DUST Search - Stop nerfing things

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Atiim wrote:

When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure.

Has never been achieved in any game aside from rock paper scissors. And that isn't a very fun game.

Even chess is unbalanced because one player goes first.
How does that make chess unbalanced, you aren't given a greater number of moves over your opponent, furthermore pretty much every move you can make has a direct counter.

You as an opponent has no better pieces than the other.

And to be honest, balance doesn't help a game. It destroys it. Imbalance is what creates situations that force players to develop new meta, leading to a counters, strategies, and emergent gameplay.
What? So when everything is balanced you believe there will be no meta game? Instead of it becoming 'how do we counter the FOTM' a balanced game becomes 'what do we need and where do we need them in order to win this match'

Perfect balance simply creates a game where you go through the same motions over and over again with nothing new to devise or create. It is something lesser skilled players yearn for.
Or balance creates a game more interesting than just 16 players running the strongest gear and carving through crowds of people, it becomes a game where tactics, teamplay and intelligence win out over brute force.

You don't want to be known as a lesser skilled player, do you?

They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.24 05:54:00 - [1] - Quote Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10883	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:01:00 - [2] - Quote When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:06:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. Itll only be balanced when people stop saying things are op. Its an endless cycle.What would be an absolute balanced game to you?
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10883	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:15:00 - [4] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. Itll only be balanced when people stop saying things are op. Its an endless cycle.What would be an absolute balanced game to you? Well, When every item has to make a proportionate sacrifice for each gain. When every weapon has a TTK involving a reasonable tradeoff between range and DPS. When every role is perfectly viable, with none being completely superior than the other. When every weapon is perfectly viable, and all perform reasonably well within it's intended niche. When every item has a purpose, and a use in a preferred situation. When every tactic/item has a reasonably successful counter barring itself. When no Dropsuit can fit both PRO Modules & PRO Weaponry without sacrifices. WP/D Matchmaking That's a perfectly balanced game. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition Red Whines. 37	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:22:00 - [5] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure. Totally with U. But guess what? These threads will end when all this bitching out ends. When every player that suck can get a game 50/0 Ergo? NEVER! Tho, I agreed some stuff needed a fix. For example, Tactical AR. But in general, stuff is OK by now.
Michael Arck 4947	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:29:00 - [6] - Quote It is impossible to achieve perfect balancing. We've been seeking this unicorn for two years now and all that has come out of it is a constant fluctuation of items within the Dust universe which is good to use for a few months and then not good to use after it has been nerfed. Only for it to reclaim its rightful throne again until the next batch of All Whine Stars seek to get it nerfed again. Hell, some things that has been changed to get "perfect balance" has solely been done to lessen the amount of its usage on field due to the over abundance of complaints by stubborn mercenaries. Does that sound right to you? There is no such thing as perfect balance. Is anything in this world perfect? No. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4509	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:35:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. Has never been achieved in any game aside from rock paper scissors. And that isn't a very fun game. Even chess is unbalanced because one player goes first.
Mathew LaBorde The Generals Anime Empire. 54	Posted - 2014.07.24 09:26:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. No game is Perce fly balanced. There re weapons s PSOE use and weapons s people do t use.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.25 02:57:00 - [9] - Quote Bump
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5493	Posted - 2014.07.25 03:28:00 - [10] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure. These threads will end when someone in CCP grows a brain and decide is a good idea to give their players a Respec option they can use every 2-3 months... Then , no one will have to cry their stuff has been nerfed Then, all the FOTM chasers will make obvious whats broken in no time for CCP to fix Then. every player can test every fit and dropsuit and weapon to decide what truly they want to become Then, no matter what CCP f**s up, players will be able to play the game at full while they fix it back Then we will have peace in the kingdom...* Stealth Storm

boba's fetta Shining Flame Amarr Empire 776	Posted - 2014.07.25 06:16:00 - [11] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure. These threads will end when someone in CCP grows a brain and decide is a good idea to give their players a Respec option they can use every 2-3 months... Then , no one will have to cry their stuff has been nerfed Then, all the FOTM chasers will make obvious whats broken in no time for CCP to fix Then. every player can test every fit and dropsuit and weapon to decide what truly they want to become Then, no matter what CCP f**s up, players will be able to play the game at full while they fix it back Then we will have peace in the kingdom...* nope people will still find a way to complain.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.25 07:11:00 - [12] - Quote Ccp you should be taking these posts with a grain of salt. Whenever i see 1 of these op posts its either from a scout of a heavy, etc. trying to nerf their counter. Its making everything equally weak and boring thats why we lost all these vehicles.Just look at other game designers they dont cbange their game after some op threads.I suggest you watch some of your old presentations and get back to your roots.This is a great game but the nerfs and buffs are getting excessive.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 120	Posted - 2014.07.25 07:14:00 - [13] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure. Ccp pls nerf the op. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.25 07:16:00 - [14] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure. Ccp pls nerf the op. Or keep everything op so everyones on equal grounds.Better than making endless tweaks.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1527	Posted - 2014.07.25 07:17:00 - [15] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure. These threads will end when someone in CCP grows a brain and decide is a good idea to give their players a Respec option they can use every 2-3 months... Then , no one will have to cry their stuff has been nerfed Then, all the FOTM chasers will make obvious whats broken in no time for CCP to fix Then. every player can test every fit and dropsuit and weapon to decide what truly they want to become Then, no matter what CCP f**s up, players will be able to play the game at full while they fix it back Then we will have peace in the kingdom...* what?! someone with a working brain posting valid claims and arguments in the dust forums?! the sky is falling and hell just froze!
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11271	Posted - 2014.07.25 08:41:00 - [16] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. Has never been achieved in any game aside from rock paper scissors. And that isn't a very fun game. Even chess is unbalanced because one player goes first. And to be honest, balance doesn't help a game. It destroys it. Imbalance is what creates situations that force players to develop new meta, leading to a counters, strategies, and emergent gameplay. Perfect balance simply creates a game where you go through the same motions over and over again with nothing new to devise or create. It is something lesser skilled players yearn for. You don't want to be known as a lesser skilled player, do you? What you're describing is perfect imbalance, rock paper scissors only infinitely more complex. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Leanna Boghin Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2014.07.25 11:47:00 - [17] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop it! This games already somewhat balanced. And no more op threads either youre confusing the hell out of the devs, im sure. easy solution remove all suits and mods and weaponry and vehicles and force everyone to run around in starter fits meleeing each other. Not only would that solve the "Its TOO OP NERF IT CCP!!!" bull crap but it would be funny as hell to watch. But i agree they really need to stop nerfing all my goodies cause if they nerf one more thing i use regularly im gonna hunt down every ccp developer and make them eat twinkies until they throw up! I let my sniper rifle bullet to your face do all the talking :P
Regnier Feros Tokyo Ravens Anime Empire. 84	Posted - 2014.07.25 11:55:00 - [18] - Quote Sir would you like some pie? It's really GOOD! I like pie do you like pie because i hate pie & I like muffins.
Leanna Boghin Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2014.07.25 12:05:00 - [19] - Quote Regnier Feros wrote: Sir would you like some pie? It's really GOOD! no pie is yucky and it smells funny (and btw are you the real feros or the fake feros?) I let my sniper rifle bullet to your face do all the talking :P
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 44	Posted - 2014.07.25 12:23:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. You wouldn't know balance if you had to depend on it to live.

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3136	Posted - 2014.07.25 12:44:00 - [21] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. Has never been achieved in any game aside from rock paper scissors. And that isn't a very fun game. Even chess is unbalanced because one player goes first. How does that make chess unbalanced, you aren't given a greater number of moves over your opponent, furthermore pretty much every move you can make has a direct counter. You as an opponent has no better pieces than the other. And to be honest, balance doesn't help a game. It destroys it. Imbalance is what creates situations that force players to develop new meta, leading to a counters, strategies, and emergent gameplay. What? So when everything is balanced you believe there will be no meta game? Instead of it becoming 'how do we counter the FOTM' a balanced game becomes 'what do we need and where do we need them in order to win this match' Perfect balance simply creates a game where you go through the same motions over and over again with nothing new to devise or create. It is something lesser skilled players yearn for. Or balance creates a game more interesting than just 16 players running the strongest gear and carving through crowds of people, it becomes a game where tactics, teamplay and intelligence win out over brute force. You don't want to be known as a lesser skilled player, do you? If it creates a better game, with more ACTUAL skill and intelligence, I don't care how Im known. The question is do you want to be known as a scrub because you purposefully want to maintain a FOTM to follow? Only lesser skilled players are afraid of game where you have to use something more than better gear. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
MythTanker Haus of Triage 148	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:10:00 - [22] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Ccp you should be taking these posts with a grain of salt. Whenever i see 1 of these op posts its either from a scout of a heavy, etc. trying to nerf their counter. Its making everything equally weak and boring thats why we lost all these vehicles.Just look at other game designers they dont cbange their game after some op threads.I suggest you watch some of your old presentations and get back to your roots.This is a great game but the nerfs and buffs are getting excessive. Actually Real Heavies and Scouts dont QQ its FOTM chasers and Noobs, Look at all the anti heavy threads by FOTM scouts. and the FOTM heavies who complain about Hotfix charlie. The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 127	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:26:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. Itll only be balanced when people stop saying things are op. Its an endless cycle.What would be an absolute balanced game to you? Well, When every item has to make a proportionate sacrifice for each gain. When every weapon has a TTK involving a reasonable tradeoff between range and DPS. When every role is perfectly viable, with none being completely superior than the other. When every weapon is perfectly viable, and all perform reasonably well within it's intended niche. When every item has a purpose, and a use in a preferred situation. When every tactic/item has a reasonably successful counter barring itself. When no Dropsuit can fit both PRO Modules & PRO Weaponry without sacrifices. WP/D Matchmaking That's a perfectly balanced game. He will be happy when this game is just as bad as CoD
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10927	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:42:00 - [24] - Quote DontChimpOut wrote: Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. You wouldn't know balance if you had to depend on it to live. Said Spkr4TheDead. And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10927	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:43:00 - [25] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: He will be happy when this game is just as bad as CoD And how does any of that relate to CoD? And nothing of value was lost that day... -HAND
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 127	Posted - 2014.07.25 19:41:00 - [26] - Quote Atiim wrote: 843-Vika wrote: He will be happy when this game is just as bad as CoD And how does any of that relate to CoD? Because most of the QQes came for games like CoD where its a twitch shooter and its usually " i shot you first so you die first " and they have no skill or gun game, so they cry that stuff is OP or become FoTM chasers. I will admit that there have been times when there have been things in game that were broken and needed to be fixed but not as much as twitch shooters cry and whine about
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2014.07.25 20:22:00 - [27] - Quote MythTanker wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Ccp you should be taking these posts with a grain of salt. Whenever i see 1 of these op posts its either from a scout of a heavy, etc. trying to nerf their counter. Its making everything equally weak and boring thats why we lost all these vehicles.Just look at other game designers they dont cbange their game after some op threads.I suggest you watch some of your old presentations and get back to your roots.This is a great game but the nerfs and buffs are getting excessive. Actually Real Heavies and Scouts dont QQ its FOTM chasers and Noobs, Look at all the anti heavy threads by FOTM scouts. and the FOTM heavies who complain about Hotfix charlie. Yeah thats why us heavies are getting this nerf because all the threads saying were op, the qq`ers won.Now the heavies are going to be making op scout posts in spite. Ive been heavy day 1 and i agree were op in cqc, long range ill down a heavy fast with any weapon.
Abraham Baby Fish LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 23	Posted - 2014.07.25 20:26:00 - [28] - Quote Another inteligent person in the forums. Proudly a baby fish and a caldari loyalist. Sentinel ck.0, Scout ck.0. Either my sentinel is dead. i like burritos.
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2361	Posted - 2014.07.25 20:41:00 - [29] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Atiim wrote: When the game becomes perfectly balanced, then sure. Itll only be balanced when people stop saying things are op. Its an endless cycle.What would be an absolute balanced game to you? One where no matter what gear or tactic you did it with, you were always pitted against similarly lethal players. K/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. It even fixes WP/D(r). Beh!
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2014.07.25 21:06:00 - [30] - Quote Ive been looking through the forums and now the new thing is dropships are op.Man dropships are the easiest thing to kill in this game.



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