DUST Search - Legion subscription model

Ghural wrote:

The dark cloud wrote:

Subscriptions do not equal actual players.

Regardless of whether one person owns three accounts or three people own one each, total subscriptions have increased. In any case, it is just as simple (even easier) for one person to open multiple accounts in a free to play game.

If Legion does go pure free to play, I guess the question becomes, how do you convince players to voluntarily part with their money? I don't know what the conversion rate for Dust was but I'm going to guess it was really low, that players weren't happy to spend money on destructible items, and that once they reached a certain point in terms of SP (full proto gear for example), the necessity to buy boosters isn't there any more.

Speaking of boosters in one sense Dust514 did have an optional subscription in the form of the 30 day boosters. Did people think they were worth the money for the accelerated skill gain.

I found them useful but expensive.

If they were to have something similar in Legion, would 30 days accelerated skill gain be value enough? Or should a 30 booster/VIP access come with other perks?


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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8917	Posted - 2014.07.26 11:54:00 - [1] - Quote Sorry, Ghural. I have to agree with Hawk-Eye on this. Time is money and you can't argue with that at all. And unlike paper or internet money, you can't get a refund on Time itself. Once you waste it, it's gone. There are still people in Dust who are still playing the game mainly because they are already invested in it and are waiting for CCP to transfer their characters over to Legion when the time comes. No need for a subscription model here. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8917	Posted - 2014.07.26 14:03:00 - [2] - Quote Ghural wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Sorry, Ghural. I have to agree with Hawk-Eye on this. Time is money and you can't argue with that at all. And unlike paper or internet money, you can't get a refund on Time itself. Once you waste it, it's gone. There are still people in Dust who are still playing the game mainly because they are already invested in it and are waiting for CCP to transfer their characters over to Legion when the time comes. No need for a subscription model here. Sorry. But you guys have completely missed the point. Well done. And where did I say that time isn't a commodity?. Nice technique. Insert meaning that wasn't there, then argue against it. All I said was that all you have wasted in was time... not that time didn't have value. Perhaps it has something to do with how you presented your idea. Anyways, I have known many players both in other games and in person who often have a problem paying any subscriptions for a game. Players today have a problem paying $15 a month for Eve Online and feel it's too expensive. Anything more than $5/month is considered by many people to be too expensive for a video game related subscription. It's why a lot of friends I know in person often prefer the Playstation because of the free multiplayer service it offers compared to Microsoft's subscription service. Of course, that's just for the PS3. The PS4 on the other hand does require a PS+ subscription for multiplayer but with one major exception... free-to-play games. Source: https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5060/~/ps4-online-multiplayer-requirements Quote: Exceptions Free-to-play games are exempt from this requirement and can be played online with no PS Plus subscription. Examples of games that fall into this category are: Blacklight Retribution, DC Universe Online, and War Frame. As for the PC, you see plenty of people playing Team Fortress 2 (which is free-to-play) online. Because it's a fun game, people stick with it in the long term just like how Halo players stick together long term because Halo is also a fun game. And that's something that can keep someone more invested in any game without needing a subscription. Making it fun for everyone. Dust was lacking that feature for too long and thus almost everyone left the game over time. If Legion can pull it off with the fun factor, then we won't need any subscription model to support it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8923	Posted - 2014.07.27 19:19:00 - [3] - Quote Ghural wrote: medomai grey wrote: I think CCP is trying to grow their player base, not shrink it. Well having it free to play failed to achieve that. And EVE subscriptions apparently continue to increase. I'm not saying that a subscription is necessarily the answer, rather to have a discussion on the merits of each option. Eve Online's subscription base grew mainly because of how complex and diverse Eve Online really is. It's a cut-throat universe where anyone can do anything without punishment from the Devs. You can corner the market, crash the market, scam players, rob your corp, spy on your corp, suicide gank miners, burn the nearest economic hub, and all the other things that would normally get you banned otherwise in other games. It also has the most stable and flexible player-driven economy in the MMO industry and has a robust industry system with its own player-elected representatives. To top all that off, Eve also allows you to extend your game time with in-game ISK via the PLEX market which has proven to be remarkable over the years. The subscription system only has one merit and that it brings revenue to CCP. Beyond that, it doesn't attract players. It kind of scares them away a bit unless of course the game is worth the money spent and that is the real key to the problem with low player recruitment and retention. If the game is not fun enough or it's not diverse enough or if it's not balanced enough, then players will not bother to spend the money. The only reason why Dust had enough numbers in the beginning was because it is a free-to-play game. PS: Dust failed to achieve it goal not because the F2P model failed it. Lack of core content, lack of meaningful impact, lack of dev communications and coordination, lack of focus from the devs, etc. is what caused Dust to fail. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8925	Posted - 2014.07.28 02:25:00 - [4] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: One of the greatest selling points of DUST and Legion is that your friends can come and try it and play with you without spending money to do so. Eve Online kind of does the same thing, but it's only a 14-day trial. You can get a 21-day trial but that will require an invitation from an already-existing player within Eve Online. Speaking of which. https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8925	Posted - 2014.07.28 02:31:00 - [5] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Yeah, but most corps the existing players are in don't accept trial accounts, and you need more than a couple weeks to get into EVE, to be honest. Pretty much. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8931	Posted - 2014.07.28 06:18:00 - [6] - Quote Ghural wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Subscriptions do not equal actual players. Regardless of whether one person owns three accounts or three people own one each, total subscriptions have increased. In any case, it is just as simple (even easier) for one person to open multiple accounts in a free to play game. If Legion does go pure free to play, I guess the question becomes, how do you convince players to voluntarily part with their money? I don't know what the conversion rate for Dust was but I'm going to guess it was really low, that players weren't happy to spend money on destructible items, and that once they reached a certain point in terms of SP (full proto gear for example), the necessity to buy boosters isn't there any more. Speaking of boosters in one sense Dust514 did have an optional subscription in the form of the 30 day boosters. Did people think they were worth the money for the accelerated skill gain. I found them useful but expensive. If they were to have something similar in Legion, would 30 days accelerated skill gain be value enough? Or should a 30 booster/VIP access come with other perks? If you want a perfect example of people willing to spend money on a free-to-play game, you should look at PSHome. You can play it right now since you obviously have a PSN account. People are ready to spend money on virtual bling any day. In fact, almost all of us here recommended CCP to implement vanity items into Dust because a lot of us here wanted to decorate our suits with all sorts of colors and styles to make us stand out while we're busy shooting each other or waiting in the warbarge for the trams system to function again. Of course, vanity items that are permanent eventually start losing their appeal as a stable revenue source as more and more players get them and don't feel like buying another one. Case in point, the New Eden Store clothes in Eve Online. CCP later decided to implement a paint schemes for consumable ships in Eve Online. They did this by introducing BPCs (blue print copies) that have a limited run in which it consumes a default-scheme ship and converts into a radical-scheme ship. But if you lose the ship, you use the scheme and have to use the BPC again until you run out of available runs. For suits, it may not be practical since players die a lot in suits. Although some players often save those suits for just showing off on the warbarge like you see the 'Quafe' suit in Dust. But for vehicles, which have a very long life cycle, this might be practical. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8932	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:08:00 - [7] - Quote Hawk-eye Occultus wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0&list=UUCODtTcd5M1JavPCOr_Uydg That is all. Ah, I forgot about that. Excellent point indeed. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8937	Posted - 2014.07.31 03:55:00 - [8] - Quote Ghural wrote: Well not to mention that multi boxing isn't the only reason why people have multiple accounts. Remember the character recycling exploit in Dust? According to CCP Rattati over at the Dust forums, they are looking into reducing the starter ISK and possibly increasing the biomass timer to make it as impractical as possible to do that. Of course, everyone else recommended that CCP should lock the ISK transfer until the player completes the academy. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.