DUST Search - Make repair tools use ammo

Cross Atu wrote:

Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

X7 lion wrote:

Quiet heathen you might wake the sleeping god logi.

Wah, who, hum *yawns* did someone... Twisted

...or were you talking about the blue one with Logi in his name Pirate

EDIT: In all seriousness, the whole equipment line needs so major love because as it stands right now the support role is not only failing to maintain cost viability via isk but is doing so while requiring a higher up front SP sink than any other role for equivalent meta deployed. Don't like that heavy having all those reps? Run a MD or core locus, support logi frames are exceedingly squishy.

All of that being said, if we wanted to implement true logi reps in the EVE style including Cap/overheat type limitations then I'd be all for it. Just remember, in space "primary the logi" isn't a useful tactic, it's essentially a requirement, because the rep to dps ratio makes even the proto reps on a min logi suit here look like baby town frolics. Blink

Except space side, your logi will be cap stable either solo (in the case of the Scimi or Onieros) or when cap chaining with one or more partners (for the Gaurdian and Basi)...making the point kind of moot as they essentially do the same thing our suits do, but with such ridiculous eHP/s healed that it's more worth it just to a assemble enough alpha to destroy the actual DPS ships than to take out the logi (although in small gangs it involves neutralizing enemy logi with EWAR and Capwar...)

In many ways this is exactly my point, there are so many nerf cries about support play in Dust, while when it is compared to other games with meaningful 'non-slayer' roles (such as reps, eWar, etc) the current state of support in Dust is pretty laughable. Even without comparing it to any other game the current state of support play in Dust is painful because of the higher burden of front end SP investment and the higher than average cost in the risk vs reward paradigm (when contrasted with other classes/fits like the Assault or Heavy). Then to top it off there are quite a few caps - which lack any meaningful UI feedback - effecting earnings and the WP scaling internal to the EQ line has been flawed since closed beta and all on a suit that when run for its intended support role is the lease survivable in the game (yes light suits have lower HP pools, but they have better eWar and mobility).

I could go on, there's a lot more to point out, but simply put support play is already contextually in a very poor state, nerfing it even more is functionally akin to saying 'hey, why don't we just take it out of the game' and at this stage of development it is my firm oppinnion that the last thing Dust needs is to start cutting out even more content (personally I'd rather see it go the other direction and get more content into the game).

0.02 ISK
Cross

PS ~ Thaddeus this isn't directed specifically at you, it's for the thread generally, your quote simply serves to illustrate some of what I'm saying so I've included it. o7

Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.


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Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 59	Posted - 2014.08.06 14:09:00 - [1] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: X7 lion wrote: Quiet heathen you might wake the sleeping god logi. Wah, who, hum yawns did someone... ...or were you talking about the blue one with Logi in his name EDIT: In all seriousness, the whole equipment line needs so major love because as it stands right now the support role is not only failing to maintain cost viability via isk but is doing so while requiring a higher up front SP sink than any other role for equivalent meta deployed. Don't like that heavy having all those reps? Run a MD or core locus, support logi frames are exceedingly squishy. All of that being said, if we wanted to implement true logi reps in the EVE style including Cap/overheat type limitations then I'd be all for it. Just remember, in space "primary the logi" isn't a useful tactic, it's essentially a requirement, because the rep to dps ratio makes even the proto reps on a min logi suit here look like baby town frolics. Except space side, your logi will be cap stable either solo (in the case of the Scimi or Onieros) or when cap chaining with one or more partners (for the Gaurdian and Basi)...making the point kind of moot as they essentially do the same thing our suits do, but with such ridiculous eHP/s healed that it's more worth it just to a assemble enough alpha to destroy the actual DPS ships than to take out the logi (although in small gangs it involves neutralizing enemy logi with EWAR and Capwar...) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 63	Posted - 2014.08.07 10:20:00 - [2] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Cross Atu wrote: X7 lion wrote: Quiet heathen you might wake the sleeping god logi. Wah, who, hum yawns did someone... ...or were you talking about the blue one with Logi in his name EDIT: In all seriousness, the whole equipment line needs so major love because as it stands right now the support role is not only failing to maintain cost viability via isk but is doing so while requiring a higher up front SP sink than any other role for equivalent meta deployed. Don't like that heavy having all those reps? Run a MD or core locus, support logi frames are exceedingly squishy. All of that being said, if we wanted to implement true logi reps in the EVE style including Cap/overheat type limitations then I'd be all for it. Just remember, in space "primary the logi" isn't a useful tactic, it's essentially a requirement, because the rep to dps ratio makes even the proto reps on a min logi suit here look like baby town frolics. Except space side, your logi will be cap stable either solo (in the case of the Scimi or Onieros) or when cap chaining with one or more partners (for the Gaurdian and Basi)...making the point kind of moot as they essentially do the same thing our suits do, but with such ridiculous eHP/s healed that it's more worth it just to a assemble enough alpha to destroy the actual DPS ships than to take out the logi (although in small gangs it involves neutralizing enemy logi with EWAR and Capwar...) In many ways this is exactly my point, there are so many nerf cries about support play in Dust, while when it is compared to other games with meaningful 'non-slayer' roles (such as reps, eWar, etc) the current state of support in Dust is pretty laughable. Even without comparing it to any other game the current state of support play in Dust is painful because of the higher burden of front end SP investment and the higher than average cost in the risk vs reward paradigm (when contrasted with other classes/fits like the Assault or Heavy). Then to top it off there are quite a few caps - which lack any meaningful UI feedback - effecting earnings and the WP scaling internal to the EQ line has been flawed since closed beta and all on a suit that when run for its intended support role is the lease survivable in the game (yes light suits have lower HP pools, but they have better eWar and mobility). I could go on, there's a lot more to point out, but simply put support play is already contextually in a very poor state, nerfing it even more is functionally akin to saying 'hey, why don't we just take it out of the game' and at this stage of development it is my firm oppinnion that the last thing Dust needs is to start cutting out even more content (personally I'd rather see it go the other direction and get more content into the game). 0.02 ISK Cross PS ~ Thaddeus this isn't directed specifically at you, it's for the thread generally, your quote simply serves to illustrate some of what I'm saying so I've included it. o7 I think we're both saying the same thing (although I didn't articulate it very well). It would be dangerous to buff logis without implementing their proper counters and systems (hopefully without becoming as huge of a force multiplier as they are space-side), and I agree that a nerf to them would be extremely detrimental to the game as a whole. (Especially since IWS said that we couldn't have WP scaling for higher tier nanite injectors). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.