DUST Search - Plasma Rifle it's either perfectly balanced or other rifles need...

Sgt Kirk wrote:

While the recent buff to plasma Rifles was needed something still feels off about the Plasma Rifle, especially when comparing it against the other rifles and especially since you do not want to use that rifle in PC matches.

What's the problem with it though? I feel that it wrecks shields and is heavily slowed down when you get into armor, which is the way it should be. Problem is when you compare it to the other rifles they deal high enough damage to where it doesn't really matter which tank they are against since they wreck both shields and armor mercilessly (Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle).

Plasma Rifle is literally the only the only rifle I know of that makes you consider how much armor they have to shields.

So what needs to happen? You cannot say that the Plasma Rifle isn't the least desirable frontline rifle in the game because it is. Yes, I do fairly well with it but the fact is I, we, can do so much better using any of the other rifles than the Plasma Rifle (which is why you do not see this rifle in PC much at all)

So, to bring the Plasma Rifle up to Par even though I feel that it's actually exactly where it needs to be...we have two options:

Option 1: Buff Plasma Rifle damage to where it doesn't matter if it's against shields or armor like all other rifles

Option 2: Tweak other rifles to where they completely wreck their intended tank but are slightly slowed down by the opposite tank. The way it should be

Now begin the waves of people saying the Plasma Rifle is completely fine

"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6887	Posted - 2014.08.03 15:02:00 - [1] - Quote While the recent buff to plasma Rifles was needed something still feels off about the Plasma Rifle, especially when comparing it against the other rifles and especially since you do not want to use that rifle in PC matches. What's the problem with it though? I feel that it wrecks shields and is heavily slowed down when you get into armor, which is the way it should be. Problem is when you compare it to the other rifles they deal high enough damage to where it doesn't really matter which tank they are against since they wreck both shields and armor mercilessly (Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, RR). Plasma Rifle is literally the only the only rifle I know of that makes you consider how much armor they have to shields. So what needs to happen? You cannot say that the Plasma Rifle isn't the least desirable frontline rifle in the game because it is. Yes, I do fairly well with it but the fact is I, we, can do so much better using any of the other rifles than the Plasma Rifle (which is why you do not see this rifle in PC much at all) So, to bring the Plasma Rifle up to Par even though I feel that it's actually exactly where it needs to be...we have two options: Option 1: Buff Plasma Rifle damage to where it doesn't matter if it's against shields or armor like all other rifles Option 2: Tweak other rifles to where they completely wreck their intended tank but are slightly slowed down by the opposite tank. [i]The way it should be[/i] Now begin the waves of people saying the Plasma Rifle is completely fine see you space cowboy...
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 242	Posted - 2014.08.03 18:55:00 - [2] - Quote ok i'll bite. i think it could do with a faster traveling shot, you shoot at the reds from distance and if they dont know about you all is well, but when you fire at somebody that knows you are there they just calmly step to one side. that said i also agree that the weapons dont seem to really take into account the difference between shields and armour.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1590	Posted - 2014.08.03 19:55:00 - [3] - Quote To really get into this I'd like to look at the damage profiles more just to make the differences clear to everyone. Laser: +20% vs shields, -20% vs armor Hybrid Blaster: +10% vs shields, -10% vs armor Projectile: -5% vs shields, +10% vs armor Hybrid Rail: -10% vs shields, +10% vs armor Explosive: -20% vs shields, +20% vs armor Just looking at these numbers one would think that the AR would behave like the RR but since the RR has a higher alpha damage it is able to take down shields just fine regardless of the damage profile. The AR on the other hand, with its smaller damage per shot will have a very hard time with armor. Similarly to the RR the Scr, with its massive DPS, can easily kill armor tanked suits regardless of its -20% penalty vs armor. The CR kills both armor and shields relatively well compared to the other rifles simply based on its damage profile. It has the smallest penalty and Fun > Realism
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12536	Posted - 2014.08.03 21:03:00 - [4] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: While the recent buff to plasma Rifles was needed something still feels off about the Plasma Rifle, especially when comparing it against the other rifles and especially since you do not want to use that rifle in PC matches. What's the problem with it though? I feel that it wrecks shields and is heavily slowed down when you get into armor, which is the way it should be. Problem is when you compare it to the other rifles they deal high enough damage to where it doesn't really matter which tank they are against since they wreck both shields and armor mercilessly (Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle). Plasma Rifle is literally the only the only rifle I know of that makes you consider how much armor they have to shields. So what needs to happen? You cannot say that the Plasma Rifle isn't the least desirable frontline rifle in the game because it is. Yes, I do fairly well with it but the fact is I, we, can do so much better using any of the other rifles than the Plasma Rifle (which is why you do not see this rifle in PC much at all) So, to bring the Plasma Rifle up to Par even though I feel that it's actually exactly where it needs to be...we have two options: Option 1: Buff Plasma Rifle damage to where it doesn't matter if it's against shields or armor like all other rifles Option 2: Tweak other rifles to where they completely wreck their intended tank but are slightly slowed down by the opposite tank. The way it should be Now begin the waves of people saying the Plasma Rifle is completely fine I'll bite too. You sure as **** do have to worry about armour with the ScR. Especially when engaging stacked armour tankers. Yes we might have a good DPS, I'll be the fist to admit that, we still only have about 15 shots to pump out and are having to manage heat. If you ever get to that overheat seize moment you either need to have you enemy dead.....or you are dead. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3782	Posted - 2014.08.03 21:23:00 - [5] - Quote Dude I run away from armor stacked heavies now because of the -20% to armor plus the fact that they usually have a hmg equipped. The problem the PR has is the same problem the Ascr has, low dmg per a shot and that's it. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1831	Posted - 2014.08.03 22:00:00 - [6] - Quote its in a good place, stop crying. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6891	Posted - 2014.08.03 23:20:00 - [7] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: its in a good place, stop crying. who let this pleb in my corp? see you space cowboy...
TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn Going for the gold 44	Posted - 2014.08.03 23:30:00 - [8] - Quote Assault rifles have become OP with the ROF buff, I've been getting killed by Duvolles and GEKs WAY too often lately. Calculate the DPS of the assault variant of all the rifles and you'll see what i mean. Shotgunner for life. EDIT: Scratch that, I love my lasers.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6892	Posted - 2014.08.03 23:34:00 - [9] - Quote TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn wrote: Assault rifles have become OP with the ROF buff, I've been getting killed by Duvolles and GEKs WAY too often lately. Calculate the DPS of the assault variant of all the rifles and you'll see what i mean. one question...have you calculated the DPS for plasma rifles between shield and armor and compare it to the other rifles? see you space cowboy...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12543	Posted - 2014.08.03 23:37:00 - [10] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn wrote: Assault rifles have become OP with the ROF buff, I've been getting killed by Duvolles and GEKs WAY too often lately. Calculate the DPS of the assault variant of all the rifles and you'll see what i mean. one question...have you calculated the DPS for plasma rifles between shield and armor and compare it to the other rifles? Don't know if this guy knows AR DPS values are lower than most other assault variants....... "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 173	Posted - 2014.08.03 23:46:00 - [11] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Dude I run away from armor stacked heavies now because of the -20% to armor plus the fact that they usually have a hmg equipped. The problem the PR has is the same problem the Ascr has, low dmg per a shot and that's it. The pr....do I sense a me3 fan here? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Jace Silencerwolf Outcasts For Hire 6	Posted - 2014.08.04 00:27:00 - [12] - Quote lol really? I have cut down gal heavies with my bpo ar at 50 meters yes it takes alittle longer than againsy some but any shield suit are a joke against it
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 321	Posted - 2014.08.04 00:37:00 - [13] - Quote I'll kick this dead horse again... I think the main problem with AR is the range. All the other rifles function well at cqc and highly effectively at range; a win win situation. The AR performs well close up but places the user at a major disadvantage when facing the other rifles at range. And due to dps fall off, at range the penalty to armor becomes even more noticeable. I would like to see the optimal range extended from 40m to 60m and effective to from 70m to 90m. AKA - StarVenger
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 228	Posted - 2014.08.04 00:45:00 - [14] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: To really get into this I'd like to look at the damage profiles more just to make the differences clear to everyone. Laser: +20% vs shields, -20% vs armor Hybrid Blaster: +10% vs shields, -10% vs armor Projectile: -5% vs shields, +10% vs armor Hybrid Rail: -10% vs shields, +10% vs armor Explosive: -20% vs shields, +20% vs armor Just looking at these numbers one would think that the AR would behave like the RR but since the RR has a higher alpha damage it is able to take down shields just fine regardless of the damage profile. The AR on the other hand, with its smaller damage per shot will have a very hard time with armor. Similarly to the RR the Scr, with its massive DPS, can easily kill armor tanked suits regardless of its -20% penalty vs armor. The CR kills both armor and shields relatively well compared to the other rifles simply based on its damage profile. It has the smallest penalty and i find Lazors regardless of those %s obliterate shields and MELT armor no problem Lazor rifle more so then the ScR it seems. RR seems to be the FOTM atm as almost no one shield tanks, every one armor tanks, and RR is supremely accurate as for CR it feels more like -20% on shield tbh. and AR seems like 15% shield and +5 armor as for explosive its bull that its -20% on shield i sware its like +10% shield Logibro in training. Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 228	Posted - 2014.08.04 00:47:00 - [15] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: I'll kick this dead horse again... I think the main problem with AR is the range. All the other rifles function well at cqc and highly effectively at range; a win win situation. The AR performs well close up but places the user at a major disadvantage when facing the other rifles at range. And due to dps fall off, at range the penalty to armor becomes even more noticeable. I would like to see the optimal range extended from 40m to 60m and effective to from 70m to 90m. AR used to be the FOTM till it was nerfed into a more closer/mid range rifle while RR is mid/long and sniper is Very long... because of all the people whoreing the Douval AR its damage over range was nuts back befor 1.7 Logibro in training. Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
Cass Caul 302	Posted - 2014.08.04 01:53:00 - [16] - Quote My main enemy is usually a Cal-Scout, therefore the AR is my first choice in Rifles. If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11483	Posted - 2014.08.04 02:11:00 - [17] - Quote The AR is... weird. If you look at the DPS of the Assault SCR, Assault CR or Assault RR, the AR should be beating them. And yet all of those feel like superior rifles in my hands. It can't be damage per bullet because Assault CR has less, it can't be DPS because the AR beats them all, it can't be clip size because RR has the least bullets. Maybe it's a combination of multiple factors, but the AR feels off. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11483	Posted - 2014.08.04 02:12:00 - [18] - Quote I won't call for a buff until I figure out what's wrong, I'm just saying that my performance with the PR seems to be worse than the other rifles, despite me being a CQC assault fighter and having the most SP put into it. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6894	Posted - 2014.08.04 02:26:00 - [19] - Quote Yeah Cat I'm not sure what it is either but it's just poor compared to the others. Maybe the falloff range is too much. Maybe it should have more Optimal Range but disappears at a certain point like the Ion Pistol. I'd sacrifice falloff range for more optimal for sure. see you space cowboy...
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 59	Posted - 2014.08.04 02:36:00 - [20] - Quote Its that damage profile. Armor based weapons are simply more effective. Ever put a level in RR? With basically no sp investment (militia works) that thing wrecks people. PRs problem is its dinky range. Its still better at killing heavies than scr though

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12554	Posted - 2014.08.04 02:36:00 - [21] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I won't call for a buff until I figure out what's wrong, I'm just saying that my performance with the PR seems to be worse than the other rifles, despite me being a CQC assault fighter and having the most SP put into it. IMO Sights don't help on the PR to be quite honest....... "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
JP Acuna Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 229	Posted - 2014.08.04 03:38:00 - [22] - Quote The problem is it has the worst range of all rifles. AND, in its optimal range it's still outperformed by the assault combat rifle. Lot of people say it's easy to use and it has no overheat, etc etc... Well, it's the same with the ACR, only that the latter does a lot more damage and kills a lot faster. It's pretty much like it doesn't have a place or situation where it's the best choice.
Jathniel G I A N T 1129	Posted - 2014.08.04 06:40:00 - [23] - Quote OP is right. The Gallente Assault Rifle is probably the best BALANCED gun in the game right now. I got it with proficiencies, and it slices through shields, but boy does it take time to grind through armor. A pair of damage mods only slightly alleviates this. The RR beats the AR at range. (The TAR would be better than the RR, if not for it's muzzle climb.) The CR beats the AR in close quarters. (The Duvolle won't beat the Six Kin nor the Boundless.) The AR has the advantage of being the smoothest, and most well-behaved of the 3... but other than that, it seems to just be a general purpose gun. Jack of all trades, master of none. Combine that with it's damage profile, and you have a beautifully balanced weapon. Loved, but not used. That's probably what has it at a disadvantage in PC. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Zindorak 1.U.P 244	Posted - 2014.08.04 17:05:00 - [24] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: My main enemy is usually a Cal-Scout, therefore the AR is my first choice in Rifles. Use a ScR. Kills those things in a few shots Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
Sum1ne Else Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1300	Posted - 2014.08.04 22:25:00 - [25] - Quote I think it has something to do with kick or even dispersion, but I guess the dispersion is maxed using the Assault gk.0? I agree with the OP, there is something that is not quite right about it and you will end up just using the CR. I was using it today on my galmando and I think its the kick especially when comparing it to the aCR. What do you think? Impressive? Longest PLC Kill - 151.8m Logi mk.0 - Commando gk.0 - Scout gk.0 - Assault ak.0
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4853	Posted - 2014.08.04 22:46:00 - [26] - Quote It's because shield has a low HP ceiling It takes considerably more time for a plasma rifle to eat through most armor tankers than a rail rifle needs to eat through most shield tankers. At the same time, the lowest range rifle is competing against longer range rifles with higher DPS (better damage profile on CR) or is just completely outranged by the rail rifle. I have no ***** against the rail rifle anymore though, but like I said, far easier to strip shields with a rail rifle than armor with an AR I believe that rather than buff ARs, tune the CR, maybe the SCR because it's powerful and balanced by its heat, but Amarr Assault.... Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3242	Posted - 2014.08.05 00:01:00 - [27] - Quote Ill tell you exactly what is off about the other rifles. 1) Combat Rifles Projectile damage profile effectively give all Combat Rifles a 5% damage boost. 1a) Burst Combat Rifles No conceivable delay between bursts allow experienced/modded controllers users to achieve 500DPS (+50) before profile damage. Futhermore also has 20m range more. 1b) Assault Combat Rifles Don't have enough range for the DPS they sacrifice at 400 DPS (-50 ) before profile damge, has 6m extra range. 2) Scrambler Rifles Easy to avoid overheat system gives Scrambler Rifles disproportionately large magazines for their allowing for absolute marathons of combat. 2a) Tactical Scrambler Rifle Charge shot gives incredibly high opening shot that totals most shields in one hit, modded controllers can also achieve 720 DPS for a moderately lomg amount of time. 2b) Assault Scrambler Rifle Has disproportionately high DPS for range (out DPS's combat rifle) and decent range +20m. 3) Rail Rifles Have incredibly tight hipfire spread for a long range weapon making them too effective in close quarters. 3a) Breach Rail Rifle Doesn't have enough recoil, while kick is just unfairly distracting (there is a difference between the 2) 3b) Assault Rail Rifle Has the same range as the Breach, a huge advantage over anyother assault variant rifle. It can be fixed, but CCP have said they are currently appeased with the rifles and there are more important thimgs to be doing first. Ideally the rifles need to have range and damage homogenised so that damage and range become less inportant factors when choosing your weapon. I made a post on it if you can be bothered to search. While rifles are currently and I quote "more balanced than ever" until these kind of charecterisitcs are homogenised at least one of the weapons will always feel out of place. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3242	Posted - 2014.08.05 00:05:00 - [28] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: The problem is it has the worst range of all rifles. AND, in its optimal range it's still outperformed by the assault combat rifle. Lot of people say it's easy to use and it has no overheat, etc etc... Well, it's the same with the ACR, only that the latter does a lot more damage and kills a lot faster. It's pretty much like it doesn't have a place or situation where it's the best choice. The ACR has less damge even with the profile boosting it up, for a measly 6m extra range. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3242	Posted - 2014.08.05 00:10:00 - [29] - Quote TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn wrote: Assault rifles have become OP with the ROF buff, I've been getting killed by Duvolles and GEKs WAY too often lately. Calculate the DPS of the assault variant of all the rifles and you'll see what i mean. Which until you put them next to the ranges mean nothing. The Plasma Rifles suffer unfair ranges for menial da age increases. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6926	Posted - 2014.08.05 00:45:00 - [30] - Quote When CCP says something is balanced you can ignore that. It's when the community says its balanced. we all know CCP barely play their own game....or just suck worse than FW bluedots see you space cowboy...



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page