DUST Search - CPM input request: Logistics & Support.

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Meee One wrote:

Pseudogenesis wrote:

Oh dear, I'm sorry I stumbled on your private thread and started ruining your discussion by talking about balance. I suppose it would be best to never interact with the logistics community then, as you are clearly the only one capable of understanding the deep, intricate balance problems at the heart of Dust. I guess the idea that logistics should be buffed is a terrible one when it's coming from somebody who doesn't play logi 24/7.

Balance is not a one way road. It's not some thread where you try to whisper into the ears of the CPM and shun anybody who isn't part of your sekret klub. It affects everyone, so I suggest you get used to the idea of criticizing an argument based on its merits, instead of shooting it down because you don't like who's saying it.

>The barber shop.

Hypocrite. Ugh

What of it? The Barbershop has a couple crazies like any sub-community, but it also has an excellent track record for generating and vetting solid, well-balanced ideas. Those who think the thread is about "Scout Superiority" aren't paying close enough attention; the majority of Scout nerfs implemented between 1.8 and present originated in the Barbershop.


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Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1902	Posted - 2015.02.28 06:51:00 - [1] - Quote Nah, the last thing we need is another overhaul. We're very close to balance as is, no need for radical changes which could take months and many iterations to fix. I'm dubious as to whether or not logis actually need to be looked at much, but I don't play logi too much so I guess I'm willing to take the word of more experienced players. If I were to make changes it would be to a) reduce the cost of equipment across the board and b) tiericide logi dropsuit equipment slots so STD suits could fit as much equipment as PRO suits can. Does that sound reasonable? Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1909	Posted - 2015.03.01 02:19:00 - [2] - Quote Oh dear, I'm sorry I stumbled on your private thread and started ruining your discussion by talking about balance. I suppose it would be best to never interact with the logistics community then, as you are clearly the only one capable of understanding the deep, intricate balance problems at the heart of Dust. I guess the idea that logistics should be buffed is a terrible one when it's coming from somebody who doesn't play logi 24/7. Balance is not a one way road. It's not some thread where you try to whisper into the ears of the CPM and shun anybody who isn't part of your sekret klub. It affects everyone, so I suggest you get used to the idea of criticizing an argument based on its merits, instead of shooting it down because you don't like who's saying it. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1909	Posted - 2015.03.01 04:37:00 - [3] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Meee One wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Oh dear, I'm sorry I stumbled on your private thread and started ruining your discussion by talking about balance. I suppose it would be best to never interact with the logistics community then, as you are clearly the only one capable of understanding the deep, intricate balance problems at the heart of Dust. I guess the idea that logistics should be buffed is a terrible one when it's coming from somebody who doesn't play logi 24/7. Balance is not a one way road. It's not some thread where you try to whisper into the ears of the CPM and shun anybody who isn't part of your sekret klub. It affects everyone, so I suggest you get used to the idea of criticizing an argument based on its merits, instead of shooting it down because you don't like who's saying it. >The barber shop. Hypocrite. What of it? The Barbershop has a couple crazies like any sub-community, but it also has an excellent track record for generating and vetting solid, well-balanced ideas. Those who think the thread is about "Scout Superiority" aren't paying close enough attention; the majority of Scout nerfs implemented between 1.8 and present originated in the Barbershop. What he said. We get plenty of visitors and don't vie for any kind of special developer attention. Hell, even our corp is accepting open applications. You're welcome to stop by anytime you like to discuss or shoot the shit with us. That's about as open as it gets. At the end of the day, this is a community for a video game. We're all here to have fun and socialize. There's no reason to act all exclusionary and hostile over something as harmless as that. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1942	Posted - 2015.03.02 03:01:00 - [4] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: And at the end of the day this thread is NOT a GD-moved-to-the-LR thread for peenstroking and bs'ing, this thread is for CPM input on Logistics and Support play. The playground and all things acceptable in it is found elsewhere Which is funny, because all I've seen from Adipem is attempts at suggestions and discussion, and all I've seen from you is off-topic, paranoid, jingoistic tinfoil hattery. If you really wanted discussion, you would discuss. Which brings us to... el OPERATOR wrote: D- AND last but not least this. Since you guys (BShop scouts) have yet to propose anything that isn't a buff to yourselves this one-áI have trouble seeing any differently. If Logis have their full equipment carryload available at STD then basis is there to allow Scouts their full equipment carryload at STD too, the merit of which (scouts being 1 equip until PRO where they'll be 2) has been broached as a balancing idea elsewhere. I'm inclined to argue for removal of that second equipment slot from scouts altogether and its reassignment elsewhere (Mandos?) again, since you buncha potsies won't stfu in here and have made it clear that you no longer are playing in support capacities, and don't want to. points to current scout overhaul proposal in the BS hop trying to cement scouts as undetectable under all conditions assassins There is so little discussion here. Do you not actually want your suits to be good at STD? Do you not want to make more money? Because I'm getting mixed signals. I cannot even imagine the level of paranoia required to convince yourself that a person suggesting buffs to your preferred role is secretly trying to buff themselves, but I'll humor you for a moment. Note that this is more wasted time discussing things other than actual balance because you can't handle people you don't care for trying to talk to you. I don't give a single solitary fuck how much ISK I make. If I did, I wouldn't run squishy nova knife fits or melee fits or plasma cannon fits, I would spam ambush or domination in some tryhard corp with an Ak.0 and scrambler rifle. But I don't, because I don't care about ISK. What I do care about is getting this game balanced. If me quitting the game permanently were to guarantee that Dust would become perfectly balanced I would do it right now, on the spot. I don't give a damn how bad the minmatar scout is, I will run it anyway, as I have since Uprising, when it was terrible. I am not lobbying for any favors. All I want is this game to be as balanced as possible, as fast as possible, so that the development team can move on to more important things. And the biggest obstacle I see to the discussion of balance in this thread is you. Finally - and I should not have to actually tell you this - Adipem doesn't represent the views of all scouts, the barbershop, or anyone but himself. Nobody does. In fact, if you look closely, I have actively disagreed with every suggestion he has recently posted in this thread. I have also disagreed based on the merits of his proposals, and not, as you have done, on the basis of character or some other fearful nonsense. You talk so much about wanting to get back to discussion, so why don't you try discussing? Drop the cowardly fallacious rhetoric and address the proposals like an adult. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1947	Posted - 2015.03.02 04:11:00 - [5] - Quote Alright, I've gone ahead and hidden el operator's posts for now, since he doesn't seem interested in talking about logistics at all. Sorry for being melodramatic, I just want to actually talk about logis. So I've actually played a fair bit of logi (mostly during the days of chromosome) and I've been playing them a lot more recently but I'm still pretty foggy on what the actual balance issues are currently. Since they aren't combat suits their effectiveness has to be evaluated completely differently from how you would most other suits. I want to try and figure out exactly the issues are but I don't have time to read through all 72 pages of this thread so, again, sorry if you've heard all of this before. - A properly fitted logistics suit costs way more than a properly fitted combat suit - Logistics suits curve out poorly from STD to PRO because of the number of equipment slots - Logi bonuses are lackluster and too focused on individual equipment - Most support equipment has been nerfed without compensation to the logi suits themselves - Logistics is harder to get into than other roles because of the sheer SP investment required - Nanite injectors are much less useful than they used to be What am I missing? For perspective, the logi stuff I have access to and use is an ADV minlogi with proto repper, advanced nanohive, advanced drop uplinks, and advanced nanite injector. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1947	Posted - 2015.03.02 04:57:00 - [6] - Quote This is true. I neglected to mention suit stats themselves because I don't think I'm qualified to comment on them. Logis in my experience have been squishy, but I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. Their low eHP needs to be a balance factor when you're talking about the logi-heavy combo, but I don't think it needs to be as low as it is currently. They could probably use an increase to base eHP. What do you think about the suggestion that logis get increased stamina and speed in place of HP? Or maybe alongside a minor HP buff. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1949	Posted - 2015.03.02 05:53:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah, that seems like one of the easiest and most effective fixes. I still think all dropsuits' slots should be tiericided altogether but that's neither here nor there. One of the things I'd like to see for logistics is a more continuous reward for repping instead of the discrete system we have now. What I mean by that is instead of awarding 25 WP for every 150 armor (or however much) repped, award 5 WP for every 30, so it ends up being the same amount awarded. At least then there's more incentive to rep the smaller and more shield based frames. It's just kind of stupid when you rep some shield suit for like half of their armor and still don't get any WP out of it. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 1949	Posted - 2015.03.02 07:12:00 - [8] - Quote Will do. I had assumed the OP was out of date but this looks good. Re: Nanite injectors, has there been any thought given to making them like the BF3 revive system? As in player hits you with the revive tool and then you've given the option to respawn? At least then you don't have to rely on people asking for pickups to use your injector. I know Rattati's got a soft spot for the battlefield series too. Pokey Dravon wrote: So make the reward system more granular? I can get behind that as long as it doesn't cause performance issues. Yeah, exactly. I hadn't given thought to the possibility of performance issues but it doesn't seem to be a problem, since they introduced the point defense bonus and reintroduced the squad bonus there don't seem to have been any issues. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.