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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
113
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Posted - 2014.07.22 18:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why are we stuck in this endless nerf-buff cycle for weapons when when the drop suits are not even balanced properly as of yet?
99% of the nerfs and buffs to weapons could have been avoided if the drop suits were balanced correctly in the first place.
I personally believe that the drop suits were best in closed and open beta before they added they racial suits, there were 2 of every class but 1 type to choose from.
All the drop suits has a shield and armor type i.e Assault C-1 and assault C-2
The difference between the 2 was that the shield type had a slightly different slot lay out then the armor type. They were the most balanced drop suits in the game.
With the addition of the weapons that focus on more damage to shields or to armor, the original beta suits would be a much better option then having 4 different suits for each class and having to try and balance each suit, but the problem is that when you change something about 1 type of suit then it either becomes to weak or to string against all the other suits.
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Michael Arck
4941
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Posted - 2014.07.22 18:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
When you started playing? Weapons and dropsuits have both been in the cycle. I would love to move on from the topic but I guess theres nothing else to discuss
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2450
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Posted - 2014.07.22 18:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
I totally disagree. Some of the weapons were so ridiculously stronger than others making others completely obsolete. Simply adding more suit variants would not have solved this problem.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
113
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Posted - 2014.07.22 18:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I totally disagree. Some of the weapons were so ridiculously stronger than others making others completely obsolete. Simply adding more suit variants would not have solved this problem.
See what i was trying to say was that if the dropsuits never changed from the beta suits then the weapons wouldn't have been OP.
Back then the suit roles were more defined then they ever were after the racial suits were added.
Do were really need 4 different assault, 4 different logi, 4 different scout, 4 different sentinel suits, especially when half of them are not used either because they are the weaker ones or the passive skills are not what they want?
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
113
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Posted - 2014.07.22 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:When you started playing? Weapons and dropsuits have both been in the cycle. I would love to move on from the topic but I guess theres nothing else to discuss
Didn't you notice the closed beta drop suit reference.....or did you not know that in closed and open beta there were only 8 different suits, cal assault, min logi, gal scout and ammar heavy....each had a shield and armor type, i.e Cal Assault C-1 and Cal Assault C-2. Slightly different HP and mod slots for the people that like to shield tank or the people that liked to armor tank.
I started playing dust durning week 1 of closed beta......before most of you even knew that DUST 514 even existed |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
3089
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Posted - 2014.07.22 18:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
So you want less content in a game already sparse on content...
Now this isnt saying the suits are unbalanced by why anyone would want to go back to the days of each race only having one role is beyond me |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2451
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I totally disagree. Some of the weapons were so ridiculously stronger than others making others completely obsolete. Simply adding more suit variants would not have solved this problem. See what i was trying to say was that if the dropsuits never changed from the beta suits then the weapons wouldn't have been OP. Back then the suit roles were more defined then they ever were after the racial suits were added. Do were really need 4 different assault, 4 different logi, 4 different scout, 4 different sentinel suits, especially when half of them are not used either because they are the weaker ones or the passive skills are not what they want?
Yes, we do need 4 of each because that racial variety is part of what makes New Eden interesting. You do realize that the Type I and Type II suits were meant to be quick placeholders for racial variants right? If the Type I Assault was the 'Shield' assault, that was the original Caldari Assault. The Type II, or the 'Armor Assault' was more armor focused with different slot layout, that was the placeholder for the initial iteration of the Gallente Assault, just reusing the same art assets. So really whats the difference? Should we just make all Assaults look like Caldari and call them Type I, II, III, and IV? The effect would be very similar to beta.
Racial variants allow for more specific playstyles within that role. I for example like to run Plasma Cannons so I use a Gallente Commando, but someone who prefers a faster suit with a Mass Driver would use a Minmatar Commando. Proper balance should make all suits viable and worth using to fit specific playstyles. For example recent proposal for Hotfix Charlie is trying to make the Amarr and Minmatar Scout perform on par with the Caldari and Gallente by doing some rebalance work.
Taking options out of the player's hands just because those options are poorly balanced and not as viable, is just lazy.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
113
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:So you want less content in a game already sparse on content...
Now this isnt saying the suits are unbalanced by why anyone would want to go back to the days of each race only having one role is beyond me
What i want is the content we have to be more balanced then it is.
And if think the game has sparse content in it then i think you need go look up what sparse means.
with 8 different suit for each race and the almost every type of weapon for each race along with all the modules and equipment, tank LAVS, ADS and modules and equipment for them. How can you even talk but sparse content, tbh i really believe that its all the content that's in the game that unbalances it.
32 different drop suit ( not counting militia suits ) how can that ever get balanced properly? |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2452
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Delta 749 wrote:So you want less content in a game already sparse on content...
Now this isnt saying the suits are unbalanced by why anyone would want to go back to the days of each race only having one role is beyond me What i want is the content we have to be more balanced then it is. And if think the game has sparse content in it then i think you need go look up what sparse means. with 8 different suit for each race and the almost every type of weapon for each race along with all the modules and equipment, tank LAVS, ADS and modules and equipment for them. How can you even talk but sparse content, tbh i really believe that its all the content that's in the game that unbalances it. 32 different drop suit ( not counting militia suits ) how can that ever get balanced properly?
I mean hell compared to EVE, Dust IS sparse. In EVE you've got your Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, Battleships. 4 Races, and each race probably has 2-3 of each so thats like 60 ships not even counting Tech-II, Pirate, Faction, Industry, or Capital class ships.
http://gogela.com/eve/ That should be a complete list of all EVE ships.
The point being, balance is an ongoing process, and will likely never end. You can give players options and while it may not make balance EASY, it doesn't mean its not worth striving for constantly. Lots of options doesnt mean impossible to balance.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
663
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP should just make the gear the way that they imagine it. Give the gear whatever stats they want.
Everything else will work itself out on the battlefield.
Enough with the nancing!
A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.
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Onesimus Tarsus
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
2345
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
KDR matchmaking fixes this. It might even cure halitosis.
K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Beh!
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2452
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:KDR matchmaking fixes this. It might even cure halitosis.
How does that factor Logis in?
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
603
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Things may have been better according to you, but they weren't balanced there just wasn't anything to choose from. Now that we are closer to racial parity, certain glaring flaws are more evident with certain combat philosophies. As for suit balance vs weapon balance, competitive gaming has time and again shown that there will be certain things that are more widely used and therefore considered better based on what is the most easily adaptable to a larger number of situations, IE: OP. Once you implement statistics that are different some playstyles will pull away from the pack, and then get nerfed etc. That's the way of 99% of competitive games that stay around long enough to even have a cycle.
Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
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Onesimus Tarsus
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
2345
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:KDR matchmaking fixes this. It might even cure halitosis. How does that factor Logis in?
Logis don't operate in a vacuum.
K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Beh!
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RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
282
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
843-Vika wrote: Do were really need 4 different assault, 4 different logi, 4 different scout, 4 different sentinel suits, especially when half of them are not used either because they are the weaker ones or the passive skills are not what they want?
Yes, because someone out there uses one of those suits you call weaker |
RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
282
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:KDR matchmaking fixes this. It might even cure halitosis. How does that factor Logis in?
It doesn't and he keeps tap dancing around the question when people pose it. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2452
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:KDR matchmaking fixes this. It might even cure halitosis. How does that factor Logis in? Logis don't operate in a vacuum.
What does that even mean?
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Forlorn Destrier
Havok Dynasty
2732
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Why are we stuck in this endless nerf-buff cycle for weapons when when the drop suits are not even balanced properly as of yet?
99% of the nerfs and buffs to weapons could have been avoided if the drop suits were balanced correctly in the first place.
I personally believe that the drop suits were best in closed and open beta before they added they racial suits, there were 2 of every class but 1 type to choose from.
All the drop suits has a shield and armor type i.e Assault C-1 and assault C-2
The difference between the 2 was that the shield type had a slightly different slot lay out then the armor type. They were the most balanced drop suits in the game.
With the addition of the weapons that focus on more damage to shields or to armor, the original beta suits would be a much better option then having 4 different suits for each class and having to try and balance each suit, but the problem is that when you change something about 1 type of suit then it either becomes to weak or to string against all the other suits.
There was also very very limited weapon choices. You are neglecting this in your post. It is normal that as things get more complex they get, well, complex. I work for a software company - this is the nature of software, games or otherwise.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
115
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
bump
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Onesimus Tarsus
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
2351
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:KDR matchmaking fixes this. It might even cure halitosis. How does that factor Logis in? It doesn't and he keeps tap dancing around the question when people pose it. Show me the all-logi mode, and I'll discuss it then.
K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Beh!
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