DUST Search - Caldari Heavy Weapon Proposal

Argetlam Thorson wrote:

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

I guess it is basically a bigger, badder Mass Driver, but I'm not sure which race "claims" the mass driver.

That would be Minmitar.

Minmitar=Projectile/Explosive-----------Rust Colored
Caldari=Missiles/Rail tech---------------Gray Colored
Gallente=Plasma (Blaster)---------------Green colored
Amarr=Lasers------------------------------- Gold/Red Colored

This is how you can tell what race a weapon/vehicle is outside of looking at the shape. The other thing to be considered is the damage profile of each race. Gallente and Amarr armor tank and have weapons meant for taking down shields. Caldari and Minmitar shield tank (although, Minmitar can dual tank sometimes) and they have weapons meant for chewing through armor.

So, this will need to be taken into account when thinking of new weapons for each race. I personally feel that a Mass Driver scaled up to a Heavy weapon would either be OP or mostly useless, which is why I was thinking maybe an RE launcher for the Matari. Single round mag, same weapon/flight mechanics as the PLC, but it sticks RE's were it lands. These RE's can then be exploded all at once.

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Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 462	Posted - 2014.07.16 02:43:00 - [1] - Quote Before you start, yes, I know the chances of this happening are somewhere between a snowball's chance in hell and less than 1%. However, Rattati said there IS a possibility we could get the full compliment of weapons before end of life, and, if not, Legion likely WILL have the full compliment (we would hope). With that being said, I think I've come up with a legitimate proposal for the Caldari Heavy weapon since we don't have one and we need one. Introducing: .... The EMP Rifle Based on the design and format of the Caldari Rail Rifle, the EMP rifle gives heavies a long range alternative to the HMG while still being a "rapid" fire weapon. If fires an electromagnetic blast through the air. As a Hybrid Weapon, the EMP Rifle has a +10% damage bonus to shields, and a -10% damage penalty to armor. Variations include a single shot and automatic version. The single version has no charge up time, as it stays in a "precharged" mode, while the automatic version has a slight charge up to prepare for firing. It has solid alpha damage and I believe it is a good middle ground between the two current heavy weapons available. The overall damage output is lower than an HMG by about 15000 DPS / minute (475 DPS vs 720 DPS) but the EMP rifle has longer range, in keeping with Caldari weaponry. It also has less range than a standard light Rail Rifle due to the larger rounds. This is exchanged for more damage dealt per round. Basic EMP Rifle (single shot) Damage - 220 HP RoF - 130 (approximately .46 seconds/shot) Optimal Range(100%) - 55 Effective Range(30%) - 90 Absolute Range(10%) - 200 Magazine Size - 47 Carried Ammo - 705 (15 Magazines) Reload Speed - 3.5 seconds Charge Up Time - 0.0 seconds Accuracy Rating - 57.00 ( I don't know why, I don't know what this means. this is slightly lower than a Standard rail rifle so slightly less accurate is what I'm going for) CPU - 45 PG - 6 ISK - 3000 Now to discus the Automatic variant of the EMP rifle. The Automatic variant has a higher rate of fire, but each round does less damage. These rifles are not able to "precharge" so they require a "charge up" time, similar to the Rail Rifle it is based off. Automatic EMP Rifle Damage - 155 RoF - 184 (approximately .32 seconds/shot) Optimal Range(100%) - 55 Effective Range(30%) - 90 Absolute Range(10%) - 200 Magazine Size - 47 Carried Ammo - 705 (15 Magazines) Reload Speed - 3.5 seconds Charge Up Time - 0.4 seconds Accuracy Rating - 57.00 ( I don't know why, I don't know what this means) CPU - 45 PG - 6 ISK - 3000 The overall DPS/minute is nearly identical than the single shot variant of this weapon. (within 100 HP). However, it has the benefit of being able to simply hold down the trigger while firing instead of having to pull it for every shot. Some may see the ROF as a negative with this weapon. The nearly 1/3 second time in between shots forces the shooter to use skill because of the movement capabilities of the enemy. It isn't simply a bigger, badder version of the Rail Rifle. It is a tactical decision allowing Sentinels and Heavies options and different possibilities on the battlefield. Please discuss and any feedback/suggestions would be welcome. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2922	Posted - 2014.07.16 03:41:00 - [2] - Quote Forge Gun is Caldari. My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15930	Posted - 2014.07.16 03:48:00 - [3] - Quote I rather see amarr and gallente first before we get the 'other' role for all races. Also possibly new roles as well. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1405	Posted - 2014.07.16 03:50:00 - [4] - Quote Hmm...as a counterproposal, I present a heavy AV weapon, I think Ill call the Forge Gun!!! Im thinking that you can charge it and then it shoots a huge blue ball that does a lot of damage to tanks "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11899	Posted - 2014.07.16 04:00:00 - [5] - Quote Caldari don't do EM damage in great quantities. The Amarr do however. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 439	Posted - 2014.07.16 04:12:00 - [6] - Quote I was hoping for some kind of missile spewing monster that was anti infantry
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11915	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:00:00 - [7] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: I was hoping for some kind of missile spewing monster that was anti infantry Give me an Amarrian Hull and I'll make you a Khanid tank the likes of which you have never seen! "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 462	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:09:00 - [8] - Quote O.K., so I will admit, my knowledge of EVE history and weaponry isn't perfect. I figured the Forge was Amarr due to the High Alpha Damage, so my apologies to all! I will do a rework as an Amarr weapon (I've already got a couple ideas on it). However, for the sake of this discussion, what about the actual STATS of this weapon? Instead of just getting lambasted for not know which races have which weapons. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 502	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:02:00 - [9] - Quote Might be worth either higher DPS or range; right now it'll get killed by an AR at 50m what with strafe speeds and hitboxes on top of AR having flat out more DPS. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 462	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:33:00 - [10] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Might be worth either higher DPS or range; right now it'll get killed by an AR at 50m what with strafe speeds and hitboxes on top of AR having flat out more DPS. I tried to make in on par distance wise with a RR, but slightly lower due to heavier bullets. As for the assault rifle comparison, the Balacs is the only AR with more DPS than my original base information (495). However, it is a solid point. This is a Heavy Weapon so SHOULD do more damage. I'm worried about giving it too much distance as well, though. Optimal range on the AR is only 50 Meters, slightly lower than the Optimal range I stated. I don't want it to outrange AND out-DPS everything else on the battlefield. That just makes it OP and everyone will be using it. Remember, this is just a basic variant. The Assault versions will have a longer range, and if the overall DPS is TOO much higher, it will just be ridiculous. So I think the ranges are right about where they should be. Maybe a few meters buff, but I think going to much more would be too much. For DPS, are you thinking increase in Alpha Damage or ROF? I originally was going to have the alpha damage higher (Single shot around 300 and Burst around 230), but I was worried about scouts complaining that it can 1 shot them and it is OP. What about upping ROF to 184 for the basic and 261 for the Auto? That gives it almost exactly 200 DPS more than before (675) while still being lower than the HMG, which should have a higher DPS due to it's limited range. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.

Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:48:00 - [11] - Quote I still think the Amarr heavy weapon should be essentially a giant scrambler rifle or laser rifle. New, original concept? Not really, but if you fiddled with the stats to make it more an AV weapon than an AI one, it could be cool. For Gallente, we need a man portable blaster (think somewhere around small blaster turret), which would be an AI weapon, of course. If we got these, I think your idea is the start of a whole new set of heavy weapons. It would be great if we had one AV and one AI weapon for each race. Gallente AV-Heavy Plasma Launcher (Slower traveling, more damage) AI-Heavy Blaster Gun (Basically the Gallente knockoff HMG) Amarr AV-Giant Laser Rifle AI-Giant Scrambler Rifle (could be swapped with each other) Caldari AV-Forge Gun AI-Your concept Heavy Rail Rifle Minmitar AV-Sticky RE Launcher? AI-HMG Just some ideas I had. CPM1 Candidate Youtube
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 462	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:06:00 - [12] - Quote Argetlam Thorson wrote: I still think the Amarr heavy weapon should be essentially a giant scrambler rifle or laser rifle. New, original concept? Not really, but if you fiddled with the stats to make it more an AV weapon than an AI one, it could be cool. For Gallente, we need a man portable blaster (think somewhere around small blaster turret), which would be an AI weapon, of course. If we got these, I think your idea is the start of a whole new set of heavy weapons. It would be great if we had one AV and one AI weapon for each race. Gallente AV-Heavy Plasma Launcher (Slower traveling, more damage) AI-Heavy Blaster Gun (Basically the Gallente knockoff HMG) Amarr AV-Giant Laser Rifle AI-Giant Scrambler Rifle (could be swapped with each other) Caldari AV-Forge Gun AI-Your concept Heavy Rail Rifle Minmitar AV-Sticky RE Launcher? AI-HMG Just some ideas I had. That was essentially the thought process I had for Amarrian; a giant Scrambler Rifle. More DPS but a longer heat build up. If it does go, it gives severe feedback. Reading through your list, I think you are onto something. However, for Gallente AI, I had worked up something along the lines of a US Military MK-19. It is basically an automatic grenade launcher that can shoot about 200 RPM, with direct hit and splash damage. I guess it is basically a bigger, badder Mass Driver, but I'm not sure which race "claims" the mass driver. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA The DOT MAFIA 43	Posted - 2014.07.17 06:14:00 - [13] - Quote Caldari shielded heavies deserve an M240 Bravo type HMG- but scifi rail tech, big rounds goin down range...oh ya, come get some!
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:39:00 - [14] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: I guess it is basically a bigger, badder Mass Driver, but I'm not sure which race "claims" the mass driver. That would be Minmitar. Minmitar=Projectile/Explosive-----------Rust Colored Caldari=Missiles/Rail tech---------------Gray Colored Gallente=Plasma (Blaster)---------------Green colored Amarr=Lasers------------------------------- Gold/Red Colored This is how you can tell what race a weapon/vehicle is outside of looking at the shape. The other thing to be considered is the damage profile of each race. Gallente and Amarr armor tank and have weapons meant for taking down shields. Caldari and Minmitar shield tank (although, Minmitar can dual tank sometimes) and they have weapons meant for chewing through armor. So, this will need to be taken into account when thinking of new weapons for each race. I personally feel that a Mass Driver scaled up to a Heavy weapon would either be OP or mostly useless, which is why I was thinking maybe an RE launcher for the Matari. Single round mag, same weapon/flight mechanics as the PLC, but it sticks RE's were it lands. These RE's can then be exploded all at once. CPM1 Candidate Youtube
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3608	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:55:00 - [15] - Quote Didn't they mention something about a missile based Caldari Heavy AV weapon? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 463	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:55:00 - [16] - Quote Argetlam Thorson wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: I guess it is basically a bigger, badder Mass Driver, but I'm not sure which race "claims" the mass driver. That would be Minmitar. Minmitar=Projectile/Explosive-----------Rust Colored Caldari=Missiles/Rail tech---------------Gray Colored Gallente=Plasma (Blaster)---------------Green colored Amarr=Lasers------------------------------- Gold/Red Colored This is how you can tell what race a weapon/vehicle is outside of looking at the shape. The other thing to be considered is the damage profile of each race. Gallente and Amarr armor tank and have weapons meant for taking down shields. Caldari and Minmitar shield tank (although, Minmitar can dual tank sometimes) and they have weapons meant for chewing through armor. So, this will need to be taken into account when thinking of new weapons for each race. I personally feel that a Mass Driver scaled up to a Heavy weapon would either be OP or mostly useless, which is why I was thinking maybe an RE launcher for the Matari. Single round mag, same weapon/flight mechanics as the PLC, but it sticks RE's were it lands. These RE's can then be exploded all at once. THANK YOU!!!!! That is what I've always tried to figure out. I looked on the Dust wiki and around here but I've never found any definitive explanation of what "belongs" to which race. Yeah, a Mass Driver on steroids definitely has the potential of being OP so there would have to be some sort of a balance to it. Your "sticky" RE weapon is interesting. I could also see how some people would use it as an Anti-Infantry weapon. Throw like 5 or 6 out towards and objective and blow them all at once. Your single round mag idea would be almost a necessity. Maybe give it a 2 round mag but a 5-6 second load up in between. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 463	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:58:00 - [17] - Quote The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA wrote: Caldari shielded heavies deserve an M240 Bravo type HMG- but scifi rail tech, big rounds goin down range...oh ya, come get some! Yeah, a 240B or a M2 50 cal would be sweet as hell :) This is essentially a 240B with rail tech. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 719	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:07:00 - [18] - Quote Heavy weapons, no matter what race or design MUST fulfill a specific niche. If they don't you'll just have high eHP suits with versatile high dps weapons. Imagine RR heavies times two. Keep this in mind when thinking about new designs. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 463	Posted - 2014.07.17 22:12:00 - [19] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Heavy weapons, no matter what race or design MUST fulfill a specific niche. If they don't you'll just have high eHP suits with versatile high dps weapons. Imagine RR heavies times two. Keep this in mind when thinking about new designs. I guess I don't see the problem with versatile high DPS weapons. In fact, that was the entire purpose of this idea. This heavy version I thought up is a high Alpha damage low ROF with more distance. Right now, there is no weapon that fills that niche. A forge is not a reliable anti infantry weapon (yes, I know there are people who are able to rock it but it's not widespread) and an HMG is only decent up to about 40-50 meters. Sentinels need something to bridge the gap between these two firearms, hence the firearm I came up with. It has a lower overall DPS and much lower ROF than an HMG. Those are sacrificed for Alpha damage and range. In fact, the actual overall DPS of this weapon really isn't THAT much greater than most light weapons and is much less powerful than a scrambler rifle for pure DPS with the trigger down. It simply does more damage per shot if it lands. Right now outside of the Mass Driver, there isn't really a mid level ROF high Alpha damage weapon. It is either pure alpha or pure ROF. Why not have something to bridge the gap? Thanks for the feedback and if you have any other thoughts, please throw them out there. I'm looking for all kinds of feedback on this. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.


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