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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12699
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Posted - 2014.08.07 23:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bone Scratcher wrote:I was under the impression that ADS prices were coming down, but don't see it in the patch notes. Was that idea cut off? There was at least a 500 shield buff to the Python, but I had hoped that the price of an ADS would be around 175K, considering how a tank is about 50K... 
And equivalent tier HAV does not exist, the closest thing we have however is worth 200K ISK don't even attempt to pretend an MLT HAV is equal in power and value to an ADS.
You now effectively have skytanks...... I'm even considering skilling them now they are so cheap and going to be very difficult to take down.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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12699
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Posted - 2014.08.07 23:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bone Scratcher wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Bone Scratcher wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Bone Scratcher wrote:I was under the impression that ADS prices were coming down, but don't see it in the patch notes. Was that idea cut off? There was at least a 500 shield buff to the Python, but I had hoped that the price of an ADS would be around 175K, considering how a tank is about 50K... If my tank actually got bonuses per level, I'd be fine with a higher price tag. 50K is ridiculous. I'd also like to point out that the militias are EVEN CHEAPER. If you can lose 4 tanks a match and still make profit, something's wrong. Well I can assure you the tanks I fit and use cost quite a bit more than 50k. Large Turrets are actually quite expensive. Militia turrets seem to be effective, too. A militia swarm SHOULD be able to take out a militia tank, but thanks to CCP's reasoning, even prof V protos have issues taking them down. Well played. If an ADS goes down, you're losing money for this match PLUS the next match. And that's if you get 200K per match. If you don't, you're bleeding money for even longer. Tanks are underpriced and everyone knows it. 
My HAV costs about 581 K ISK its roughly the same price as your ADS all said and done.
Still as Mr Dravon said if I got bonuses per level of HAV operation then I would be fine with HAV hulls costing upwards of 775,000 ISK.
We used to have those but they were removed.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12699
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Posted - 2014.08.07 23:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bone Scratcher wrote:True Adamance wrote:Bone Scratcher wrote:I was under the impression that ADS prices were coming down, but don't see it in the patch notes. Was that idea cut off? There was at least a 500 shield buff to the Python, but I had hoped that the price of an ADS would be around 175K, considering how a tank is about 50K... And equivalent tier HAV does not exist, the closest thing we have however is worth 200K ISK don't even attempt to pretend an MLT HAV is equal in power and value to an ADS. You now effectively have skytanks...... I'm even considering skilling them now they are so cheap and going to be very difficult to take down. We have SMALL TURRETS. Plus, they're not, "cheap". My best ADS is 600K. Actually, you're right. a Militia tank isn't equal to an ADS. It's better. Twenty militia tanks are the same price as one ADS. Militia tanks get a large turret slot, plus more HP. 
Why are you comparing an Advanced or T2 Dropship to a Militia Tank. Currently HAV do not have anything on par with ADS.
As I have said I am fine with HAV costing in excess of 1 Million ISK....they used to anyway.... it would give me more of a reason to skill in HAV past Lvl1 HAV Command.
My point is ADS are now "sky tanks" are a reality
E.G-
4000EHP + 900 ..... 40 second cool down window, 224 reps per second after a 4 second delay, and a 10-20 second AB cooldown...... 500 Damage per missile on the python with increased RoF.
ADS are already dangerous. Post Charlie they border over powered.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12700
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Posted - 2014.08.08 01:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Just for everyone's information, my tanks cost as much as my ADSs (about 500k).
Actual tanks, not these crap fit, wanna-be MLT fits that scrubs think are sooo powerful, can actually push a decent price tag (upwards of 400-500k easy).
I think its fair to say the anatomy of a well fit HAV is
200K ISK base for the Hull
281K ISK base for a prototype Turret
50-75K ISK for the turrets
35-85 K ISK for the modules
It roughly translates to exactly the same costs as an ADS.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12700
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Posted - 2014.08.08 01:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bone Scratcher wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Just for everyone's information, my tanks cost as much as my ADSs (about 500k).
Actual tanks, not these crap fit, wanna-be MLT fits that scrubs think are sooo powerful, can actually push a decent price tag (upwards of 400-500k easy). What game do you play? Because I play this game made by CCP called DUST 514, and militia tanks are 25K with a BUILT-IN MODULES. STD tanks can't be beaten by two proficiency V swarms, and with an ADV turret, costs about 225K.
Wait where are you finding 25K ISK HAV..... MLT HAV cost 70K and are unfitted to my knowledge.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12703
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Posted - 2014.08.08 01:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:To be fair, a PRO large turret is unnecessary, just like a PRO small turret. The difference in cost (I know for small turrets its roughly a 4x increase: large turrets are pretty similar) is not worthwhile for a public battle when the efficacy difference is so small (AT-1 to XT-1 is a roughly 30 damage increase.)
The biggest reason ADSs are so ridiculously expensive is that the hull alone is 322k ISK. Sure, they're benefitting from a skill... But that should not mean that ISK negative should be the default position if you lose a single one. Heaven forfend you try to actually help your team/squad and not just bail after the first AV hit (like many whiners complain about) and thus actually risk your vehicle.
Personally I think a drop to around 200-250k ISK is not unreasonable. Still very expensive but would not be unrecoverable if you lose one.
Indeed but you must consider that you are helping your team every second that AV is not on you, and when you don't get AV on you, much like in a tank you become uncontestable.
I see why ADS do it, they are not designed to tank damage, nor should they be, they have mobility and fire power, at the cost of Tank and I understand preservation. The key to being a marauder is to know when to agress and when to pull back and wait out the fire to frustrate your enemy.
But when you add this 500 to the shield of a DS you then get an ADS with 3055 Shields that being 284 less than a Shield tank with a basic extender......and against most AV those Tanks will just .......take everything AV you have and ignore it.
Not that I dont appreciate the skill of ADS pilots, but I think they are currently as effective as they need to be.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12703
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Posted - 2014.08.08 02:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:True Adamance wrote:But when you add this 500 to the shield of a DS you then get an ADS with 3055 Shields that being 284 less than a Shield tank with a basic extender......and against most AV those Tanks will just .......take everything AV you have and ignore it.
Not that I dont appreciate the skill of ADS pilots, but I think they are currently as effective as they need to be. Indeed I think the swarm change is good (less skilled Swarmers will have good reason to use them now) but the python shield buff was unnecessary. I feel that taking a good hard look at collision damage would!d have been much, much more worthwhile. Quick bit about your numbers though: Pythons start at 1500 and this will put them up to 2000 base with a smaller slot layout than a Gunnlogi. The gap has closed but by less than your think, a Gunny will still have much more resilience than the toughest Python. And honestly, shouldn't air power be the terror of HAVs? Air superiority has been incredibly important since we started using aerial combatants, that shouldn't really be any different. A good HAV pilot with a half awake top (rail) gunner can seriously hurt a harassing ADS. Now we just need to get the profile fixed (-10/+10) and all ADSs would have to be very cautious (oh, and fix the damn pilot stacking bull crap.)
Air power is already the bane of HAV. There is almost no way to counteract in in an HAV.
You either have to be really lucky and Alpha down it before it gets away
Or run to the redline
It's that or your die, and even option two doesnt often works since ADS can run the redline so well.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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