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Tectonic Fusion
1965
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
What would benefit rail tech weapons on a caldari assault bonus without it becoming OP? The old sharpshooter bonus would be nice, but it would cause rage among the nooblets. What do you think it should be? I don't think a copy and paste of the commando bonus is really worth it...
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Heimdallr69
Nyain San
3155
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:What would benefit rail tech weapons on a caldari assault bonus without it becoming OP? The old sharpshooter bonus would be nice, but it would cause rage among the nooblets. What do you think it should be? I don't think a copy and paste of the commando bonus is really worth it... I use all assaults and all light weapons (other than shotguns). My primary is cal with a RR. A potential bonus could be ROF, kick, range, extended clips, 1% DMG per lvl unless that's to similar to commando. I'll update if I get any better ideas.
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Intrepidus XI EoN.
181
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really.
Planetside 2
Eventually
Eh
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
635
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:What would benefit rail tech weapons on a caldari assault bonus without it becoming OP? The old sharpshooter bonus would be nice, but it would cause rage among the nooblets. What do you think it should be? I don't think a copy and paste of the commando bonus is really worth it... 1.5% damage per level, fire rate or range, and not 2% rof per level, like total 20% more rof.
Or a shield module bonus say, 10% or 8% per level to shield regs (it would go from 35 to 55% for complex if it was 10% per level.) And other shield mods.
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Tectonic Fusion
1965
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really. Honestly I think that shuld be a third bonus so it's: Role bonus Weapon bonus Type of tank bonus
In this case: Amarr bonus = 3-5% more armor per level, Caldari bonus = 3-5% more shield per level, minmatar bonus = 3-5% to shield recharge rate per level, and Gallente bonus = bonus to armor repair rate per level.
EDIT: I don't think a bonus to RoF would be...a Caldari bonus...it would be good for the Gallente though.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3930
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really. Yeah it's looking like that is the most favorite bonus but then CCP wouldn't like the Cal assault to be the black sheep in the group. I like the idea of a reduction to charge time but then I'd be so miniscule for all weapons but the charge sniper rifles, which would help it with follow up shots.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3312
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't really like bonuses to racial weapons because what if you don't like that particular weapon... it limits you
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3312
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really.
Shield mod bonus makes more sense
> Check RND out here
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3931
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I don't really like bonuses to racial weapons because what if you don't like that particular weapon... it limits you Nothing but PG/CPU is stopping you from using any other rifle
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2975
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time? |
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2975
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:I'm still swaying towards their previous shield mod efficency bonus, maybe 3 - 4% per level instead of 2? I mean there aren't too many options for them without making them too "OP". Rail rifle ROF increase would knock its dps up a fair amount, range increase would only cause more rail rifle QQ, and reload speed is worthless for that suit really. Honestly I think that shuld be a third bonus so it's: Role bonus Weapon bonus Type of tank bonus In this case: Amarr bonus = 3-5% more armor per level, Caldari bonus = 3-5% more shield per level, minmatar bonus = 3-5% to shield recharge rate per level, and Gallente bonus = bonus to armor repair rate per level. EDIT: I don't think a bonus to RoF would be...a Caldari bonus...it would be good for the Gallente though. I agree with your edit. At least it works for every weapon in their arsenal (and bringing back the old SG prof, in a way). |
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Intrepidus XI EoN.
183
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time?
Maybe along with a secondary bonus, I mean all that does is nerf everyone who isn't a cal assault.
Planetside 2
Eventually
Eh
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
636
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time? Then the bonus would be crap....
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Tectonic Fusion
1965
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time? I'm a caldari assault (currently skilling up into one) and I only have one fit with the rail rifle. It's just a garbage weapon unless you use it for harassing people at a range.
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
354
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Amarr should of sucked it up and taken an inferior bonus like the rest of us. That is the only reason racial weapon bonuses are being talked about and not all suit philosophies have good synergy with weapon philosophies.
ADS weapons on shield tanks? Why? Mobility and low ehp is the hallmark of shield suits.
Short range blasters on armor tanks? Why? And don't tell me the gallente assaults can run kincats. They can, but why the hell would they sack all the e/hp? They would be inferior to the shield tanked suits then.
I just wish the cpm or CCP or whoever the hell keeps batting 1000 for Amarr would stop this ****. The assaults didn't need the heat reduction when the rest of the assaults had **** bonuses. They still don't need it, all assaults should be oriented towards slaying bonus wise not being good at a certain weapon, that's the commando. Rattatai was also going to remove the sidearm from the Amarr logi which was pretty absurd but nope... they get to have more equipment then an assault and carry a sidearm still. They should just give Amarr logi's one more equipment and have their uplinks take effect as long as the equipment exists. A combat logi, why? Why does CCP keep confusing the roles of suits. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
354
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Joel II X wrote:How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time? I'm a caldari assault (currently skilling up into one) and I only have one fit with the rail rifle. It's just a garbage weapon unless you use it for harassing people at a range.
That's because our suits aren't all that great for rail tech. Like I said in my other post, the suit philosophy and weapon philosophy do not fit together. It's all copy pasted from space warfare which isn't the same as infantry warfare.
Having high e/hp works better with rail tech, hence all the rail heavies/sentinels that people loathe. |
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Intrepidus XI EoN.
184
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Joel II X wrote:How about adding more spool to the rail weapons and having the bonus decreasing said spool time? I'm a caldari assault (currently skilling up into one) and I only have one fit with the rail rifle. It's just a garbage weapon unless you use it for harassing people at a range.
Far from it man that thing eats people regardless of the range, and rips through armor like its nothing. Had a cal assault since the beta and skilled into the rail rifle the second it dropped.
Ydubbs you may remember me from way back, tanked for you in hella long time ago in some of your PCs on my main char Hired Pinp.
Planetside 2
Eventually
Eh
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2780
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Reload speed in the case of Caldari Assault is just....lame. However it needs to follow the "Weapon Support" theme that the other 3 have, so increasing DPS or defenses isn't gonna fly. Couple thoughts to kick around
~Reduced Charge & Lock Time for Caldari Weapons ~Reduced Recoil for Caldari Weapons |
ZDub 303
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo
3190
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Posted - 2014.08.12 20:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
I still believe kick reduction would be pretty solid. You can't feather the rail rifle to avoid kick like you can with the AR, which means after a few seconds of sustained fire you're kick is actually meaningful. A 5% per level kick reduction would also work really well on the ARR and on the rail-based sidearms from what I hear on here (i've not skilled into them but I hear the kick is pretty significant on the MSMG and Bolt Pistol).
B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
354
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 20:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Reload speed in the case of Caldari Assault is just....lame. However it needs to follow the "Weapon Support" theme that the other 3 have, so increasing DPS or defenses isn't gonna fly. Couple thoughts to kick around
~Reduced Charge & Lock Time for Caldari Weapons ~Reduced Recoil for Caldari Weapons
What Caldari weapon locks? Inb4 the swarm launcher, then why does my calmmando not get a bonus to swarms? Because it isn't hybrid rail? Well why don't minmmandos get bonus to remote explosives and grenades if it's solely based on damage type? ****'s ********.
Charge make a .2 second charge a .18 charge. It's useless, and reducing recoil on rail rifles would break them and make them OP. There isn't anything that can really be done with rail tech that won't break the weapons. They just need to stop it with these weapon specific buffs to assaults. |
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
48
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Posted - 2014.08.12 21:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Commandos should be the go-to for damage, Assaults should be the go to for improved weapon performance. With the coming HP improvements to assaults in Charlie we don't really need shield mod efficacy.... so that leaves us with RoF, Range, Kick or extended magazine size.
RoF - No, just no. This is flat out a DPS inflating number and it completely messes with balance. Amarr assault bonus doesn't affect dps (except on laser, where damage is backended), just number of shots down range, Gal assault bonus (which I quite like) improves theoretical dps at range but also allows you to do stuff like hipfire tac ars, min bonus once again only affects shots down range.
Range - This is also a bad option, as it throws away the range standardizations we just received. It would either need to be so small that it doesn't matter, or it's way too powerful of a bonus, even a 2% range bonus per level adds almost another 10m of base range to rail.
Extended magazines - This is okay, but I don't feel it would really have that much of an impact on the railrifle.
Kick - This is what I feel would be the best option, mitigating a lot of the jump that rail weapons have while aimed down sight and actually greatly improving their performance when doing stuff like hip-firing.
Spool-time - Honestly would probably have to small of an impact to matter unless the bonus was something insane.
Damage - Puts the cal assault in direct competition with cal commando for bonus value. Commandos should be the go to for damage and versatility, Assault should be the suit you choose when you go "I want this weapon to perform be the best it ever possibly could outside of damage". |
I-Shayz-I
I----------I
4552
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Posted - 2014.08.12 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Reduced recoil would make the most sense, and it would definitely help the magsec out a bunch (since the bonus applies to both light and sidearm weapons). Recoil all the way, it shouldn't be anything else.
Commandos already have reload speed...don't understand why Caldari assault is also to reload.
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THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Intrepidus XI EoN.
184
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 21:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Reduced recoil would make the most sense, and it would definitely help the magsec out a bunch (since the bonus applies to both light and sidearm weapons). Recoil all the way, it shouldn't be anything else.
Commandos already have reload speed...don't understand why Caldari assault is also to reload.
What kind of recoil bonus are you talking about? In terms of percentage.
Planetside 2
Eventually
Eh
|
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
354
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 21:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Reduced recoil would make the most sense, and it would definitely help the magsec out a bunch (since the bonus applies to both light and sidearm weapons). Recoil all the way, it shouldn't be anything else.
Commandos already have reload speed...don't understand why Caldari assault is also to reload.
I'd rather us not make Caldari Assaults with RR the next FOTM. Superior at range and in CQC, this is why we can never have a balanced game that people don't consider these things. |
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK
Intrepidus XI EoN.
184
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 21:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Reduced recoil would make the most sense, and it would definitely help the magsec out a bunch (since the bonus applies to both light and sidearm weapons). Recoil all the way, it shouldn't be anything else.
Commandos already have reload speed...don't understand why Caldari assault is also to reload. I'd rather us not make Caldari Assaults with RR the next FOTM. Superior at range and in CQC, this is why we can never have a balanced game that people don't consider these things.
There are still superior CQC guns over the rail rifle, and the amarr assault is far more likely to become to next FOTM if anything with that kind of EHP, scrambler rifle, and damage mod stacking. They'll see to it that caldari assaults burn lol.
Planetside 2
Eventually
Eh
|
JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
637
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 21:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Commandos should be the go-to for damage, Assaults should be the go to for improved weapon performance. With the coming HP improvements to assaults in Charlie we don't really need shield mod efficacy.... so that leaves us with RoF, Range, Kick or extended magazine size.
RoF - No, just no. This is flat out a DPS inflating number and it completely messes with balance. Amarr assault bonus doesn't affect dps (except on laser, where damage is backended), just number of shots down range, Gal assault bonus (which I quite like) improves theoretical dps at range but also allows you to do stuff like hipfire tac ars, min bonus once again only affects shots down range.
Range - This is also a bad option, as it throws away the range standardizations we just received. It would either need to be so small that it doesn't matter, or it's way too powerful of a bonus, even a 2% range bonus per level adds almost another 10m of base range to rail.
Extended magazines - This is okay, but I don't feel it would really have that much of an impact on the railrifle.
Kick - This is what I feel would be the best option, mitigating a lot of the jump that rail weapons have while aimed down sight and actually greatly improving their performance when doing stuff like hip-firing.
Spool-time - Honestly would probably have to small of an impact to matter unless the bonus was something insane.
Damage - Puts the cal assault in direct competition with cal commando for bonus value. Commandos should be the go to for damage and versatility, Assault should be the suit you choose when you go "I want this weapon to perform be the best it ever possibly could outside of damage". Shield regulator efficiency?
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Tectonic Fusion
1967
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Posted - 2014.08.12 21:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Reload speed in the case of Caldari Assault is just....lame. However it needs to follow the "Weapon Support" theme that the other 3 have, so increasing DPS or defenses isn't gonna fly. Couple thoughts to kick around
~Reduced Charge & Lock Time for Caldari Weapons ~Reduced Recoil for Caldari Weapons What Caldari weapon locks? Inb4 the swarm launcher, then why does my calmmando not get a bonus to swarms? Because it isn't hybrid rail? Well why don't minmmandos get bonus to remote explosives and grenades if it's solely based on damage type? ****'s ********. Charge make a .2 second charge a .18 charge. It's useless, and reducing recoil on rail rifles would break them and make them OP. There isn't anything that can really be done with rail tech that won't break the weapons. They just need to stop it with these weapon specific buffs to assaults. That's why they gave us reload, because even though that's also pretty garbage nothing can be done nominally to rail weapons that won't make them OP. You reduce the kick and it will melt targets it has nearly twice the damage of the combat rifle with far more range. Its real disadvantage at the moment is that the kick + spool up makes hipfire luck based. If you reduce the kick it will become absurd and lead to a nerf in delta that was wasted time they could of spent on other things. The stubbornness of using disproportionate suits and bonuses will just keep perpetuating the buff/ner cycles. The Amarr Assault's bonus and the Minmatar Assault's bonus eliminate their weakness's, so why not the caldari assault? Or the Gal assault...
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
354
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Posted - 2014.08.12 21:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Reduced recoil would make the most sense, and it would definitely help the magsec out a bunch (since the bonus applies to both light and sidearm weapons). Recoil all the way, it shouldn't be anything else.
Commandos already have reload speed...don't understand why Caldari assault is also to reload. I'd rather us not make Caldari Assaults with RR the next FOTM. Superior at range and in CQC, this is why we can never have a balanced game that people don't consider these things. There are still superior CQC guns over the rail rifle, and the amarr assault is far more likely to become to next FOTM if anything with that kind of EHP, scrambler rifle, and damage mod stacking. They'll see to it that caldari assaults burn lol.
Well yeah just like the shotgun is better in CQC then the assault rifle or the mass driver has better AOE then a combat rifle.... but last I checked when a gun is too good its based on how well it performs in various situations and not that it performs the best in all situations. There are better CQC guns over the rail rifle even if it had less kick, but how many of those weapons have the rail rifles range? Last I checked rifle wise, the sniper rifle which has no reticle at the hip and cerebral palsy when quick scoped. The laser rifle is pretty much the worst gun in CQC. You reduce the recoil and the rail rifle will be pretty amazing in CQC (right now the spread makes it luck based as to whether or not the AR or CR will kill you in close range assuming you both can keep the reticle on one another.) Then compound that with the fact that the Rail Rifle will be amazing in long range engagements and you have the making of an OP combination.
Like I said, the failure of CCP to recognize these facts or give in to absurd demands from the community is what keeps us constantly in nerf/buff cycles. |
Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
48
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Posted - 2014.08.12 21:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
^doesn't fit with improved weapon performance. I'd rather have defensive modules stand on their own, rather than have the underwhelming modules propped up by bonuses, that said I think 2 regs drop shield recharge numbers to really acceptable numbers. Kick reduction is probably the best possible bonus for Cal assault as it affects their weapons more or less evenly, and it even has some positive benefits to the sniper rifle. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2784
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 21:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Reload speed in the case of Caldari Assault is just....lame. However it needs to follow the "Weapon Support" theme that the other 3 have, so increasing DPS or defenses isn't gonna fly. Couple thoughts to kick around
~Reduced Charge & Lock Time for Caldari Weapons ~Reduced Recoil for Caldari Weapons What Caldari weapon locks? Inb4 the swarm launcher, then why does my calmmando not get a bonus to swarms? Because it isn't hybrid rail? Well why don't minmmandos get bonus to remote explosives and grenades if it's solely based on damage type? ****'s ********. Charge make a .2 second charge a .18 charge. It's useless, and reducing recoil on rail rifles would break them and make them OP. There isn't anything that can really be done with rail tech that won't break the weapons. They just need to stop it with these weapon specific buffs to assaults. That's why they gave us reload, because even though that's also pretty garbage nothing can be done nominally to rail weapons that won't make them OP. You reduce the kick and it will melt targets it has nearly twice the damage of the combat rifle with far more range. Its real disadvantage at the moment is that the kick + spool up makes hipfire luck based. If you reduce the kick it will become absurd and lead to a nerf in delta that was wasted time they could of spent on other things. The stubbornness of using disproportionate suits and bonuses will just keep perpetuating the buff/ner cycles.
Such rage lol.
And weapon skills should be tied to the race of the weapon, not the damage profile. I've said that many times before.
Charge does make a rather large impact on Charge snipers, and it does help the rail weapons, but it is as you said, not ideal. And I do firmly believe that some suit should get a bonus to swarm lock, and another to swarm damage, and they should both be Caldari Suits. Calmmando should get the damage, and the CalAssault the lock speed.
As for recoil, I think it's an obvious choice. If the general consensus is that the Rail Rifle is OP without a recoil reduction, then perhaps rebalance of the RR is in order. But again, that bonus makes sense, as it is a weakness of weapon type, just as the other Assault bonuses help to counter the weakness of their weapons.
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