DUST Search - Make repair tools use ammo

Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

X7 lion wrote:

Quiet heathen you might wake the sleeping god logi.

Wah, who, hum *yawns* did someone... Twisted

...or were you talking about the blue one with Logi in his name Pirate

EDIT: In all seriousness, the whole equipment line needs so major love because as it stands right now the support role is not only failing to maintain cost viability via isk but is doing so while requiring a higher up front SP sink than any other role for equivalent meta deployed. Don't like that heavy having all those reps? Run a MD or core locus, support logi frames are exceedingly squishy.

All of that being said, if we wanted to implement true logi reps in the EVE style including Cap/overheat type limitations then I'd be all for it. Just remember, in space "primary the logi" isn't a useful tactic, it's essentially a requirement, because the rep to dps ratio makes even the proto reps on a min logi suit here look like baby town frolics. Blink

Except space side, your logi will be cap stable either solo (in the case of the Scimi or Onieros) or when cap chaining with one or more partners (for the Gaurdian and Basi)...making the point kind of moot as they essentially do the same thing our suits do, but with such ridiculous eHP/s healed that it's more worth it just to a assemble enough alpha to destroy the actual DPS ships than to take out the logi (although in small gangs it involves neutralizing enemy logi with EWAR and Capwar...)


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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2634	Posted - 2014.08.06 06:56:00 - [1] - Quote X7 lion wrote: Quiet heathen you might wake the sleeping god logi. Wah, who, hum yawns did someone... ...or were you talking about the blue one with Logi in his name See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2635	Posted - 2014.08.06 17:32:00 - [2] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Cross Atu wrote: X7 lion wrote: Quiet heathen you might wake the sleeping god logi. Wah, who, hum yawns did someone... ...or were you talking about the blue one with Logi in his name EDIT: In all seriousness, the whole equipment line needs so major love because as it stands right now the support role is not only failing to maintain cost viability via isk but is doing so while requiring a higher up front SP sink than any other role for equivalent meta deployed. Don't like that heavy having all those reps? Run a MD or core locus, support logi frames are exceedingly squishy. All of that being said, if we wanted to implement true logi reps in the EVE style including Cap/overheat type limitations then I'd be all for it. Just remember, in space "primary the logi" isn't a useful tactic, it's essentially a requirement, because the rep to dps ratio makes even the proto reps on a min logi suit here look like baby town frolics. Except space side, your logi will be cap stable either solo (in the case of the Scimi or Onieros) or when cap chaining with one or more partners (for the Gaurdian and Basi)...making the point kind of moot as they essentially do the same thing our suits do, but with such ridiculous eHP/s healed that it's more worth it just to a assemble enough alpha to destroy the actual DPS ships than to take out the logi (although in small gangs it involves neutralizing enemy logi with EWAR and Capwar...) In many ways this is exactly my point, there are so many nerf cries about support play in Dust, while when it is compared to other games with meaningful 'non-slayer' roles (such as reps, eWar, etc) the current state of support in Dust is pretty laughable. Even without comparing it to any other game the current state of support play in Dust is painful because of the higher burden of front end SP investment and the higher than average cost in the risk vs reward paradigm (when contrasted with other classes/fits like the Assault or Heavy). Then to top it off there are quite a few caps - which lack any meaningful UI feedback - effecting earnings and the WP scaling internal to the EQ line has been flawed since closed beta and all on a suit that when run for its intended support role is the lease survivable in the game (yes light suits have lower HP pools, but they have better eWar and mobility). I could go on, there's a lot more to point out, but simply put support play is already contextually in a very poor state, nerfing it even more is functionally akin to saying 'hey, why don't we just take it out of the game' and at this stage of development it is my firm oppinnion that the last thing Dust needs is to start cutting out even more content (personally I'd rather see it go the other direction and get more content into the game). 0.02 ISK Cross PS ~ Thaddeus this isn't directed specifically at you, it's for the thread generally, your quote simply serves to illustrate some of what I'm saying so I've included it. o7 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2638	Posted - 2014.08.09 16:52:00 - [3] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Cross Atu wrote: X7 lion wrote: Quiet heathen you might wake the sleeping god logi. Wah, who, hum yawns did someone... ...or were you talking about the blue one with Logi in his name EDIT: In all seriousness, the whole equipment line needs so major love because as it stands right now the support role is not only failing to maintain cost viability via isk but is doing so while requiring a higher up front SP sink than any other role for equivalent meta deployed. Don't like that heavy having all those reps? Run a MD or core locus, support logi frames are exceedingly squishy. All of that being said, if we wanted to implement true logi reps in the EVE style including Cap/overheat type limitations then I'd be all for it. Just remember, in space "primary the logi" isn't a useful tactic, it's essentially a requirement, because the rep to dps ratio makes even the proto reps on a min logi suit here look like baby town frolics. A false statement. Scouts have the highest SP requirement. Most people don't understand this because they swapped suits from the 1.8 Dropsuit Command refund and already had their core skills and EQ skills when they did it. It's also false that support frames are squishy. My Logistics gk.0 has all proto EQ and over one-thousand total HP. My Logistics ck.0 has the least HP but still boasts around 700 total HP. Maybe you're just doing it wrong. Appia you're using a flawed context, the definitions employed for what is "required" to play support or "required" for an effective support fit are incorrect. You are by and large a slayer, and frankly a better one than I am, so you can get away with fits that others couldn't effectively employ and or with using fits in a more hybrid style. Even were that not the case there are quite a few possible scout builds that would fall into the support play role (scanning scouts and hacking scouts are examples of this) support is a role, not a specific dropsuit. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2638	Posted - 2014.08.09 16:55:00 - [4] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: (Especially since IWS said that we couldn't have WP scaling for higher tier nanite injectors). Yeah, sadly there's a tech side limit which prevents this See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2671	Posted - 2014.08.11 15:00:00 - [5] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: if a heavy is being repped, and you know you CANT kill him, then you cant shoot him either because youre just feeding wp to the logi repping him. when the heavy kills you, the logi gets wp for that too. If you can't kill the heavy then you're in the wrong range or using the wrong weapon for that job/situation. This is the way gear diversity works, not everything will be useful in every situation, if it were useful in all situations it would be brokenly OP and render all other gear superfluous. Also, there's a cooldown/cap on repair earnings as well as qualifiers regarding when/how they can even be earned it is not just a given that an active repair tool = WP gained. It is not even a given that having a repair tool on a friendly merc when they kill a hostile merc = WP gained. DeathwindRising wrote: shoot the logi - cant always do that if the logi is skilled because hes behind cover with an extra long rep tool, or the logi is being repped by another logi. and trying to finding the source of the logi chain usually gets you killed. You are now describing a situation where a single merc has the inability to safely kill 2, 3 or more opposing players who are not only actively playing in coordination with each other but also employing cover as well as proto gear. Is your contention that the SP value, team work, and tactical use of cover from multiple players should be factors that even when taken together a single opposing player can safely dismiss? DeathwindRising wrote: so 3 logis and 3 heavies in the same squad get constant wp as the take damage and kill people. thats not balanced. the rep tool needs to overheat to keep this from continuing. Again constant is mechanically not possible, even if one assumes that the opposing team is using poor enough coordination to simply zerg a single position entrenched by an entire squad whos members are deployed in fittings specifically designed for point defense and synergy. If I face that squad composition my squad flanks, or calls in vehicular support, or simply ignores the overly fortified position and hacks everything else on the map thus winning the match. In fact, especially if you have access to a speed hack fit, you can do that last one while running solo. If you have access to militia HAVs or can fly an ADS you can like-wise deal with that squad of six even while running solo. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)