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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
46
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Posted - 2014.08.04 22:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Recently, Space Side (EVE Online) one of the most beloved classes of ships got a complete revamp. The Freighters, massive space semi-trucks that hauled goods all over the cluster, but lacked even the most basic fitting options. This left freighter pilots a bit upset, given that since they where only their base stats (+ skill bonuses) there was no real way for them to improve their cargo capacity, other than to buy the Caldari freighter, no way to improve their agility, other than to buy the Minmatar freighter, no way to improve their tank...you get the picture...on top of that, since they where only base stats, gankers could easily plan just the right amount of gank to destroy them, without needing any intel (other than a directional scan from a few AUs away). CCP decided to give freighters fitting options, but nerffed them heavily in all areas base. It effectively made it to where, using pretty standard mods, a freighter could far surpass the old freighters in one area, while sacrificing another.
What's the point of this anecdote? Snipers currently (other than the zoom issue) have both parts of what they need, range and damage. I suggest nerfing the sniper rifle's range (maybe their damage), and introduce a new set of high-slot mods similar to the space side tracking computers. These mods would increase weapon optimal range and zoom fidelity. This way snipers have to choose between having a massive range (with a better zoom option), or better damage. Now, the other weapons would need significantly tweaked in order to make something like this work while maintaining balance, which is why I have no delusions of this coming in any of the hotfixes. I just wanted to share this in a poorly formatted forum thread to get the idea out there, and maybe get some more opinions on it.
TL;DR: Freighters in Eve where changed, Snipers can be changed similarly with the introduction of a new mod, other weapons would need to be tweaked too...would be for a future release or maybe legion, not a hotfix. |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
244
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 00:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Unfortunately this wouldn't work in dust at the moment.
The base stats for sniper rifles NOT including damage modifiers is nowhere near high enough to be used to kill any suit that has full health.
this means that stats going down to those who chose range will literally make them completely useless as a ranged weapon,
add to that the useless close range aspects of the sniper rifle this would completely break the weapon.
unless you intend to actually increase damage the closer they chose to play... in which case you would instantly remove all snipers and suddenly become inundated with marksmen rifles capable of instakill leading to quick scopers.
although it's nice to see some original thinking. |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
48
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Posted - 2014.08.05 00:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote:Unfortunately this wouldn't work in dust at the moment.
The base stats for sniper rifles NOT including damage modifiers is nowhere near high enough to be used to kill any suit that has full health.
this means that stats going down to those who chose range will literally make them completely useless as a ranged weapon,
add to that the useless close range aspects of the sniper rifle this would completely break the weapon.
unless you intend to actually increase damage the closer they chose to play... in which case you would instantly remove all snipers and suddenly become inundated with marksmen rifles capable of instakill leading to quick scopers.
although it's nice to see some original thinking.
The idea is a choice between damage mods and range mods. (They currently need a buff in damage of some sort, and with mods getting a buff it may just be enough already without needing to nerd their damage) also Hurray a reply! |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
251
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 21:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
 yes I understood the concept mate, it's a good idea if the sniper rifle was balanced at it's neutral point. I.e without damage mods or range enhancements it's a good weapon.
Unfortunately this is not the case which is why although you can find dedicated snipers you won't find em In p.c battles
Because at the moment you need a certain suit with a certain fit including damage mods to effective meaning you can't afford to sacrifice damage for range
And as they have low rof and have to ads to hit the side of mcc you can't afford to sacrifice range either. |
Galm Fae
Eskola Ergonomics
287
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Posted - 2014.08.05 22:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sniper here. I know a lot of people seem to think snipers need a buff but in honesty I think sniping has never been better. I struggled for a long time to find by nitch in this game, but I eventually found my place with the Caldari commando and ended up as a sniper today.
As I understand it, there are two current schools of though for snipers today; a cloaked scout acting as recon support, and the marksman.
The marksman is typically designed to yield the highest damage at the lowest risk to the player. As things stand, the only viable way of going ham on players from long range is to spec into the Caldari commando. Between the rail bonuses and large amounts of high slots, it can dish out massive damage while still having a set of 'extra' systems to defend itself when you get dug in. The only problem is that to sink into these system you have to spec Caldari.
In the future however CCP has already put forward plans to create race-symmetrical long-range options for all classes, making each frame viable so long as they can support the slots needed. The issue with this is that different races favor high slots to low, or low to high. For this reason, a Gallente sniper might not be able to carry as many damage mods as a Caldari.
Simple solution to this? Make a low powered mod that provides similar bonuses through different methods. In eve hybrid turrets are treated much in the same way, with different high and low mods to affect rate of fire, damage, and accuracy accordingly (a lot like OP mentioned.)
Be best way to do this in Dust in my opinion would be to keep damage-based mods as high-power components but to also offer low-powered modules like 'tracking computers' or gyroscopes that reduce weapon recoil. That way we would see appropriate trends where Caldari-based snipers fire slow, high powered rounds while Gallente can fire several less powerful shots in rapids succession. The Amarr and Minmatar will, as always, be somewhat of a mix one way or the other.
The best part about this is that it doesn't need to only apply to snipers. A low-powered recoil modifier could do wonders for other weapons systems like the assault rifle or scrambler pistol. The main reason I would recommend this over something like accuracy or zoom fidelity is because in the future different weapons my already have different scopes for different ranges (Minmatar rifles might have the range of a modern caldari, while caldari weapons may receive much greater zoom and Gallente rifles will get something closer to a 4x ACOG zoom) and once a scope is settled weapons already seem to have literally pinpoint accuracy.
Of course I know that further additions to 514 is set on the wayside for Legion, but I would still like to see this idea implemented at some point in the future.
Kirjuun! Uakan!
Teknikiara!
Kanpai kameitsamuu!
Ra ra ra!
> --Keepin' the peace!--
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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
251
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 23:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not bad at all, some good suggestions. I do disagree about us not needing a buff.
Headshots at maximum damage levels don't do anywhere near enough damage.
Snipers are a liability in pc battles because they can't do sufficient damage.
When you say they're ok your probably talking about a proto suit with a proto weapon with complex mods in a pub match. Or possibly the thales. That's not balanced other players can play effectively without going to an extreme fit out, allowing them to make pc suits. |
Galm Fae
Eskola Ergonomics
287
|
Posted - 2014.08.05 23:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote:Not bad at all, some good suggestions. I do disagree about us not needing a buff.
Headshots at maximum damage levels don't do anywhere near enough damage.
Snipers are a liability in pc battles because they can't do sufficient damage.
When you say they're ok your probably talking about a proto suit with a proto weapon with complex mods in a pub match. Or possibly the thales. That's not balanced other players can play effectively without going to an extreme fit out, allowing them to make pc suits.
That is a fair point. I'd agree with giving sniper rifles a massive critical bonus for headshots.
Kirjuun! Uakan!
Teknikiara!
Kanpai kameitsamuu!
Ra ra ra!
> --Keepin' the peace!--
|
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
50
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 05:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:Snake Sellors wrote:Not bad at all, some good suggestions. I do disagree about us not needing a buff.
Headshots at maximum damage levels don't do anywhere near enough damage.
Snipers are a liability in pc battles because they can't do sufficient damage.
When you say they're ok your probably talking about a proto suit with a proto weapon with complex mods in a pub match. Or possibly the thales. That's not balanced other players can play effectively without going to an extreme fit out, allowing them to make pc suits. That is a fair point. I'd agree with giving sniper rifles a massive critical bonus for headshots.
Yeah, headshot multiplier would probably do it...although some lower-tier snipers could do with a basic damage buff. |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
254
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 18:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
I agree the sniper rifles of lower tiers do need attention they are awful.
although i think it's probably a good idea to leave them out in order to keep the proto snipers down to just those who are really interested in sniping.
but in the interests of my point about p.c fits and the need to use proto suits at pub matches.
there would need to be buffs to the advanced level sniper rifles to make them usable in pub matches, i would also like to see an advanced level charge rifle. |
maeth-01 2501
CROMARTIE HIGH SCHOOL
49
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 21:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote:Not bad at all, some good suggestions. I do disagree about us not needing a buff.
Headshots at maximum damage levels don't do anywhere near enough damage.
Snipers are a liability in pc battles because they can't do sufficient damage.
When you say they're ok your probably talking about a proto suit with a proto weapon with complex mods in a pub match. Or possibly the thales. That's not balanced other players can play effectively without going to an extreme fit out, allowing them to make pc suits.
Agreed..... I can take out the basic Heavy and scout with some basic fitting and do very well..... take the sniper out and you struggle to kill things...... I have run a lot of fitting for the past 20 ish months and it's the sniper that needs looking in to...
Laugh, and the world laughs with you;Weep, and you weep alone
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