What would benefit rail tech weapons on a caldari assault bonus without it becoming OP? The old sharpshooter bonus would be nice, but it would cause rage among the nooblets. What do you think it should be? I don't think a copy and paste of the commando bonus is really worth it...

What would benefit rail tech weapons on a caldari assault bonus without it becoming OP? The old sharpshooter bonus would be nice, but it would cause rage among the nooblets. What do you think it should be? I don't think a copy and paste of the commando bonus is really worth it...

I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really.

I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really.

I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really.

I don't really like bonuses to racial weapons because what if you don't like that particular weapon... it limits you

Honestly I think that shuld be a third bonus so it's:
Role bonus
Weapon bonus
Type of tank bonus

In this case: Amarr bonus = 3-5% more armor per level, Caldari bonus = 3-5% more shield per level, minmatar bonus = 3-5% to shield recharge rate per level, and Gallente bonus = bonus to armor repair rate per level.

EDIT: I don't think a bonus to RoF would be...a Caldari bonus...it would be good for the Gallente though.

How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time?

How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time?

How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time?

I'm a caldari assault (currently skilling up into one) and I only have one fit with the rail rifle. It's just a garbage weapon unless you use it for harassing people at a range.

I'm a caldari assault (currently skilling up into one) and I only have one fit with the rail rifle. It's just a garbage weapon unless you use it for harassing people at a range.

Reload speed in the case of Caldari Assault is just....lame. However it needs to follow the "Weapon Support" theme that the other 3 have, so increasing DPS or defenses isn't gonna fly. Couple thoughts to kick around

~Reduced Charge & Lock Time for Caldari Weapons
~Reduced Recoil for Caldari Weapons

Reduced recoil would make the most sense, and it would definitely help the magsec out a bunch (since the bonus applies to both light and sidearm weapons). Recoil all the way, it shouldn't be anything else.

Commandos already have reload speed...don't understand why Caldari assault is also to reload.

Reduced recoil would make the most sense, and it would definitely help the magsec out a bunch (since the bonus applies to both light and sidearm weapons). Recoil all the way, it shouldn't be anything else.

Commandos already have reload speed...don't understand why Caldari assault is also to reload.

I'd rather us not make Caldari Assaults with RR the next FOTM. Superior at range and in CQC, this is why we can never have a balanced game that people don't consider these things.

Commandos should be the go-to for damage, Assaults should be the go to for improved weapon performance. With the coming HP improvements to assaults in Charlie we don't really need shield mod efficacy.... so that leaves us with RoF, Range, Kick or extended magazine size.

RoF - No, just no. This is flat out a DPS inflating number and it completely messes with balance. Amarr assault bonus doesn't affect dps (except on laser, where damage is backended), just number of shots down range, Gal assault bonus (which I quite like) improves theoretical dps at range but also allows you to do stuff like hipfire tac ars, min bonus once again only affects shots down range.

Range - This is also a bad option, as it throws away the range standardizations we just received. It would either need to be so small that it doesn't matter, or it's way too powerful of a bonus, even a 2% range bonus per level adds almost another 10m of base range to rail.

Extended magazines - This is okay, but I don't feel it would really have that much of an impact on the railrifle.

Kick - This is what I feel would be the best option, mitigating a lot of the jump that rail weapons have while aimed down sight and actually greatly improving their performance when doing stuff like hip-firing.

Spool-time - Honestly would probably have to small of an impact to matter unless the bonus was something insane.

Damage - Puts the cal assault in direct competition with cal commando for bonus value. Commandos should be the go to for damage and versatility, Assault should be the suit you choose when you go "I want this weapon to perform be the best it ever possibly could outside of damage".

What Caldari weapon locks? Inb4 the swarm launcher, then why does my calmmando not get a bonus to swarms? Because it isn't hybrid rail? Well why don't minmmandos get bonus to remote explosives and grenades if it's solely based on damage type? ****'s ********.

Charge make a .2 second charge a .18 charge. It's useless, and reducing recoil on rail rifles would break them and make them OP. There isn't anything that can really be done with rail tech that won't break the weapons. They just need to stop it with these weapon specific buffs to assaults.

That's why they gave us reload, because even though that's also pretty garbage nothing can be done nominally to rail weapons that won't make them OP. You reduce the kick and it will melt targets it has nearly twice the damage of the combat rifle with far more range. Its real disadvantage at the moment is that the kick + spool up makes hipfire luck based. If you reduce the kick it will become absurd and lead to a nerf in delta that was wasted time they could of spent on other things.

The stubbornness of using disproportionate suits and bonuses will just keep perpetuating the buff/ner cycles.

There are still superior CQC guns over the rail rifle, and the amarr assault is far more likely to become to next FOTM if anything with that kind of EHP, scrambler rifle, and damage mod stacking. They'll see to it that caldari assaults burn lol.

What Caldari weapon locks? Inb4 the swarm launcher, then why does my calmmando not get a bonus to swarms? Because it isn't hybrid rail? Well why don't minmmandos get bonus to remote explosives and grenades if it's solely based on damage type? ****'s ********.

Charge make a .2 second charge a .18 charge. It's useless, and reducing recoil on rail rifles would break them and make them OP. There isn't anything that can really be done with rail tech that won't break the weapons. They just need to stop it with these weapon specific buffs to assaults.

That's why they gave us reload, because even though that's also pretty garbage nothing can be done nominally to rail weapons that won't make them OP. You reduce the kick and it will melt targets it has nearly twice the damage of the combat rifle with far more range. Its real disadvantage at the moment is that the kick + spool up makes hipfire luck based. If you reduce the kick it will become absurd and lead to a nerf in delta that was wasted time they could of spent on other things.

The stubbornness of using disproportionate suits and bonuses will just keep perpetuating the buff/ner cycles.

Well yeah just like the shotgun is better in CQC then the assault rifle or the mass driver has better AOE then a combat rifle.... but last I checked when a gun is too good it's based on how well it performs in various situations and not that it performs the best in all situations. There are better CQC guns over the rail rifle even if it had less kick, but how many of those weapons have the rail rifles range? Last I checked rifle wise, the sniper rifle which has no reticle at the hip and cerebral palsy when quick scoped. The laser rifle is pretty much the worst gun in CQC. You reduce the recoil and the rail rifle will be pretty amazing in CQC (right now the spread makes it luck based as to whether or not the AR or CR will kill you in close range assuming you both can keep the reticle on one another.) Then compound that with the fact that the Rail Rifle will be amazing in long range engagements and you have the making of an OP combination.

Like I said, the failure of CCP to recognize these facts or give in to absurd demands from the community is what keeps us constantly in nerf/buff cycles.

Honestly, the Cal assault should have the Calmando's bonus.

It is an assault suit.

As it stands, I can take a Calmando put on a sniper rifle with mods, and a swarm launcher, have a nanohive, and practically own a battlefield.
Go up high, snipe to my hearts content, easily tank any counter-snipers, AND shoot down any incoming dropships.

Point is, it doesnt need the damage bonus. Give that damage bonus to the Cal assault on the ground that need to try and counter snipe.

I'd rather us not make Caldari Assaults with RR the next FOTM. Superior at range and in CQC, this is why we can never have a balanced game that people don't consider these things.

Look dude...even if all rail rifle shots connected, it doesn't have enough DPS for competitive play.

Well yeah just like the shotgun is better in CQC then the assault rifle or the mass driver has better AOE then a combat rifle.... but last I checked when a gun is too good it's based on how well it performs in various situations and not that it performs the best in all situations. There are better CQC guns over the rail rifle even if it had less kick, but how many of those weapons have the rail rifles range? Last I checked rifle wise, the sniper rifle has no reticle at the hip and cerebral palsy when quick scoped. The laser rifle is pretty much the worst gun in CQC. You reduce the recoil and the rail rifle will be pretty amazing in CQC (right now the spread makes it luck based as to whether or not the AR or CR will kill you in close range assuming you both can keep the reticle on one another.) Then compound that with the fact that the Rail Rifle will be amazing in long range engagements and you have the making of an OP combination.

Like I said, the failure of CCP to recognize these facts or give in to absurd demands from the community is what keeps us constantly in nerf/buff cycles.

What would benefit rail tech weapons on a caldari assault bonus without it becoming OP? The old sharpshooter bonus would be nice, but it would cause rage among the nooblets. What do you think it should be? I don't think a copy and paste of the commando bonus is really worth it...

Since you feel so strongly, why don't you list out the bonuses you would give each suit if you had complete control?

Look dude...even if all rail rifle shots connected, it doesn't have enough DPS for competitive play.

Reduce the RR's optimal range by between 15-20% and then have an Assault bonus that increase optimal range by 5% per level.

Alright well considering assaults are the medium suit slayer types:

Gallente: Armor rep efficiency. Downtime is the Gallente's greatest enemy with abysmal shields and high armor.

Caldari: Increased shield efficiency. The Caldari are the shield tankers and as such, the assault should have large shield recharge per tick.

Minmitar: Reduced shield recharge delay. The Minmitar are speed tankers primarily and are designed to bounce in and out of combat.

Amarr: Increased armor plating efficiency. The Amarr are the slow but heavy tankers, they are designed to have the most amount of e/hp buffer and there is where they accelerate in killing.

You want weapon affinities, role a commando.

Alright well considering assaults are the medium suit slayer types:

Gallente: Armor rep efficiency. Downtime is the Gallente's greatest enemy with abysmal shields and high armor.

Caldari: Increased shield recharge. The Caldari are the shield tankers and as such, the assault should have large shield recharge per tick.

Minmitar: Reduced shield recharge delay. The Minmitar are speed tankers primarily and are designed to bounce in and out of combat.

Amarr: Increased armor plating efficiency. The Amarr are the slow but heavy tankers, they are designed to have the most amount of e/hp buffer and there is where they accelerate in killing.

You want weapon affinities, role a commando.

These are things that can more or less be addressed in suit base stats, there's no need for actual bonuses related to them.

I'd be ok with this idea in general. I'd probably move away from the bonus to shield extender/plates for Caldari/Amarr and push for perhaps recharge rate and reduced speed penalty or something of that nature. You need to be particularly careful with defensive bonuses, as bonuses that add eHP are quite powerful, and can cause issues when some suits get it and others in the same role do not.

For Caldari I mean that they will recharge more per tick like the shield energizers, not that they will get higher e/hp like extenders. For Amarr the speed penalty reduction would probably be better as you say since this will counteract their major drawback. To me the assault bonuses should either play to the strengths of the suit or compensate its weaknesses. So the Caldari and Minmitar bonus would play to its strengths while the Gallente and Amarr Bonuses would counter act their weakness.

I don't like the idea of nerfing a weapon so it can then be buffed for a specific suit, not to mention that would bring it down to scrambler rifle range for anything not a cal assault. Unless your planning to nerf the range of that weapon too so it can actually maintain a noticeable difference between optimal ranges.

How about a 5% reduction to optimal range with a 2.5-3% per level increase? It's not a significant nerf, provides a direct boost over other RR users and extends optimal range out by a couple of metres towards its effective range.

For Caldari I mean that they will recharge more per tick like the shield energizers, not that they will get higher e/hp like extenders. For Amarr the speed penalty reduction would probably be better as you say since this will counteract their major drawback. To me the assault bonuses should either play to the strengths of the suit or compensate its weaknesses. So the Caldari and Minmitar bonus would play to its strengths while the Gallente and Amarr Bonuses would counter act their weakness.

The Gallente's only weakness right now is sucking.

Id stress that it's important to tie these to modules and not base stats. Giving base bonuses like a passive armor recharge per second, it actually discourages using reps since you have one already built in. Bonuses should encourage a certain fitting philosophies. I'd personally go with

Gallente: Bonus to Armor Repairers

Caldari: Bonus to Shield Rechargers/Energizers

Minmatar: Bonus to Shield Regulators

Amarr is kind of a goofball since its not really a repping sort of race but I want to avoid boosting eHP since the Amarr Assault will already have terrifying amounts of HP if it stacks a lot of Complex Plates. I'd probably go with one of the following.
~Reduction to Armor Plate Speed Penalty
~Bonus to Ferroscale Plate HP (similar effect, less slowdown, but brings the ferroscale to be more like normal plate HP)
~Bonus to Reactive Plates (A nice mix of HP and reps, without it getting out of hand)

Sounds good to me, though I doubt Rattatai and Logibro will do this.

Honestly I wish we could see this for both Logi's and Assaults, though Logi's to a lesser bonus.

Nothing but PG/CPU is stopping you from using any other rifle

And distracting...discuss political issues.



Meep.