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        | Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) | 
      
      
        |  TheD1CK
 Dead Man's Game
 Dark Taboo
 
 1108
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 15:50:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
 CCP as usual drop another bomb on the players, as Logistic changes were not expected this soon..
 I had just invested into Min.Logi L5 the day I find out the Logi's are being looked at by CCP....
  
 When CCP address something, the players usually cry out in anguish .. and rightly so at times
 
 But in this scenario is there any real need for players to complain when realistically Logi suits are
 in need of adjustment if we are to keep aiming for the Unicorn that will balance Dust514.
 
 Logistics > Assault
 
 There is no argument there, Logistics are better combat suits then Assaults.
 This needs 'fixing' but then the mind-blowing question of How?? there are a few thing to look at
 
 - Heavys and Scouts are Kings of CQC at the moment, leaving mediums in a bad place.
 - Assaults are not as UP as players claim, buffing them may lead to more 'issues'.
 - Logistics suits not being required to fill equipment slots (leaving fitting for OPness)
 - Sidearm? This is blocking balance with Logi, as there is no reason for a Logi to carry 2 weapons.
 - Bonuses tie things down, but IMO there is still room for versatility .
 
 Every other player will have their own input so hopefully this leads to a Discussion, but the simple fact is
 Logistics can Assault better than the Assault dropsuit, this needs adjustment without impacting the
 Assault too much and leaving another OP suit in the mix until Hotfix Zulu deals with that.
 
 What should they do
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        |  KEROSIINI-TERO
 The Rainbow Effect
 
 1137
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 16:01:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
 
 TheD1CK wrote:CCP as usual drop another bomb on the players, as Logistic changes were not expected this soon.. I had just invested into Min.Logi L5 the day I find out the Logi's are being looked at by CCP....   When CCP address something, the players usually cry out in anguish .. and rightly so at times But in this scenario is there any real need for players to complain when realistically Logi suits are in need of adjustment if we are to keep aiming for the Unicorn that will balance Dust514.Logistics > Assault There is no argument there, Logistics are better combat suits then Assaults.  This needs 'fixing' but then the mind-blowing question of How?? there are a few thing to look at - Heavys and Scouts are Kings of CQC at the moment, leaving mediums in a bad place. - Assaults are not as UP as players claim, buffing them may lead to more 'issues'. - Logistics suits not being required to fill equipment slots (leaving fitting for OPness) - Sidearm? This is blocking balance with Logi, as there is no reason for a Logi to carry 2 weapons. - Bonuses tie things down, but IMO there is still room for versatility . Every other player will have their own input so hopefully this leads to a Discussion, but the simple fact is Logistics can Assault better than the Assault dropsuit, this needs adjustment without impacting the  Assault too much and leaving another OP suit in the mix until Hotfix Zulu deals with that. What should they do   
 
 IF someone wants to push logistic suit users to use more of their equipments, then one solution is:
 
 INCREASE equipment fitting bonuses dramatically, so that they take only, say, 1/10th of their original PG/CPU.
 THEN
 REDUCE suit PG and CPU.
 
 
 That way it's hard to make full combat fits, but adding equipment would be so cheap PG/CPU-wise it would not make sense to give up that almost free advantage.
 
 
 :-S | 
      
      
        |  KEROSIINI-TERO
 The Rainbow Effect
 
 1137
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 16:05:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
 Also, The Dark Cloud had okay idea of new concept here:
 active modules for assault suits so they'd have new advantage for the purpose of 'assaulting'.
 
 
 That could be equipment with big cost but with assault suits getting about -50 to -75% fitting discount.
 
 But let's discuss about that in the original thread, shall we.
 
 :-S | 
      
      
        |  TheD1CK
 Dead Man's Game
 Dark Taboo
 
 1108
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 16:10:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
 In theory that works, though another system may achieve the same effect
 
 -Proto Suits need to have Proto equipment, and the same for Adv/Bsc.
 
 And/Or
 
 -Tier of suit determines what equipment may be fit. (No more BPO's w/Core reps)
 
 Though your fitting bonus increase does create a similar outcome
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        |  Chunky Munkey
 Amarr Templars
 Amarr Empire
 
 4982
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 16:18:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
 If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing.
 
 RIP Stinky Sleeve.
RIP Dust514.
See you on Destiny. PSN: GSDSteVB | 
      
      
        |  TheD1CK
 Dead Man's Game
 Dark Taboo
 
 1108
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 16:23:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
 
 Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. 
 Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place
 It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role.
 
 Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts.
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        |  Kam Elto
 KILL-EM-QUICK
 RISE of LEGION
 
 352
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 16:33:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
 
 TheD1CK wrote:The Amarr Logi is an Assault Logi. So it should be competitive in the assault role. I'm not saying it should be equal but don't turn it in to a medic. Let the Amarr Logis keep their sidearms and don't give them the fourth equipment slot.Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. 
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        |  Yoma Carrim
 Vengeance Unbound
 
 605
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 16:39:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
 If you must know I would let the Amarr logi keep there sidearm
 
 and redo the slot layout for lower tear logi suits.
 
 Assaults need more CPU and PG equal to the logi actually but without the need to fit equipment. Then give them more module slots to make up for only having 1 equipment slot
 
 Oh Heck | 
      
      
        |  TheD1CK
 Dead Man's Game
 
 1109
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:00:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
 
 Kam Elto wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts.  The Amarr Logi is an Assault Logi. So it should be competitive in the assault role. I'm not saying it should be equal but don't turn it in to a medic. Let the Amarr Logis keep their sidearms and don't give them the fourth equipment slot. 
 There is no reason for this though... Why is the Amarr Logi an assault logi?
 If the case is that it should be an 'Assault Logi' shouldn't the Matari Logi also have 2 weapons?
 They is limited difference between Amarr Logi/Assault so they need to be seperated.
 
 The Amarr Logi was a good 'Assault Logi' prior to Logistics bonuses being changed..
 Now it needs to be brought back to the Logistics role, not left to Assault.
 
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        |  Ryme Intrinseca
 The Rainbow Effect
 Dark Taboo
 
 1464
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:11:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
 Amarr logi is crap because it has one less slot and you have to drive back to the redline and AFK if you want the bonus to actually apply
  
 Other than that I think logis are actually okay where they are, their diversity is a good thing. The imbalances lie with the other suits.
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        |  ZDub 303
 Escrow Removal and Acquisition
 Dark Taboo
 
 3100
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:15:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
 
 TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. 
 You are contradicting yourself here...
 
 The assault suit would be fine if it wasnt worse than every other suit in the game? it sounds like the assault suit needs a buff to be on par with every other suit...
 
 But no... lets nerf logis again so assaults can still be inferior to light and heavy suits!
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        |  Nocturnal Soul
 Immortal Retribution
 
 3585
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:16:00 -
          [12] - Quote 
 
 TheD1CK wrote:Kam Elto wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts.  The Amarr Logi is an Assault Logi. So it should be competitive in the assault role. I'm not saying it should be equal but don't turn it in to a medic. Let the Amarr Logis keep their sidearms and don't give them the fourth equipment slot. There is no reason for this though... Why is the Amarr Logi an assault logi? If the case is that it should be an 'Assault Logi' shouldn't the Matari Logi also have 2 weapons? They is limited difference between Amarr Logi/Assault so they need to be seperated. The Amarr Logi was a good 'Assault Logi' prior to Logistics bonuses being changed.. Now it needs to be brought back to the Logistics role, not left to Assault. The difference between the Amarr assault and the logi is that in an assault suit I'll kill you when you over heat.
 
 Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!! | 
      
      
        |  Cody Sietz
 SVER True Blood
 Dark Taboo
 
 3530
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:22:00 -
          [13] - Quote 
 I wouldn't honestly, I'd give Assaults more ehp, slightly better eWar stats(yes, they should be able to get a tiny bit)
 And the Cal/Gal more CPU/Pg(the others got enough)
 The issue they seem to be having that the Amarr Logi is nearly better then the Amarr assault. Not to mention the Amarr Logi got a low and is getting a equipment slot. Which would make it better then any other Logi regardless of bonuses(I'd choose a sidearm and uplinks over hives/scanners/rep tool any day)
 
 So the Amarr Logis need to make a exchange and give up the sidearm or the 2 extra slots they are gaining.
 
 Yes, the Amarr Assault gets a great bonus, but what if you like the semi auto?(which never overheats) or any other weapons? Just use the Amarr Logi.
 
 "I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire | 
      
      
        |  Nocturnal Soul
 Immortal Retribution
 
 3586
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:27:00 -
          [14] - Quote 
 
 Cody Sietz wrote:I wouldn't honestly, I'd give Assaults more ehp, slightly better eWar stats(yes, they should be able to get a tiny bit)
 The issue they seem to be having that the Amarr Logi is nearly better then the Amarr assault. Not to mention the Amarr Logi got a low and is getting a equipment slot. Which would make it better then any other Logi regardless of bonuses(I'd choose a sidearm and uplinks over hives/scanners/rep tool any day)
 
 So the Amarr Logis need to make a exchange and give up the sidearm or the 2 extra slots they are gaining.
 
 Yes, the Amarr Assault gets a great bonus, but what if you like the semi auto?(which never overheats) or any other weapons? Just use the Amarr Logi.
 The A-logi is definitely not better than its assault counter part, and when did the A-logi get 2 more slots?
 
 Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!! | 
      
      
        |  Cody Sietz
 SVER True Blood
 Dark Taboo
 
 3530
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:29:00 -
          [15] - Quote 
 
 Nocturnal Soul wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:I wouldn't honestly, I'd give Assaults more ehp, slightly better eWar stats(yes, they should be able to get a tiny bit)
 The issue they seem to be having that the Amarr Logi is nearly better then the Amarr assault. Not to mention the Amarr Logi got a low and is getting a equipment slot. Which would make it better then any other Logi regardless of bonuses(I'd choose a sidearm and uplinks over hives/scanners/rep tool any day)
 
 So the Amarr Logis need to make a exchange and give up the sidearm or the 2 extra slots they are gaining.
 
 Yes, the Amarr Assault gets a great bonus, but what if you like the semi auto?(which never overheats) or any other weapons? Just use the Amarr Logi.
 The A-logi is definitely not better than its assault counter part, and when did the A-logi get 2 more slots? It got a extra low iirc, and is getting a new equipment slot.
 
 "I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire | 
      
      
        |  The True Inferno
 Myrmidon Syndicate
 
 17
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:41:00 -
          [16] - Quote 
 What about removing the sidearm on the normal A-logi suit but adding another suit that has a sidearm but at the cost of a module or two, effectively giving the best of both worlds.
 
 ScP = GÖÑ | 
      
      
        |  Vulpes Dolosus
 Molon Labe.
 General Tso's Alliance
 
 1691
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 17:44:00 -
          [17] - Quote 
 Make them heavy frames.
 
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        |  Kam Elto
 KILL-EM-QUICK
 RISE of LEGION
 
 353
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 18:00:00 -
          [18] - Quote 
 
 ZDub 303 wrote:Agreed. Let's fix the assault suits first and see where we're at then.TheD1CK wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:If the problem being fixed is that they are better than assaults, then clearly it's the assaults that need fixing. Not necessarily.. The Logistics assaults better than an Assault so it is the Logistics that is out of place It is a suit and role intended for squad support which should not be used as an Assault role. Assaults are decent suits if they weren't shadowed by Heavys/Logis/Scouts. You are contradicting yourself here... The assault suit would be fine if it wasnt worse than every other suit in the game ? it sounds like the assault suit needs a buff to be on par with every other suit... But no... lets nerf logis again so assaults can still be inferior to light and heavy suits! 
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        |  Jack McReady
 DUST University
 Ivy League
 
 1499
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 18:10:00 -
          [19] - Quote 
 how to fix logistics and assaults? that is easy and I said that since closed beta
 
 assault, the suit which is supposed to be the jack of all trades main combat suit: it should have slightly above average base stats, high number of hi and low slots, 1 equipment slot => that way you can use the slots for whatever you want to do with it and be the best at it except against specialized suits.
 
 logistics the suit that is supposed to do logi stuff : high base hp, above average scanning precision and range, all other stats average, low amounts of hi and low slots, high amount of equipment slots => that way you can do logi at the frontlines without being able to overtank the suit.
 
 done!
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        |  ADAM-OF-EVE
 Dead Man's Game
 Dark Taboo
 
 1556
 
 
      | Posted - 2014.07.11 18:11:00 -
          [20] - Quote 
 i would prefer this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166921
 
 or
 
 maybe this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=123577&find=unread.
 
 or
 
 well anything other than everything else ccp have suggested or done. it needs a complete remake along with assaults. they both need bringing to a level where they are more equal in slots, cpu/pg and damage just different roles
 
 All Hail Legion | 
      
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