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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3172
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Posted - 2014.07.29 17:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Ran into on in a match, and HOLY **** MAN. Those things are utterly insane. Spent most of the time in the redline (as that's the ONLY place you have a chance of shooting one when you are a lone tanker), ended up losing the tank to it eventually (actually another tank finally came up, he just got the killing blow).
Called in an ADS to see what this thing was all about, and was AMAZED at how the gunner instantly (all missiles left that launcher in less a second) destroyed my ADS. OP much?
Why doesn't EVERYONE do this!
Because some of us have standards, chivalry and numerous other gentlemanly attributes that make us prefer a fair fight!
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3174
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Posted - 2014.07.29 22:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Klutch Cordova wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Because some of us have standards, chivalry and numerous other gentlemanly attributes that make us prefer a fair fight! The only fair fights in Dust are the ones where everyone is unfair. Kdr matchmaking fixes this.
No, it breakes more than it fixes.
You end up with
Heavies with no Masters
Logis with no Dogs
Thale Snipers against Scouts
AV against Assaults
Tanks against each other.
KDR is a pointless metric to multiple roles and in some cases has no bearing on their performance.
Which is more important . . . . .
A Logi who kills people, or a logi who rezzes people?
A AVer who kills people, or a AVer who destroys anything with a turret?
A Scout who kills people, or a Scouts who scans people?
A Sentinel who kills people, or a Sentinel who never loose a point?
KDR only matters to those whoose job is to 'kill people', which is a single role.
The best matchmaking system would be an EvE-esque one. 3 Security statuses, each time you achieve a new sew you achieve the relevant security status. You can bring anything below the designated tier, but at your own risk.
(Example: You are free to run STD in NULL SEC Space, but if you die to lots of proto, you have only yourself to blame)
HIGH SEC: MLT/STD
LOW SEC: ADV
NULL SEC: PRO
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3177
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Posted - 2014.07.30 03:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Klutch Cordova wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Because some of us have standards, chivalry and numerous other gentlemanly attributes that make us prefer a fair fight! The only fair fights in Dust are the ones where everyone is unfair. Kdr matchmaking fixes this. No, it breakes more than it fixes. You end up with Heavies with no Masters Logis with no Dogs Thale Snipers against Scouts AV against Assaults Tanks against each other. KDR is a pointless metric to multiple roles and in some cases has no bearing on their performance. Which is more important . . . . . A Logi who kills people, or a logi who rezzes people? A AVer who kills people, or a AVer who destroys anything with a turret? A Scout who kills people, or a Scouts who scans people? A Sentinel who kills people, or a Sentinel who never loose a point? KDR only matters to those whoose job is to 'kill people', which is a single role. The best matchmaking system would be an EvE-esque one. 3 Security statuses, each time you achieve a new sew you achieve the relevant security status. You can bring anything below the designated tier, but at your own risk. (Example: You are free to run STD in NULL SEC Space, but if you die to lots of proto, you have only yourself to blame) HIGH SEC: MLT/STD LOW SEC: ADV NULL SEC: PRO Assumes perfect weapon balance. Kdrmm doesn't need that. It just matches lethality and lets roles be filled at level of lethality.
Precisely so logis are lethal somthey get put at the bottom, then thet shoudl 500 noobs in STD gear in a match, go up, go down go up, go down.
The top ranked matches are just full of Slayers who never even bother hacking points be cause they are too concerned with their KDR to leave the redline.
KDR matchmaking only works in games like COD, where the only objective is to kill people.
Perfect weapon balance is not required, all though if you believe otherwise, please fell free to actually give a detailed explanation as to why you need perfect weapon balance, when it has nothing to do with the system I have suggested.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3177
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Posted - 2014.07.30 03:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
emm kay wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:
Why doesn't EVERYONE do this!
forge guns. Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:It is something I would like to get fixed ASAP. It is an imbalance that we do not need. disagree completely. you have three pilots, each sunk 1-2m MINUMUM SP in order to even get this far. you plan to try to take it away? not only that, any person who can pick up a forge gun can shoot at a bird to make it run. that includes the MLT version. If two people picked up the MLT forge guns, you could down 3 people and a 500,000 ISK ship. when you're out numbered. this simply isn't fair to the dropshippers. not only that, you said yourself in YOUR videos that AV gets the first strive. and with a ship that had strength comprimises made to it, this is simply unfair.
Why don't they just get three dropships.
You shouldn't be skilling into dropship operation-to use a turret.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3190
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Posted - 2014.07.31 15:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Quote:Perfect weapon balance is not required, all though if you believe otherwise, please fell free to actually give a detailed explanation as to why you need perfect weapon balance, when it has nothing to do with the system I have suggested. None of those "problems" takes into consideration the one thing dust is so proud of... cost. Stack all the slayers at the top, and somebody is going to fall, and staying up there is going to be expensive. So, slayers will have to get isk from somewhere other than slaying... the whole thing just poetically unfolds like a spring flower. I wouldn't worry about it too much, we're never getting it. Mainly because it would work.
It's not going to be expensive because you will either be able to maintain your KDR and thus a profit.
Or you drop down 1 tier make some money becauss you just slaughtered so many people the match payout would make bill gates's salary look like petty change.
It simply doesn't work. Their are too many ways the system
Gùå Encourages Slayer only playstyles
Gùå Discourages Healer only playstyles
Gùå Encourages Redline Sniping and any other dirty tactic used to pad KDR
I'll give you an example from Assassins Creed Multiplayer.
When you play it tells you what your world rank is. When I started mine was 5,789,429 as I progressed through my ranking went up, and my opponents changed.
Finally I reached the point where for a long period of time I could go no further.
I was stuck somewhere between 5,400 and 2,300 as flited back and forth after a series of good and bad matches I began to notice a pattern.
Everyone between 5,400 and 3,600 all had the same playstyle. They all had nack fro running around at full pelt and simply going for as many as low-point kills as possible. In fact 1 guy managed to pull 40 kills in one of the matches, yet died 30 times as well. Now I'm not sure if your up with how it was intended to be played, but you got incredibly powerful killstreak bonuses after just 6 actions.
However once you got past 3,600 the entire dynamic changed complelty the game was played in compleltly different way, suddenly the way to go was smoke bombs and traps. In that matched their were only 4 kills between 6 players. In a 15 minute match.
Is that what you want for DUST, defined lines where only certain playstyles are relevant. Where everyone in your ranking bracket is running the same fit as you?
If anything it is your system that will require perfect weapon balance, afterall exactly how plasma cannoneers do you expect to see in the top brackets? Or how many PRO Cal Scouts do you expect to see in the lowest brackets? In anygame with any form of ranking system the playerbase stagnates.
In games like COD where you matched against players of equal skill that is fine, but afterall all the weapons are much better balanced.
In games like Assassins Creed or here on DUST where certain tactics, weapons and abilities are considerably more effecient or effective than others, it creates tiers where everyone plays the same way and is rather boring.
The system I suggested simply stops players from using Proto against mlt greenberrys fresh out of the academy. It gives way to a system that more accurately relfects new eden.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3190
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Posted - 2014.07.31 16:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
DontChimpOut wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:White-Lion wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:In all honesty, yes it isn't skill stacking that should go. But those bonuses from skills do allow for some extreme DPS. More so then I think SHOULD be allowed.
Like I said though, I don't think there should be such a thing as skill stacking still. I think it would be better off based on a single player (Gunner or Pilot).
For example if it was based on the skills of the ADS pilot, then the gunners still receive a 50% ROF boost from the pilot for having the skill maxed.
On the other hand if it was based on the gunner skill, then it's up to the gunner to skill into the ADS tree to obtain the ROF bonus.
But I still maintain stacking between the 2 is a bit much. I still don't see the problem with keeping it the way it is. For using the "OP" teamwork, they sacrifice their ehp in order to gain dps, just like infantry, as well as losing troops on the ground. The problem with changing it, is that if 'teamworking' gets any worse, the more likely you will have just 3 separate pilots, which when it works efficiently, can be even worse than skill stacking is now. Exploiting a bug isn't 'teamwork'. Teamwork is telling your buddy there's an enemy to the left of him, or warning your teams tank that there's an enemy tank out of sight but it's coming around x point. Teamwork is "Can you hack the point while I watch your back". Teamwork is repping the heavy or picking someone up with a nanite injector. Teamwork is not "lets all skill into assault dropships - solely because they're probably not working as intended, and if we do so we can get a 30% damage damage buff and a 150% rate of fire buff, and anyone who hasn't done the same thing or has the integrity to not do something that seems fishy simply won't be able to compete". There is a big difference between 'teamwork' and 'bug exploitation' and it isn't subtle at all. Because you're the sole decider on what teamwork is and isn't. Do us all a favor, go play Call of Duty and stop ruining this game.
Says the guy exploiting game mechanics, Like some COD baby who's complaining because he wants to use a turbo controller on semi-auto weapon!
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3190
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Posted - 2014.07.31 16:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:emm kay wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:It is something I would like to get fixed ASAP. It is an imbalance that we do not need. disagree completely. you have three pilots, each sunk 1-2m MINUMUM SP in order to even get this far. you plan to try to take it away? not only that, any person who can pick up a forge gun can shoot at a bird to make it run. that includes the MLT version. If two people picked up the MLT forge guns, you could down 3 people and a 500,000 ISK ship. when you're out numbered. this simply isn't fair to the dropshippers. not only that, you said yourself in YOUR videos that AV gets the first strive. and with a ship that had strength comprimises made to it, this is simply unfair. Why don't they just get three dropships. You shouldn't be skilling into dropship operation-to use a turret.
- Vehicle limit
- to promote co-operation in MULTIPLAYER game
- 1/3 cost
- contentrated firepower vs one target (HAV)
- Avoid midair collisions
Quite right, but why is he skilling into dropship operation to man a turret? Surely he should be skilling into turret operation!
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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