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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Cruor Abominare
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
132
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:It's something we want to fix, first was in alpha to get other plates incentivized. I truly believe that the best way is to make hp modules the most expensive to fit and I agree with reducing the kincats/codebreakers and other alternatives dramatically. We already announced some of those in charlie even. we need to buff dmg mods again, to 357 or 468.
The question you really have to ask yourself is, "Is Armor tanking underpowered?". By having damage mods in the high slot you're creating the dynamic that, assuming you actually fix the fitting costs of tank and utility mods, that the highest hp variants should also be the highest damage dealers.
Traditionally in eve damage mods are in the lows because shields are generally less buffer than armour, their actual defense against armor is either out maneuvering and or out damaging armor boats. Hence why both of those modules types are all low slot items.
(before some point points out something stupid like prop mods being midslots those modules are a defacto auto equip on every pvp subcap in the game you don't not fit them and slot layouts are designed to reflect that you must have a pro mod and a tackle mod or no one will use your stupid ship see ship rebalancing on dumb amarr frigate with one midslot)
Now that said shield mechanics in Dust are wildly different than in Eve, it might just be easier for to have them both equip-able on highs and lows. However, even if you leave them as is, as long as you fix fitting cost on modules you'll still largely see them become the defacto high slot on many armor suits even with their lack luster stats. Regardless if you they get moved to low slot only you'll be pretty desperate to find a suitable module for armor tankers to actually want in their highs. |
Cruor Abominare
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
132
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 17:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Cruor Abominare wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:It's something we want to fix, first was in alpha to get other plates incentivized. I truly believe that the best way is to make hp modules the most expensive to fit and I agree with reducing the kincats/codebreakers and other alternatives dramatically. We already announced some of those in charlie even. we need to buff dmg mods again, to 357 or 468. The question you really have to ask yourself is, "Is Armor tanking underpowered?". By having damage mods in the high slot you're creating the dynamic that, assuming you actually fix the fitting costs of tank and utility mods, that the highest hp variants should also be the highest damage dealers. Traditionally in eve damage mods are in the lows because shields are generally less buffer than armour, their actual defense against armor is either out maneuvering and or out damaging armor boats. Hence why both of those modules types are all low slot items. The real question is "are either one of these defenses underpowered by itself" Shield tanking is around where it needs to be and can compete with a traditional armor suit as long as they play the game like either Minmatar or Caldari. Armor tanking is around where it needs to be as long as they play the game like Gallente or Amarr. Also, in EVE fitting Damage Modifiers on Gallente ships, lets say the thorax (because that ship is the perfect rep for the Gallente Assault) Is not that uncommon even though it's in the lows. Armor tanking isn't just slow and fat moving, which I assume you know but most others do not. Gallente Ships in the Attack Class are pretty fast and nimble, with not a huge WTF amount of HP like the average player would think. If they are CQC they are focused on getting in close ASAP dealing a bunch of damage (with damage mods) and out maneuvering them with their repair module on constantly repairing their armor.
See the second half of my comment, shield tanking has been so wildly changed in dust that its still awkward to move them as low slots only without rebuilding the entire shield tank mechanics. I actually support the idea of treating them like tracking computers/enhancers in eve.
We could get into the finer points of eve fitting and why armor still largely sucks in eve too, but it gets a little off topic. On average the name of the game for a shield user is to dictate range and thus dictate damage ratio in a fight even with less low slots the average shield ship is going to devote more slots to enchancers/damage mods than most armor ships because they can.
For lots and lots of reasons Dust doesn't have and won't have without a huge refactoring of game design have the same nuances of eve range/damage paradigms.
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Cruor Abominare
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
132
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 17:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:I have never understood the issue with dual tanking, then again I'm just a squishy Matari trying to support and fight in a heavy and unscannable scout world. Why is it wrong for me to have 300 shields and 300 armor? Nothing, it just gives, scrubs like cat merc who never plays the game, and sucks when he does, something to talk about. Dual tanking is smart for combat. Slows down regen, but so what. That dual tanking is bad crap comes from EVE nerds that think they know anything about fighting. Just keep building your suit the way you want and **** on these scrubs. Or join me on Destiny beta in a few minutes and forget about it.
Dual tanking in eve is bad because you can't fit dual tanks. You'll simply end up with a ****** tank across the board because of how they're budgeted in fitting costs. Its one of the ways dust is backwards, utility modules like kin cats are insanely costed and tank modules are dirt cheap to fit.
So in eve you pick one tank often based on a number of factors in stick with it looking to maximize the benefits and nature of that tank. In dust you just stack HP because benefit per pg/cpu insanely favors stacking it. |
Cruor Abominare
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
132
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 18:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:I have never understood the issue with dual tanking, then again I'm just a squishy Matari trying to support and fight in a heavy and unscannable scout world. Why is it wrong for me to have 300 shields and 300 armor? Lore. EVE lore was developed to define the racial combat philosophies. The only race that should be dual tanking is the Minmatar. If dust was based on just EVE lore then min would have the passive armor reps instead of gal
But you'd still shield tank the the minmatar ship because the weapons platform was so much better for that. |
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