DUST Search - Need help with profile dampening maths.

Jebus McKing wrote:

Ok, let's see.

When do you want to use dampeners? You'd want to use dampeners to stay off of people's radars. In order to do so you'd probably want to stay away from other teammates who don't have dampeners and would give away your position.
In short, you'd want to use dampeners to flank/lonewolf, right?

Now if you use 2x dampeners on your medium suit and try to flank a squad, that don't have a scout with them, they can't see you and you can't see them, and so you have wasted two slots for dampeners.

If you try to flank a squad, that has a Amarr scout with them, the entire squad can see you and you still can't see them, and so you have wasted two slots for dampeners.

Reducing a Amarr scout's tank ability by making him use precision enhancers instead of 2x extenders won't help you at all if he and his entire squad can see you coming from at least 30m (expect more) away, IMO.

If you use 2x dampeners on your medium suit, you can't even beat a Amarr scout with just one precision enhancer.

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Boot Booter Murphys-Law 835	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:15:00 - [1] - Quote So I've been looking at scan profile numbers... Here my math 50 (base scan profile) * 0.9 = 45 One complex dampener - 450.75 = 33.75 Second comp damp - 33.75 0.75 = 25.31 However protofits says 26.42 with 2 Dampeners, not the 25.31 which I calculated. What's wrong? Are there stacking penalties? Also, do you round these numbers for actual game play? What happens when scan precision equals scan profile; Does profile win out? Thanks. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Mr Hakyou 97	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:16:00 - [2] - Quote There are stacking penalties. Hotfix Charlie
Boot Booter Murphys-Law 835	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:17:00 - [3] - Quote Aha thanks. What about rounding and tie breakers? What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Mr Hakyou 97	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:22:00 - [4] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Aha thanks. What about rounding and tie breakers? I don't think any numbers round, and I think if you have, for example, at 20 profile and someone with a 20 passive precision is trying to see you I think you will be hidden. Hotfix Charlie
Arcturis Vanguard Murphys-Law 231	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:22:00 - [5] - Quote Everything rounds up and profile wins over scan, at least this is what I remember reading from the rattati. Someone please correct me if I am wrong Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 190	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:23:00 - [6] - Quote I think i read on one of those Precision vs Profile spreadsheets that if equal precision beats profile. Opus Arcana \| TBD Ringleader \| Yep Squad Spokesman
Boot Booter Murphys-Law 836	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:37:00 - [7] - Quote Any more thoughts on precision vs profile? You guys pretty much said all different things Lol. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Arcturis Vanguard Murphys-Law 232	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:42:00 - [8] - Quote Someone link us the correct Intel or blue tag verify for us retards on your game mechanics, Thanks Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15640	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:47:00 - [9] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: Everything rounds up and profile wins over scan, at least this is what I remember reading from the rattati. Someone please correct me if I am wrong AFAIK you are correct in saying everything rounds up, but scan wins over profile. If there's a tie between the scanner and the profile, the target is scanned. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Kyr Kitar Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 32	Posted - 2014.08.07 19:50:00 - [10] - Quote There are stacking penalties? I don't remember reading about it on the description of the module itself. Hrm..

Boot Booter Murphys-Law 837	Posted - 2014.08.07 20:24:00 - [11] - Quote Dam so even with 2 complex profile damp on my assault I can be scanned by an amarr scout with base precision. Guess iI'll just brick tank instead What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3673	Posted - 2014.08.07 20:28:00 - [12] - Quote * Stacking penalties apply to all ewar modules * Scan Profile and Precision values are rounded to the nearest whole number * A tie between Profile and Precision will favor the hunter (not the hunted) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2817	Posted - 2014.08.07 21:05:00 - [13] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Dam so even with 2 complex profile damp on my assault I can be scanned by an amarr scout with base precision. Guess iI'll just brick tank instead Stick with your racial tank to win. That's what I do.
Kyr Kitar Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 32	Posted - 2014.08.07 21:13:00 - [14] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: * Stacking penalties apply to all ewar modules This is why DUST is such a hard game for new players. Where, ingame, is this information found? 1) The module itself in my fitting doesn't mention anything about stacking penalties. 2) The module in the market has a lot of info but stacking penalties is not one of them. 3) The skill purchased in the skillbook does not mention stacking penalties. Now, damage modifiers has a distinct warning in it's information hub regarding stacking penalties. This means one of two things. Either you are wrong and stacking penalties do not apply, or CCP has not done a proper job giving background information through the game itself, on items in the game itself. Sorry for not believeing you right away, I learned a long time ago not everyone on the internet knows what they are talking about even if it does seem correct/sincere. But quite possibly you are right..
Arcturis Vanguard Murphys-Law 232	Posted - 2014.08.07 21:22:00 - [15] - Quote Kyr Kitar wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: * Stacking penalties apply to all ewar modules This is why DUST is such a hard game for new players. Where, ingame, is this information found? 1) The module itself in my fitting doesn't mention anything about stacking penalties. 2) The module in the market has a lot of info but stacking penalties is not one of them. 3) The skill purchased in the skillbook does not mention stacking penalties. Now, damage modifiers has a distinct warning in it's information hub regarding stacking penalties. This means one of two things. Either you are wrong and stacking penalties do not apply, or CCP has not done a proper job giving background information through the game itself, on items in the game itself. Sorry for not believeing you right away, I learned a long time ago not everyone on the internet knows what they are talking about even if it does seem correct/sincere. But quite possibly you are right.. He is correct that there are stacking penalties. Ccp has dome a poor job of informing the public on what has stacking penalties and adjusting stats in the fitting screen when modules are added to the suit. You are correct that you cannot trust everything on the internet, but in this case the Intel is indeed correct. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1806	Posted - 2014.08.07 21:58:00 - [16] - Quote Kyr Kitar wrote: There are stacking penalties? I don't remember reading about it on the description of the module itself. Hrm.. I think as a rule of thumb, (usually) everything that give a percent bonus incurs a stacking penalty (unless its a negative effect like armor plate speed penalty). Skills do not count toward nor are effected by the penalty.
Boot Booter Murphys-Law 838	Posted - 2014.08.07 22:09:00 - [17] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Dam so even with 2 complex profile damp on my assault I can be scanned by an amarr scout with base precision. Guess iI'll just brick tank instead Stick with your racial tank to win. That's what I do. You want me to fill all four lows of my min assault with regulators I'll probably run at least 2 armor related modules unless I find dampening to be effective. Which... It looks like it won't be. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 535	Posted - 2014.08.07 22:22:00 - [18] - Quote It is simple. If you are not in a scout suit, don't bother using dampeners. And even if you are you still have to beat the ~17db scan precision of Amarr scouts we will be seeing everywhere real soon. You will need every bit of HP when those Amarr scouts and their heavy brothers come looking for you, and you can't hide. OP is a kitten. @JebusMcKing
Boot Booter Murphys-Law 838	Posted - 2014.08.08 00:54:00 - [19] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: It is simple. If you are not in a scout suit, don't bother using dampeners. And even if you are you still have to beat the ~17db scan precision of Amarr scouts we will be seeing everywhere real soon. You will need every bit of HP when those Amarr scouts and their heavy brothers come looking for you, and you can't hide. That's what everyone wants you to think. If I force scouts to use precision enhacers to see me I am inherently reducing their tank ability while not hurting my main tank, shields. This also helps because as a minmatar I deal more damage to armor, so the less shields an enemy has the better. For example cal and minmatar scouts will have to use 2 precision enhancers to see me if I have 2 Dampeners on. I'm just on a entirely higher level than most assaults who need huge ehp to get the job done. To anyone who reads this, you're welcome. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 535	Posted - 2014.08.08 07:49:00 - [20] - Quote Ok, let's see. When do you want to use dampeners? You'd want to use dampeners to stay off of people's radars. In order to do so you'd probably want to stay away from other teammates who don't have dampeners and would give away your position. In short, you'd want to use dampeners to flank/lonewolf, right? Now if you use 2x dampeners on your medium suit and try to flank a squad, that don't have a scout with them, they can't see you and you can't see them, and so you have wasted two slots for dampeners. If you try to flank a squad, that has a Amarr scout with them, the entire squad can see you and you still can't see them, and so you have wasted two slots for dampeners. Reducing a Amarr scout's tank ability by making him use precision enhancers instead of 2x extenders won't help you at all if he and his entire squad can see you coming from at least 30m (expect more) away, IMO. If you use 2x dampeners on your medium suit, you can't even beat a Amarr scout with just one precision enhancer. OP is a kitten. @JebusMcKing

Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 210	Posted - 2014.08.08 08:08:00 - [21] - Quote It depends how popular Caldari scouts will be. Unless they fully dampen they will have huge scan ranges. It would be worth dampening to avoid these scans as they won't have a precision bonus. Also, I like to think kinetic catalysers would work on min assaults. Along with regulators and maybe some armour repair.
Boot Booter Murphys-Law 838	Posted - 2014.08.08 08:09:00 - [22] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Ok, let's see. When do you want to use dampeners? You'd want to use dampeners to stay off of people's radars. In order to do so you'd probably want to stay away from other teammates who don't have dampeners and would give away your position. In short, you'd want to use dampeners to flank/lonewolf, right? Now if you use 2x dampeners on your medium suit and try to flank a squad, that don't have a scout with them, they can't see you and you can't see them, and so you have wasted two slots for dampeners. If you try to flank a squad, that has a Amarr scout with them, the entire squad can see you and you still can't see them, and so you have wasted two slots for dampeners. Reducing a Amarr scout's tank ability by making him use precision enhancers instead of 2x extenders won't help you at all if he and his entire squad can see you coming from at least 30m (expect more) away, IMO. If you use 2x dampeners on your medium suit, you can't even beat a Amarr scout with just one precision enhancer. Ok lets see. You assume there are only 2 squad types and that they have everyone in the squad alive. There will still be other scouts and plenty of mixed and matched squads... Secondly, your whole viewpoint on damps is based off being a scout. Sometimes is good to be damped next to teammates. You see only one red dot on your map and you round the corner to find two red dots = you dead. 2 damps would force cal and min scouts to equip 2 precision and gal and amarr to fit 1. Not very effective against amarr or gal i agree but my weapon tears them up so w/e. For cal and min scouts however that equates to 144 hp which is huge for a scout and also a plus again for my weapon. Tie this with damage mods and a high shield HP... ... its called synergy bro. But whatever you dont have to damp your assault... What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 294	Posted - 2014.08.08 08:10:00 - [23] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: So I've been looking at scan profile numbers... Here my math 50 (base scan profile) * 0.9 = 45 One complex dampener - 450.75 = 33.75 Second comp damp - 33.75 0.75 = 25.31 However protofits says 26.42 with 2 Dampeners, not the 25.31 which I calculated. What's wrong? Are there stacking penalties? Also, do you round these numbers for actual game play? What happens when scan precision equals scan profile; Does profile win out? Thanks. Try out this site Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 535	Posted - 2014.08.08 09:08:00 - [24] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Ok lets see. You assume there are only 2 squad types and that they have everyone in the squad alive. There will still be other scouts and plenty of mixed and matched squads... Secondly, your whole viewpoint on damps is based off being a scout. Sometimes is good to be damped next to teammates. You see only one red dot on your map and you round the corner to find two red dots = you dead. 2 damps would force cal and min scouts to equip 2 precision and gal and amarr to fit 1. Not very effective against amarr or gal i agree but my weapon tears them up so w/e. For cal and min scouts however that equates to 144 hp which is huge for a scout and also a plus again for my weapon. Tie this with damage mods and a high shield HP... ... its called synergy bro. But whatever you dont have to damp your assault... So you will be using two slots for dampeners and the only matchup where this gives you at least some form of an advantage is in those odd cases where a Cal or Min scout uses two precision enhancers (post Charlie). Because in every other matchup you are either scanned down you and your enemy can't see eachother (but you have an HP disadvantage) you are overwhelming your enemy by numbers anyway Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see dampened medium suits become viable because I really dislike the current EWAR system. But the sad truth is, at the moment, they are not and/or there are better uses for those low slots than dampeners. Just compare the times when 2x dampeners are more useful to a medium suit then basically any other low slot module. Why bet on having an advantage against such a specific matchup when you could i.e. reduce your shield recharge delay to 2.5 sec., or get more armor/rep-rate, or sprint faster/longer, or even use range amplifiers so YOU are the one who can see those people, who don't use dampeners, from a longer distance? OP is a kitten. @JebusMcKing


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