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Shotguns, Racially impartial.

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dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 59	Posted - 2014.07.13 02:23:00 - [1] - Quote Hello CCP and Dust Community so I had this idea running around in my head for a while and I never had the time to say anything about it till now so here it is: Racial Shotguns. The Gallente have their shotgun, their assault rifle, their blasters, their tanks, their LAVs, they have it all. All the other races hae weapons as well that Gallente do not but still, if we are to reach racial partialty we need to start with the little things. A shotgun for each race would be easy to do, and would be great to see for many reasons. These reasons being the shotgun has been the most feared weapon in the game, making the Gallente feared as well by adding a shotgun for each race they would all reach the same level of fear among the players. As for blance it would be great, the current shotgun does more damage to shields like it should, but a Minmatar or Calidari shotgun would do armor damage, I will regret saying this later being I am one, this would make it easier for shotguners using these two races shotguns to cut down Gallente heavies. As for Amarians they would do more shield damage Like the gallente. As for racial bonuses for the suits I am undecided between having damage bonuses or spray reduction bonuses or reload bonuses. CCP I will leave that to you. Be a number, or don't be here at all.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 36	Posted - 2014.07.13 02:35:00 - [2] - Quote So ccp was racist with the shotty? Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.13 12:36:00 - [3] - Quote In a way yes, but i am not meaning that at all, i am assuming it was just an honest mistake in the haste of building the game. Be a number, or don't be here at all.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 442	Posted - 2014.07.13 12:46:00 - [4] - Quote Or racial sniper rifles, or racial vehicles, or more than three weapons for Amarr. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Brotherband REMNANT ENFORCERS 17	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:01:00 - [5] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Or racial sniper rifles, or racial vehicles, or more than three weapons for Amarr. Yes please. Am I the only one who still uses the ion pistol
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.14 02:58:00 - [6] - Quote All the others we can do without just fine at this moment, but they way cloakers run and kill at their merry wish with their shotguns, the implementation of the racial shotguns would mean that certain heavys would withstand damage from other shotguns, along with assaults, no more one shot insta kills. Be a number, or don't be here at all.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11824	Posted - 2014.07.14 03:06:00 - [7] - Quote dman the great wrote: All the others we can do without just fine at this moment, but they way cloakers run and kill at their merry wish with their shotguns, the implementation of the racial shotguns would mean that certain heavys would withstand damage from other shotguns, along with assaults, no more one shot insta kills. Lolshotgun...... Such importance....... such need have....... NAH Vehicles bro. "I guess this is goodbye for now Little One. This is how you will become one of us, one of the Amarr." - Kador Ouryon
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.14 15:59:00 - [8] - Quote Dude, you want another 1.8 alpha? tanks invulnerable and LAV's destroyed by rail rifles. I am sure allot of us do not, but I am speaking for the ground troops solely, no vehicles should have been mentioned here anyway but somehow they did... anyway from the ground troops point of view the shotgun cloakers were a bit of a problem for a while, still are for some. these shotguns would mean less chances of being the heay to get hit with his bane weapon. As for vehicles we just got a vehicle rebalance, we do not need more vehicles added right now that way we have to go through a vehicle balance ALL over again. Be a number, or don't be here at all.
Man of Spade Nos Nothi 361	Posted - 2014.07.14 16:07:00 - [9] - Quote Honestly I'd rather racial light AV first, just to have all the damage profiles against vehicles instead of two. Totally not Spademan. That guy is a real jackass. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 682	Posted - 2014.07.14 16:11:00 - [10] - Quote do we really need 4 races version of a shotgun? no so why?

headbust SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 64	Posted - 2014.07.14 20:05:00 - [11] - Quote the shotty is a type of special weapon if u will. gallente = shotgun minimatar = mass driver amarr = laser rifle caldari = sniper rifle a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11835	Posted - 2014.07.14 20:12:00 - [12] - Quote headbust wrote: the shotty is a type of special weapon if u will. gallente = shotgun minimatar = mass driver amarr = laser rifle caldari = sniper rifle That's a bloody cop out. "I guess this is goodbye for now Little One. This is how you will become one of us, one of the Amarr." - Kador Ouryon
captain erection RhymeSayers 4	Posted - 2014.07.14 20:16:00 - [13] - Quote do you guys believe that a racial shotgun will stop this game from being pulled with in the following year?
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 47	Posted - 2014.07.14 20:17:00 - [14] - Quote its good as it is. no need for racial shotguns SPAWN.KILL.DIE.RESPAWN.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11835	Posted - 2014.07.14 20:31:00 - [15] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: its good as it is. no need for racial shotguns Racial parity however is an imperative. You cannot balance or maintain any semblance of balance without the parity required to compare X to Y while Z is present. "I guess this is goodbye for now Little One. This is how you will become one of us, one of the Amarr." - Kador Ouryon
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2332	Posted - 2014.07.14 22:27:00 - [16] - Quote The shotgun is distinctively the paradigm of what a Blaster is. Extremely Short range. Extremely High DPS. If anything the shotgun is THE Gallente weapon because that's what makes sense given their racial theme, which is close range brawler with very high damage output. I don't think people particularly care about the race of the gun, they care about how it performs, and it does exactly what its designed to do...**** anything that gets within range. Different damage types would make a difference, but the base burst DPS is so high that it really doesn't matter. Pretty much any suit will die in 1-2 hits, heavies are typically 2-3. Adding 10-20% more damage isn't enough to change that time to kill. So really then you're just trying to play with the range, well again the Shotgun is distinctively Gallente and haves like blasters SHOULD. You want a pseudo Caldari shotgun? Use the Breach Shotgun. I'm all for options, but as others have pointed out, adding more shotguns to the game wont improve the game that much, and there are other things that could be added that would do so much more. The Amarr in particular are rather lacking in options, but a shotgun doesn't really fit their racial theme anyways. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 295	Posted - 2014.07.15 01:30:00 - [17] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: its good as it is. no need for racial shotguns Racial parity however is an imperative. You cannot balance or maintain any semblance of balance without the parity required to compare X to Y while Z is present. Hmm. Racial parity doesn't necessarily mean that every race needs to have their own version of every type of weapon. In that case where do you draw the line? Racial parity for the equipment also? And the dropsuit modules? Too confusing, and a nightmare for balancing! There should also be a decent lore based reason for the racial assets in the game. For most things racial parity is important. But some things the opposite is true. Based on this I just don't see a reason for a Amarr or Caldari version of a shotgun. However, I think a Minmatar shotgun is valid, and can obviously be armour focused in its damage profile. Desperate attempt to get BPOs
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:20:00 - [18] - Quote Ok, fine so then, more new guns, more new rebalances, more new vehicles more new rebalances, more new suits, more new rebalances, we have gone through this a hundred times now. Is what I am trying to avoid by going into the shotgun or specific weapon department is simple. skip the bs of more rebalances. and plus if the shotgun is the gallente massdriver. then what is the plasma cannon? and don't say anti-vehicle because sure yes it does damage them but it also does better against infantry making it an infantry v infantry weapon with side damage to vehicles like the massdriver. thats another thing, we need more AV gear, the forge gun only kills if you have proto or more than one cannon, and partially killed vehicles do not count on this scale, to kill an assault dropship or a dropship is very hard with swarms, they hear one volley "Oh here they come better switch on my booster" and they are out of your range or they have outraced your missles. Back to shotgun, is what I meant to spur up in general was racial partiality in all areas already in the game that will not need a thousand reballances in the future. We already see where that has gotten us. Be a number, or don't be here at all.
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:23:00 - [19] - Quote plus I notice allot of people coming in here with bias Ideas. Be a number, or don't be here at all.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11854	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:25:00 - [20] - Quote sabre prime wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: its good as it is. no need for racial shotguns Racial parity however is an imperative. You cannot balance or maintain any semblance of balance without the parity required to compare X to Y while Z is present. Hmm. Racial parity doesn't necessarily mean that every race needs to have their own version of every type of weapon. In that case where do you draw the line? Racial parity for the equipment also? And the dropsuit modules? Too confusing, and a nightmare for balancing! There should also be a decent lore based reason for the racial assets in the game. For most things racial parity is important. But some things the opposite is true. Based on this I just don't see a reason for a Amarr or Caldari version of a shotgun. However, I think a Minmatar shotgun is valid, and can obviously be armour focused in its damage profile. Thats debatable since every racial group in New Eden is likely to develop and manufacture their own variation of weapon types as all races make use of more that just their attributed and presented type. E.G- Amarr use Projectile weapons, Missiles, and Drone Gallente and Caldari use Blasters and Railguns "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3445	Posted - 2014.07.15 05:18:00 - [21] - Quote I'd rather each race have a specialty weapon that no other race has. Amarr Laser Rifle, Caldari Sniper Rifle, Gallente Shotgun, Minmatar Mass Driver. "Full racial parity" was once upon a time a goal for the game- until Rouge came in and said "**** it, let's just move to PC" and there certainly were conceptual ideas for the specialty weapons to have racial variants, but this is one of those things I'm glad they never got around to. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Personal Theme Song
Ace Mercenary The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 5	Posted - 2014.07.15 10:28:00 - [22] - Quote so you want racial everything No. It'll ruin the game.
headbust SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 69	Posted - 2014.07.15 12:51:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: headbust wrote: the shotty is a type of special weapon if u will. gallente = shotgun minimatar = mass driver amarr = laser rifle caldari = sniper rifle That's a bloody cop out. im not sure wat that means lol a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
headbust SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 69	Posted - 2014.07.15 12:57:00 - [24] - Quote dman the great wrote: Ok, fine so then, more new guns, more new rebalances, more new vehicles more new rebalances, more new suits, more new rebalances, we have gone through this a hundred times now. Is what I am trying to avoid by going into the shotgun or specific weapon department is simple. skip the bs of more rebalances. and plus if the shotgun is the gallente massdriver. then what is the plasma cannon? and don't say anti-vehicle because sure yes it does damage them but it also does better against infantry making it an infantry v infantry weapon with side damage to vehicles like the massdriver. thats another thing, we need more AV gear, the forge gun only kills if you have proto or more than one cannon, and partially killed vehicles do not count on this scale, to kill an assault dropship or a dropship is very hard with swarms, they hear one volley "Oh here they come better switch on my booster" and they are out of your range or they have outraced your missles. Back to shotgun, is what I meant to spur up in general was racial partiality in all areas already in the game that will not need a thousand reballances in the future. We already see where that has gotten us. the plasma cannon may not be great against vehichles but it does work so its equal to the swarm launcher. the swarm launcher just has to lock on and the PLC does not id say when minmatar and amarr get a light av weapon it probably wont have a lock on neither a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4095	Posted - 2014.07.15 13:26:00 - [25] - Quote CQC weapons: Gallente shotgun Caldari Nova Knives Minmatar RE's Amarr um...wait. Why does the long-range race have the nova knives again? random dude in background "Because they have to charge up first" oh, well anyways... 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2340	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:48:00 - [26] - Quote dman the great wrote: Ok, fine so then, more new guns, more new rebalances, more new vehicles more new rebalances, more new suits, more new rebalances, we have gone through this a hundred times now. Is what I am trying to avoid by going into the shotgun or specific weapon department is simple. skip the bs of more rebalances. and plus if the shotgun is the gallente massdriver. then what is the plasma cannon? and don't say anti-vehicle because sure yes it does damage them but it also does better against infantry making it an infantry v infantry weapon with side damage to vehicles like the massdriver. thats another thing, we need more AV gear, the forge gun only kills if you have proto or more than one cannon, and partially killed vehicles do not count on this scale, to kill an assault dropship or a dropship is very hard with swarms, they hear one volley "Oh here they come better switch on my booster" and they are out of your range or they have outraced your missles. Back to shotgun, is what I meant to spur up in general was racial partiality in all areas already in the game that will not need a thousand reballances in the future. We already see where that has gotten us. Paragraphs man, remember the paragraphs. You're rambling. As for adding new weapons, adding ANYTHING will require re balance. Balancing should be ongoing constantly because the game is changing constantly. People find new and creative ways to take advantage of existing mechanics and that will always cause imbalance, thus needs to be an ongoing process. I mean are you suggesting you just copy all of the stats from the existing shotgun and give it a new damage type? True that would require the least amount of rebalancing, but why would a Caldari Shotgun have the same range as Gallente? Minmatar shotgun would instantly be the best due to the superior damage profile overall. Not to mention its just boring. So either you can make them all the same with different damage types, and it'll be boring, not make sense, and the Minmatar will be best. Or you can take the time to make them perform differently, but then that would require the balancing you seem to be so fervently against. Which one is it? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:59:00 - [27] - Quote Yes I know pokey but sometimes something is too short for paragraphs and just gets a ramble. Now to your question on the racial variants I did have ideas on that but figured we wold start simple on the concept and if nothing caught on then fine. anyway here were my ideas, but still try to keep range damage ect to a minimum re-balance state. Min: Simple short range shotgun like the gallente but with even low percent damage bonuses to both shields and armor, but to lowest possible level. say 1% -2% a level. Projectile weapon with a slightly lower rate of fire than gallente. Cal: Simple medium range small choke shotgun with less damage than the gal but same fire rate. medium bonus to armor damage. Ammar: highly accurate laser based shotgun with smallest possible choke but lowest damage to armor but increased to shields. Back to some stuff said earlier in the post. Some people didn't read all of the posts and ideas given by other people and just stated "Worst idea ever it old completely ruin the game" as I said bias ideas. Then somebody said something about amarr being into projectile weapons and missles and stuff. Close my friend close but I learned a way to tell weapon types: two factions among the four: Red and Blue red consists of amarr and caladari then the blue consists of minmatar and gallente, but each side is equal in armor and shields here is how: Gallente and amarr armor based minmatar and valdari shield based. their weapons work the similarly as well for example: caldari rail guns: fires a small projectile down a long shoot. minmatar: fires a small projectile from a combustion based shell. your projectile twins hence. as for gallente and ammar: Gal assault rifle: blaster weapon that fires small blobs or clusters of liquid metal or energy. ammar scrambler rifle: fires small clusters of energy that confuses the muscles or brain into spasms. Hence plasma twins. (that was a roph idea do not quote later just got back from vacation and still car ersion of jet lagged.) Be a number, or don't be here at all.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4230	Posted - 2014.07.19 06:46:00 - [28] - Quote Shotguns are not a class of weapons in this game. Shotguns are a specialty of the Gallente seeing as how the Gallente are short ranged specialists. Caldari are long range specialists thus their special weapon is the sniper rifle. Having a short ranged Caldari light weapon is basically an oxymoron. Sidearms have the lowest range of all weapons, with the shotgun being the exception, and even then a Magsec has 35 meter range and bolt pistol 40 which basically overlays with the assault rifle range. So even the Gallente Rifle is range matched by a Caldari Sidearm. Having a Caldari light weapon be outranged by Caldari sidearms would not racially fit. Caldari are long ranged based, a shotgun would not fit their idealism. Having racial parity of shotguns is unnecessary because even with the varying damage profiles of races the shotgun inflicts such a high DPS that they'd be irrelevant. Even with the -10% to armor you're going to cut down armor heavy mercs. Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.19 13:34:00 - [29] - Quote call it what you will, scrambler beam scrambler laser what ever you want to call it. As pokey said earlier all the races tend to make a variants of every weapon, as do modern races or authenticity. So shotguns would make sense, along with beam based rifles, sniper rifles, mass drivers (AKA grenade launchers) and so on. I think everybody tends to forget however that all these races went into dark times without electricity or anything once. the went back to stone ages. So really they would have to go through the technological evolutionary path. Is where I am going with this is in modern times people hunt turkey, foul, birds ect. with what weapon...a shotgun so it would make sense for whatever planet they came off of that they at some point invented a shotgun to hunt with, then one for combat, then one that was more advanced than the last, then one that was even more advanced, and so on. The trend would continue as they become closer and closer to the place where dust is. All the races still have created their shotguns and advanced them through the years. and hence they still have their shotguns. As for laser rifles I tend to see them as a flame thrower. A continuous beam of damage that lasts a period of time and as I said earlier evolutionary technological path. We all know what D.Day was, we all know that bunker busters had many forms. one was the flame thrower. Assuming that every race had a civil war at some point in their very distant path or had a war among its distant countries, they may have run into a reason to create their own flame throwers to bust bunkers in these wars. kept the gun going as I said earlier but the amarr made a laser stile accurate version. The calidari could do the same, the minmatar could do the same, and the gallente could create a plasma "hose" to spray plasma continuously in a direction. I am assuming you get the point here. these same things would take place with the sniper rifle and grenade launchers or mass drivers if you want to call them that. In the end racial partiality is natural and needed thing for dust lore, if not in dust then legion. Be a number, or don't be here at all.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3073	Posted - 2014.07.19 16:31:00 - [30] - Quote The Amarr already have the best shotgun in the game :-) You should try out the ScR. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 406	Posted - 2014.07.19 21:49:00 - [31] - Quote headbust wrote: the shotty is a type of special weapon if u will. gallente = shotgun minimatar = mass driver amarr = laser rifle caldari = sniper rifle nope
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 406	Posted - 2014.07.19 22:04:00 - [32] - Quote all race should have area denial weapons Amarr :laser rifle Caldari : BF4 XM25 Airburst Minmatar: Mass driver Gallente: flux mass driver
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2437	Posted - 2014.07.20 04:12:00 - [33] - Quote dman the great wrote: As pokey said earlier all the races tend to make a variants of every weapon, as do modern races or authenticity. So shotguns would make sense, along with beam based rifles, sniper rifles, mass drivers (AKA grenade launchers) and so on. O_o when did I say that? My point is, so you want to add racial shotguns, you've said that they would have different stats. Which means they would been to be balanced against one another yet you say "Oh we cant have other racial weapons or vehicles because we would have to balance them and Im tired of them balancing stuff. So you're ok with adding racial shotguns and balancing them against other weapons, but not ok with the same being done for other aspects of the game? Don't you think that's pretty biased? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4257	Posted - 2014.07.20 05:15:00 - [34] - Quote I'm not disagreeing that lore wise there are probably a version of shotguns in some form or another, maybe only shotguns appear on gallente battlefields, I don't care and know. I'm saying it's unnecessary: Shotguns yield high enough DPS that damage profiles would be extraneous. The extra work to develop models and animations would be very consumptive. Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 368	Posted - 2014.07.20 06:39:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lolshotgun...... Such importance....... such need have....... NAH Vehicles bro. AV weapons i keel you
dman the great OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 60	Posted - 2014.07.21 03:50:00 - [36] - Quote sorry pokey thought it was you, most have been someone else. And Pokey, I wrote this FOR shotguns, do not assume because I refuse to go to another subject that I am against them. I agree that other weapons do need more racial partiality, but the shotgun is the easiest at the moment. they have barely gotten the rail rifle right and they have adjusted it a few times. The shotgun has needed balancing for a while but no one spoke up because they liked the shotgun the way it is because most of us use it, making it easier to balance since EVERYBODY would be worried about how it is doing. (Everybody is globalizing but its also an exaggeration, i mean allot of people, its just faster.) As for the shotguns DPS, obviously they would be lowered slightly to make room for damage bonuses. As for models its not that big a problem. I am not expecting it to go into dust but legion instead and that gives them a year of dust cash-ins to complete models. That is man power and time all in one. As for the final thing I have to say, thank you all sharing some stuff, and thanks pokey for your thoughts, good-luck with cpm. And everybody stay frosty and prepare for legion, that means getting out the old keyboard and mouse. Be a number, or don't be here at all.


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