire it too early. Then if your tap rate is consistently at that speed you'll miss loads of shots. Your paper statistics of hitting the perfect fire rate just doesn't happen. It doesn't even happen with a lot of modded controllers because it has to be so precisely on time. You lose DPS to it. That's an inevitability. You can wave paper statistics all you like, but it will never happen in the actual game. The weapon will lose an absolute bucketload of DPS even past your suggested paper number. It would instantly kill off the weapon's usage. This is why I made 368 not 360, but I would be happy to go as far as 405. Oversampling is considerably less of a problem than the current 705 RPM allowing for complete and utter abuse. It simply should not be capable of firing more than 6 shots a second. That or we could simply nerf it's damage until it does a reasonable amount of DPS at max ROF. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3342	Posted - 2014.08.20 22:09:00 - [6] - Quote RendonaSix wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So now let's stack the 2 together I will put the Assault on the left and the scrambler on the right. DPS vs Shields: 498 vs 646 DPS vs Armour: 407 vs 431 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming no Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 1,078 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge and Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,078 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,617 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 2,176 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 3,234 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,977 As you can see the user of the scrambler rifle can choose to either Alpha damage them to death in less than 2 seconds, or they can outlast them in a marathon of combat that only the scrambler rifle can maintain. Strangely the Charge shot is actually worse in any event where you don't kill your opponent within the first second. Wait what? Outlast them? You've just shown the SCR is much worse at marathoning damage. 368 RPM is also batshit insane. That'll utterly kill the weapon. Except no reload Wouldn't that increase the time until overheat as well?. If so, it actually sounds pretty nice. Probably you'll get more time between shots for cooldown. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3342	Posted - 2014.08.20 22:28:00 - [7] - Quote diablo gamekeeper wrote: Well, the SR really doesn't need a ROF nerf, its a skill weapon, and the CQC dispersion is already really high. If it should have a ROF nerf, make it 650. But, I still want to know why RR have yet to get nerf. It's got lower dispersion than the AR. It's no more skilled than any other rifle. As for the RR I'm working on that too, but public opinion is against the ScR right now amd as a wise man once say All Rivers lead to ocean, don't fight upstream just for shorter river I would rather the RR, CR, Projectile Damage profile all be nerfed first I would rathe the Sidearms, Sniper Rifles, LAV's, SP Sinks all be buffed first. But the ScR CERTAINLY needs some regulation (even if just a little) I'm not gonna fight against that opinion, because I believe in it. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3342	Posted - 2014.08.20 22:42:00 - [8] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: As we all know the Scrambler Rifle is currently get quite a bit of stick. Some of it fair some of it not, most of it biased. With that in mind I'm hoping to ignore all of that and show just the pure maths. From talking to other players and through personal experience, 7 shots a second is a reasonable ROF for the scrambler rifle, excluding turbos and FOTM followers. The average human click speed is 6 per second so this isn't unlikely. Let's Start by looking at the stats on a scrambler rifle. Now at 7 shots a second the DPS (excluding charge) is 539 According to most people the ScR overheats within 14 shots at profciency 0, this is also included my own personal experience. This gives 2 seconds BEFORE overheat and 5 second seize duration. (However firing 13 shots means you cooldown within 2 seconds) If we include the charge shot which does 2.5 times damage and overheats with only 7 shots on average. We see a DPS of 659 but only 1 second before overheat. And then of course the 5 second seizure. Now let's look at the Assault Rifle (The short range high DPS weapon) At the fully automatic ROF of 800 RPM (13 shots a second) the DPS equates to 453 With this ROF you get a 6 second magazine before reload is required. So now let's stack the 2 together I will put the Assault on the left and the scrambler on the right. DPS vs Shields: 498 vs 646 DPS vs Armour: 407 vs 431 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming no Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 1,078 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge and Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,078 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,617 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 2,176 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 3,234 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,977 As you can see the user of the scrambler rifle can choose to either Alpha damage them to death in less than 2 seconds, or they can outlast them in a marathon of combat that only the scrambler rifle can maintain. Strangely the Charge shot is actually worse in any event where you don't kill your opponent within the first second. Wether you like it or not the scrambler rifle needs tweaking and conaidering it's possible to achieve an extra 4 shots a secomd at the moment it most DEFINITELY needs a more reasonable ROF cap. Personally I suggest a simple nerf to the ROF, it currently stands at 705 RPM approximately 11 a second, this gives too much room for abuse. As you can see at 7 a second the scrambler rifle already outclasses the AR. I would personally prefer around 368 RPM which is JUST over 6 shots a second. Which comes in at 467 DPS, which is only 15 more than the AR so as to give some leeway for the overheat mechanic. This shouldn't really effect the feel of the weapon for most people. Does this seem reasonable? To use a ScR, you either kill fast or be killed. The biggest drawback of the ScR now is that if you engage two enemies, you're most likely going to overheat which is almost a guaranteed death. The ScR may have a high dps but if you miss a few of those you just put yourself at a disadvantage in the fight. Accuracy while using the ScR is a big factor unlike AR whereas even if you miss a few, you keep shooting. The ScR is deadly towards the enemy and potentially deadly towards yourself. I have seen proto scouts running proto Viziams and I have beat them with militia AR's because the overheat. No RoF nerf needed, move along folks. So shooting at 11 shots per second (which by the way slows the heat build up) and achieving over 700 dps is perfectly fine? Or would you rather I nerf the damage until at 11 shots a second it still comes in at under the AR? (Which by the way would be a wopping 40% damage nerf) Once again unless you are abusing the weapons ROF, you'll barely notice the difference. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3343	Posted - 2014.08.20 22:58:00 - [9] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: diablo gamekeeper wrote: Well, the SR really doesn't need a ROF nerf, its a skill weapon, and the CQC dispersion is already really high. If it should have a ROF nerf, make it 650. But, I still want to know why RR have yet to get nerf. It's got lower dispersion than the AR. It's no more skilled than any other rifle. As for the RR I'm working on that too, but public opinion is against the ScR right now amd as a wise man once say All Rivers lead to ocean, don't fight upstream just for shorter river I would rather the RR, CR, Projectile Damage profile all be nerfed first I would rathe the Sidearms, Sniper Rifles, LAV's, SP Sinks all be buffed first. But the ScR CERTAINLY needs some regulation (even if just a little) I'm not gonna fight against that opinion, because I believe in it. High DPS is the only thing that is good about ScR. Everything else is a drawback. Armor tanked with 900+ armor Heavies- unkillable without an overheat even with proto Amarr Assault. You ca't even engage tow enemies without risking an overheat. Overheat is the Balance. I don't know about you but ScR overheats like a Bch without and Amarr Assault. IF you want to lower the RoF below 400, you better remove the overheat and buff damage to 100 per shot. Fun Fact: The TAR right now has a DPS of 800. I don't see you QQing about the TAR. That's next don't worry. As my DPS shows your not nearly as armour gimped as you think, furthermore killing a heavy in under a mag or overheat in the ScR's case isn't exactly unreasonable. From MY personal experience, this character who gets the mlt variant for free on a frontline suit, has overheated twice in 10 matches, once because I was engaging 5 people (still beat them all) and once against a brick tanked heavy, where I got a little carried away (he had 56 armour left and died almost instantly to someone who spawned in with an Ion Pistol) I do have operation lvl 1, like I do with EVERY weapon, no profciency, no assault suit, nothing. Only Protos and the odd ADV with hit detection going his way are really any problem. However in the inrest of balance I specifically specced an alt into amarr assaults and scr prof 5, it churns out the kills and probably more if I didn't keep trying to play it like a Minnie. If you want my opinion the reason it's back in the limelight now is because of the assault buff, before charlie the Assault wasn't really a viable platform and the weapon isn't exactly user friendly either. Now that Assaults are more common you see more people who can't be bothered/ incapable of managing that rather generous overheat using it, because the Amarr Assault allows them to keep going. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3352	Posted - 2014.08.21 11:12:00 - [10] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. P.S. This was a fair assessment. Don't compare it to weapons of a different variant. Considering the Gallante Assault Rifle is the lowest range and SHOULD be highest DPS, I think it's perfectly fair to compare the two. The TAC variant rifle are, designed to be longer range, yet they have ridiculous DPS compared to any other rifle. How is this even remotely fair? The only reason I compare, them is because the ScR does so well at Assault Rifle range. As you can see the ScR outclasses the AR, for over 1,000 eHP worth of damage, that's more than your regular medium suit, or even an untanked heavy. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3352	Posted - 2014.08.21 11:26:00 - [11] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. The ScR has overheat, TAR doesn't. 600 minimum. I honestly think 600 is too much. Almost nobody can do that with their fingers. The trick is to find a balancing point. A place where modded controllers aren't overwhelmingly good, but yet very few people can oversample it regularly. That's the problem though, we either make it so EVERYONE is firing at about the same speed, or we nerf the damage, then those that can't fire fast enough end up with a weapon they can't use. I would be prepared to go to 417 RPM They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3352	Posted - 2014.08.21 11:27:00 - [12] - Quote TRULY ELITE wrote: The scrambler has been fine before Charlie, not 1 nerf thread, many were asking for buffs but BAM! Charlie hits and everybody's starts crying about the weapon which has been left the same since 1.8 hit. DON'T BLAME THE WEAPON, BLAME DMG MODS. Leave the scrambler rifle alone. Damage Mods aren't the problem otherwise the weapon being complained in Bravo would still be getting all the stick They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3353	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:03:00 - [13] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Sure, whatever. Just means I'll kill ScR users more easily now. Unless your firing at 8 shots or more a second, the change would be 77 dps less, with an averave of 420. This would in make it lower than the Gallante Assault Rifle, Assault Scrambler Rifle only. It would still out DPS A fixed Combat Rifle A fixed TACAR A Burst Assault Rifle An Assault Combat Rifle An Assault Rail Rifle A Rail Rifle They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3353	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:08:00 - [14] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: The rpm needs to be 600, I just can't deal with another bs Scp The RoF of the ScP never exceeded 525(Carthum AScP), so I don't see how 503 is too low. Have you fired a scp lately? Because if you have surely you notice how unfluidly it fires. You mean you can't fire it continously, it acts more like a revolver, I like it. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3353	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:34:00 - [15] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: As we all know the Scrambler Rifle is currently get quite a bit of stick. Some of it fair some of it not, most of it biased. With that in mind I'm hoping to ignore all of that and show just the pure maths. From talking to other players and through personal experience, 7 shots a second is a reasonable ROF for the scrambler rifle, excluding turbos and FOTM followers. The average human click speed is 6 per second so this isn't unlikely. Let's Start by looking at the stats on a scrambler rifle. Now at 7 shots a second the DPS (excluding charge) is 539 According to most people the ScR overheats within 14 shots at profciency 0, this is also included my own personal experience. This gives 2 seconds BEFORE overheat and 5 second seize duration. (However firing 13 shots means you cooldown within 2 seconds) If we include the charge shot which does 2.5 times damage and overheats with only 7 shots on average. We see a DPS of 659 but only 1 second before overheat. And then of course the 5 second seizure. Now let's look at the Assault Rifle (The short range high DPS weapon) At the fully automatic ROF of 800 RPM (13 shots a second) the DPS equates to 453 With this ROF you get a 6 second magazine before reload is required. So now let's stack the 2 together I will put the Assault on the left and the scrambler on the right. DPS vs Shields: 498 vs 646 DPS vs Armour: 407 vs 431 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming no Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 1,078 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming Charge and Seizure) 906 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,078 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,617 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 2,265 vs 659 DPS over 5 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 2,265 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 2,176 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 3,234 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,318 DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 1,977 As you can see the user of the scrambler rifle can choose to either Alpha damage them to death in less than 2 seconds, or they can outlast them in a marathon of combat that only the scrambler rifle can maintain. Strangely the Charge shot is actually worse in any event where you don't kill your opponent within the first second. Wether you like it or not the scrambler rifle needs tweaking and conaidering it's possible to achieve an extra 4 shots a secomd at the moment it most DEFINITELY needs a more reasonable ROF cap. Personally I suggest a simple nerf to the ROF, it currently stands at 705 RPM approximately 11 a second, this gives too much room for abuse. As you can see at 7 a second the scrambler rifle already outclasses the AR. I would personally prefer around 417 RPM which is JUST over 6 shots a second. Which comes in at 467 DPS, which is only 15 more than the AR so as to give some leeway for the overheat mechanic. This shouldn't really effect the feel of the weapon for most people. Does this seem reasonable? Basically, the AR outdoes the SCR on almost every situation except for 2 situations out of your 12 encounters you present us and still want the SCR nerfed ? I don't follow .... Quote: DPS over 2 seconds (Assuming no Charge, no Seizure) 906 vs 1,078 Ok so we have a 172 lead of damage here, and we need to stop firing or our gun seizes, the AR still at that point has 4 more seconds or 1812 Damage left inside it's clip, if we did not kill it with the lead damage, we are basically dead here Quote: DPS over 10 seconds (Assuming No Charge, No Seizure) 3,171 vs 3,234 Oh look 63 damage difference over a 10 second sustained battle....this 63 damage comes at the price of having to adjust shots to compensate for heat. So basically AR pulls a 10 vs 2 win and the SCR needs a nerf ? Edit: i can get in about 8-9 taps without loosing accuracy per second (Mouse) Yes, because as you will see most engagements aren't going to last past 5 seconds. With the exception of heavies how many enimies have over 1,000 DPS. It should really be that the AR wins out in the shorter engagements (at CQC) but not in the longer engagements (at Range). Currently the ScR does this behaviour at CQC ranges, you feel this is fair. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3353	Posted - 2014.08.21 12:35:00 - [16] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: The rpm needs to be 600, I just can't deal with another bs Scp The RoF of the ScP never exceeded 525(Carthum AScP), so I don't see how 503 is too low. Have you fired a scp lately? Because if you have surely you notice how unfluidly it fires. You mean you can't fire it continously, it acts more like a revolver, I like it. So you like how if you tap R1 out of sync it basically jams? I like the feel of the weapon, yeah, yeah I do! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3354	Posted - 2014.08.21 16:20:00 - [17] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: bamboo x wrote: Sure, whatever. Just means I'll kill ScR users more easily now. Unless your firing at 8 shots or more a second, the change would be 77 dps less, with an averave of 420. This would in make it lower than the Gallante Assault Rifle, Assault Scrambler Rifle only. Bah! How dare you speak to an AR user like he doesn't even realize everything in the game does more DPS than him. Hell, I hardly remember the days when it was OP... they're all glazed over from 1.7 crushing my hopes and dreams. So your happy with them being underpowered, purely because everything else is unbalanced by comparison. I'm not trying to nerf it into the ground, I'm just trying to regulate fairly. To be honest I think the RR should have 300 DPS and the ScR 350, but I'm trying to be fair. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3354	Posted - 2014.08.21 17:08:00 - [18] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Wit a RoF of 368 RPM you will kill the scrambler rifle off. Don't be stupid please. Recently the Tac AR received a RoF buff that made it just about use-able again. The Scrambler should certainly not lose too much RoF if much at all. As per usual.....not a force for reasonable balancing on these here forums...no..... crazy nerf threads as per usual. No wonder this game is going downhill fast. Would you care to explain your reasoning? It will fire 1 round slower per second for most people, unless of course your shooting at nearly 9 rounds a second as being proposed by some people, or would you like me to actually start calculating the maximum DPS's? Well what do you expect when you put Good people against bad people ? aren't the good people supposed to be having any advantages for being good at FPS games. Lets see, if i am reduced to 6 rounds a second, for the whole whopping 15-20 Additional damage i might do, WHY would i still use the scrambler ? Idd just get a fancy 6 second firing time gun, put this one on paperweight duty and call it quits, like pretty much where the Tactical has been all this time. Quote: To be honest I think the RR should have 300 DPS and the ScR 350, but I'm trying to be fair. You do know we would just all jump back onto the AR bandwagon and then you would want suits to get nerfed because everyone is using the same gun now so "you" need to get something else nerfed to get better at this game. Just get over it, Guns kill sht, use whatever fits your style of fighting most, mine is using Semi-Auto Long Range weapons in CQC, whats yours? So basically unless it has the potential to be the highest DPS weapon available you won't use it, why use any other weapon when it can achieve such blistering values, at huge ranges. Like you said it will kill stuff, the difference being other stuff will kill you more. That's the whole point of this game. Or should we just go back to COD where everything dies in 2 shots? The TACAR is still used, even I use if from time to time. I don't want to get better I simply want every weapon to be balanced. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh* and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3354	Posted - 2014.08.21 18:13:00 - [19] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: bamboo x wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: bamboo x wrote: Sure, whatever. Just means I'll kill ScR users more easily now. Unless your firing at 8 shots or more a second, the change would be 77 dps less, with an averave of 420. This would in make it lower than the Gallante Assault Rifle, Assault Scrambler Rifle only. Bah! How dare you speak to an AR user like he doesn't even realize everything in the game does more DPS than him. Hell, I hardly remember the days when it was OP... they're all glazed over from 1.7 crushing my hopes and dreams. So your happy with them being underpowered, purely because everything else is unbalanced by comparison. I'm not trying to nerf it into the ground, I'm just trying to regulate fairly. To be honest I think the RR should have 300 DPS and the ScR 350, but I'm trying to be fair. And CR should remain as the dominant weapon ?! No the CR would be 400. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3355	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:01:00 - [20] - Quote diablo gamekeeper wrote: Well, monkey, you've officially gotten on my nerves, acting like you're going to completely fix dust. I want to know something, why do you want the ScR to be nerfed? Those who try to do the best often get on the nerves of the many. I personally want the scrambler rifle nerfed because I think it has 1) A high Capacity for abuse 2) Does not follow the standard doctrine of having lower DPS at a longer range. 3) Has a rather ridiculous burst damage for those of us who have the ability to tap a button very fast During this thread I have done my best not to whine, through conjecture or circumstantial evidence around. I have simply attempted to show the story the maths shows with the best of my abilities. Futhermore are we not all trying to fix DUST, is that not why we are all here on the forums arguing back and forth about every which way? If you want to know my personal opinion about the scrambler rifle, I think it's an Insane weapon, I've got operation lvl 1 (like I do with every weapon, though I'm planning on lvl 3 for all the rifles to access the assault variants), but I stil use the MLT variant. Because I simply don't need the extra mag, that and it's free on my Frontline suit. I love using it, aiming feels mildly aloof, which I would expect when firing a weapon that shoots beams of light. Yet the shots hit with a satisfying amount of weight, for me a high ROF is easy to achieve so I have worries about slicing through most suits. The only ones that give me any personal problems are bricked protos a d few people who clearly have the hit detection gods on their side that day. I love the charge function amd 1 shotting weaker suits with it. Flanking is also such more suited to this weapon than the Combat Rifles, something I found rather strange. I've got no personal vendetta against this or any other weapon (though full auto BCR's are certainly the top of my list). I just think if we are going to reach complete balance it needs a little regulation, that's all. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3355	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:03:00 - [21] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: "I like the feel of the weapon, yeah, yeah I do!" ROFL I know right! I love how absolutely **** it feels to overheat the Ion Pistol as well! Guns that feel clunky and awkward to use are great, aren't they!? Stop with the low RoF bullshit. Nobody but you actually wants it. 503. I love the Ion Pistol, it's on half my suits. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3