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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1108
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Posted - 2014.07.11 15:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP as usual drop another bomb on the players, as Logistic changes were not expected this soon.. I had just invested into Min.Logi L5 the day I find out the Logi's are being looked at by CCP....
When CCP address something, the players usually cry out in anguish .. and rightly so at times
But in this scenario is there any real need for players to complain when realistically Logi suits are in need of adjustment if we are to keep aiming for the Unicorn that will balance Dust514.
Logistics > Assault
There is no argument there, Logistics are better combat suits then Assaults. This needs 'fixing' but then the mind-blowing question of How?? there are a few thing to look at
- Heavys and Scouts are Kings of CQC at the moment, leaving mediums in a bad place. - Assaults are not as UP as players claim, buffing them may lead to more 'issues'. - Logistics suits not being required to fill equipment slots (leaving fitting for OPness) - Sidearm? This is blocking balance with Logi, as there is no reason for a Logi to carry 2 weapons. - Bonuses tie things down, but IMO there is still room for versatility .
Every other player will have their own input so hopefully this leads to a Discussion, but the simple fact is Logistics can Assault better than the Assault dropsuit, this needs adjustment without impacting the Assault too much and leaving another OP suit in the mix until Hotfix Zulu deals with that.
What should they do |
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1137
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:CCP as usual drop another bomb on the players, as Logistic changes were not expected this soon.. I had just invested into Min.Logi L5 the day I find out the Logi's are being looked at by CCP.... When CCP address something, the players usually cry out in anguish .. and rightly so at timesBut in this scenario is there any real need for players to complain when realistically Logi suits are in need of adjustment if we are to keep aiming for the Unicorn that will balance Dust514. Logistics > Assault There is no argument there, Logistics are better combat suits then Assaults. This needs 'fixing' but then the mind-blowing question of How?? there are a few thing to look at - Heavys and Scouts are Kings of CQC at the moment, leaving mediums in a bad place. - Assaults are not as UP as players claim, buffing them may lead to more 'issues'. - Logistics suits not being required to fill equipment slots (leaving fitting for OPness) - Sidearm? This is blocking balance with Logi, as there is no reason for a Logi to carry 2 weapons. - Bonuses tie things down, but IMO there is still room for versatility . Every other player will have their own input so hopefully this leads to a Discussion, but the simple fact is Logistics can Assault better than the Assault dropsuit, this needs adjustment without impacting the Assault too much and leaving another OP suit in the mix until Hotfix Zulu deals with that. What should they do
IF someone wants to push logistic suit users to use more of their equipments, then one solution is:
INCREASE equipment fitting bonuses dramatically, so that they take only, say, 1/10th of their original PG/CPU. THEN REDUCE suit PG and CPU.
That way it's hard to make full combat fits, but adding equipment would be so cheap PG/CPU-wise it would not make sense to give up that almost free advantage.
:-S
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1137
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also, The Dark Cloud had okay idea of new concept here: active modules for assault suits so they'd have new advantage for the purpose of 'assaulting'.
That could be equipment with big cost but with assault suits getting about -50 to -75% fitting discount.
But let's discuss about that in the original thread, shall we.
:-S
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1108
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
In theory that works, though another system may achieve the same effect
-Proto Suits need to have Proto equipment, and the same for Adv/Bsc.
And/Or
-Tier of suit determines what equipment may be fit. (No more BPO's w/Core reps)
Though your fitting bonus increase does create a similar outcome |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
4982
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing.
RIP Stinky Sleeve.
RIP Dust514.
See you on Destiny. PSN: GSDSteVB
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1108
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing.
Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role.
Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. |
Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
352
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. The Amarr Logi is an Assault Logi. So it should be competitive in the assault role. I'm not saying it should be equal but don't turn it in to a medic. Let the Amarr Logis keep their sidearms and don't give them the fourth equipment slot.
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Yoma Carrim
Vengeance Unbound
605
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you must know I would let the Amarr logi keep there sidearm
and redo the slot layout for lower tear logi suits.
Assaults need more CPU and PG equal to the logi actually but without the need to fit equipment. Then give them more module slots to make up for only having 1 equipment slot
Oh Heck
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1109
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kam Elto wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. The Amarr Logi is an Assault Logi. So it should be competitive in the assault role. I'm not saying it should be equal but don't turn it in to a medic. Let the Amarr Logis keep their sidearms and don't give them the fourth equipment slot.
There is no reason for this though... Why is the Amarr Logi an assault logi? If the case is that it should be an 'Assault Logi' shouldn't the Matari Logi also have 2 weapons? They is limited difference between Amarr Logi/Assault so they need to be seperated.
The Amarr Logi was a good 'Assault Logi' prior to Logistics bonuses being changed.. Now it needs to be brought back to the Logistics role, not left to Assault.
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo
1464
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Amarr logi is crap because it has one less slot and you have to drive back to the redline and AFK if you want the bonus to actually apply
Other than that I think logis are actually okay where they are, their diversity is a good thing. The imbalances lie with the other suits. |
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ZDub 303
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo
3100
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts.
You are contradicting yourself here...
The assault suit would be fine if it wasnt worse than every other suit in the game? it sounds like the assault suit needs a buff to be on par with every other suit...
But no... lets nerf logis again so assaults can still be inferior to light and heavy suits! |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3585
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Kam Elto wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. The Amarr Logi is an Assault Logi. So it should be competitive in the assault role. I'm not saying it should be equal but don't turn it in to a medic. Let the Amarr Logis keep their sidearms and don't give them the fourth equipment slot. There is no reason for this though... Why is the Amarr Logi an assault logi? If the case is that it should be an 'Assault Logi' shouldn't the Matari Logi also have 2 weapons? They is limited difference between Amarr Logi/Assault so they need to be seperated. The Amarr Logi was a good 'Assault Logi' prior to Logistics bonuses being changed.. Now it needs to be brought back to the Logistics role, not left to Assault. The difference between the Amarr assault and the logi is that in an assault suit I'll kill you when you over heat.
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
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Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood Dark Taboo
3530
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
I wouldn't honestly, I'd give Assaults more ehp, slightly better eWar stats(yes, they should be able to get a tiny bit) And the Cal/Gal more CPU/Pg(the others got enough) The issue they seem to be having that the Amarr Logi is nearly better then the Amarr assault. Not to mention the Amarr Logi got a low and is getting a equipment slot. Which would make it better then any other Logi regardless of bonuses(I'd choose a sidearm and uplinks over hives/scanners/rep tool any day)
So the Amarr Logis need to make a exchange and give up the sidearm or the 2 extra slots they are gaining.
Yes, the Amarr Assault gets a great bonus, but what if you like the semi auto?(which never overheats) or any other weapons? Just use the Amarr Logi.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3586
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I wouldn't honestly, I'd give Assaults more ehp, slightly better eWar stats(yes, they should be able to get a tiny bit)
The issue they seem to be having that the Amarr Logi is nearly better then the Amarr assault. Not to mention the Amarr Logi got a low and is getting a equipment slot. Which would make it better then any other Logi regardless of bonuses(I'd choose a sidearm and uplinks over hives/scanners/rep tool any day)
So the Amarr Logis need to make a exchange and give up the sidearm or the 2 extra slots they are gaining.
Yes, the Amarr Assault gets a great bonus, but what if you like the semi auto?(which never overheats) or any other weapons? Just use the Amarr Logi. The A-logi is definitely not better than its assault counter part, and when did the A-logi get 2 more slots?
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
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Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood Dark Taboo
3530
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I wouldn't honestly, I'd give Assaults more ehp, slightly better eWar stats(yes, they should be able to get a tiny bit)
The issue they seem to be having that the Amarr Logi is nearly better then the Amarr assault. Not to mention the Amarr Logi got a low and is getting a equipment slot. Which would make it better then any other Logi regardless of bonuses(I'd choose a sidearm and uplinks over hives/scanners/rep tool any day)
So the Amarr Logis need to make a exchange and give up the sidearm or the 2 extra slots they are gaining.
Yes, the Amarr Assault gets a great bonus, but what if you like the semi auto?(which never overheats) or any other weapons? Just use the Amarr Logi. The A-logi is definitely not better than its assault counter part, and when did the A-logi get 2 more slots? It got a extra low iirc, and is getting a new equipment slot.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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The True Inferno
Myrmidon Syndicate
17
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
What about removing the sidearm on the normal A-logi suit but adding another suit that has a sidearm but at the cost of a module or two, effectively giving the best of both worlds.
ScP = GÖÑ
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1691
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Make them heavy frames.
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Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
353
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Posted - 2014.07.11 18:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. You are contradicting yourself here... The assault suit would be fine if it wasnt worse than every other suit in the game? it sounds like the assault suit needs a buff to be on par with every other suit... But no... lets nerf logis again so assaults can still be inferior to light and heavy suits! Agreed. Let's fix the assault suits first and see where we're at then.
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
1499
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Posted - 2014.07.11 18:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
how to fix logistics and assaults? that is easy and I said that since closed beta
assault, the suit which is supposed to be the jack of all trades main combat suit: it should have slightly above average base stats, high number of hi and low slots, 1 equipment slot => that way you can use the slots for whatever you want to do with it and be the best at it except against specialized suits.
logistics the suit that is supposed to do logi stuff : high base hp, above average scanning precision and range, all other stats average, low amounts of hi and low slots, high amount of equipment slots => that way you can do logi at the frontlines without being able to overtank the suit.
done! |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.11 18:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
i would prefer this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166921
or
maybe this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=123577&find=unread.
or
well anything other than everything else ccp have suggested or done. it needs a complete remake along with assaults. they both need bringing to a level where they are more equal in slots, cpu/pg and damage just different roles
All Hail Legion
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