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CCP Rattati is letting me down

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Harpyja Legio DXIV 2032	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:17:00 - [1] - Quote Because of this: CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. Well, then here's what I think. I don't think infantry AV should be entitled to be in every mode either. Vehicle specialists can't kill infantry in ambush? Fine. Then infantry AV specialists shouldn't be able to kill vehicles, in say, skirmish. Edit: link "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 6047	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:18:00 - [2] - Quote Very mature approach. I commend you. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2033	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:19:00 - [3] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Very mature approach. I commend you. I hope you got my sarcasm "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2412	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:21:00 - [4] - Quote If vehicles aren't in every mode, what use would AV have in those modes? Any modes without vehicles should be without AV right? Unless there is a joke here I am not getting. Then its on me. This is how a minja feels
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 6047	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:21:00 - [5] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Very mature approach. I commend you. I hope you got my sarcasm I hope you got my sarcasm. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:27:00 - [6] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Very mature approach. I commend you. Still more mature than the 100% infantry crying they can't do anything to a tank pre-1.8.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2033	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:29:00 - [7] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: If vehicles aren't in every mode, what use would AV have in those modes? Any modes without vehicles should be without AV right? Unless there is a joke here I am not getting. Then its on me. Well the point I was trying to make here was that if vehicle pilots are outright banned from interfering with infantry in one gamemode, then infantry AV should be outright banned from interfering with vehicles in another. Obviously, though, I do not want such a game mode where vehicles can go about killing infantry without any infantry AV on the field. The real point I was trying to make here was that no single playstyle should be banned from participating in any one game mode. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2412	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:29:00 - [8] - Quote DontChimpOut wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Very mature approach. I commend you. Still more mature than the 100% infantry crying they can't do anything to a tank pre-1.8. You are right, tanks should take all 16 team members just to take 1 down This is how a minja feels
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:12:00 - [9] - Quote Why shouldn't vehicles be involved with game modes? Why are the ground folk aka Dust people think that battlefields should be limited to just infantry in the New Eden world? It's like, here have all these spacecrafts in space for EVE but when it comes to those Dust boys, no way in hell would the factions have vehicles to combat their enemies on ground.
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10340	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:10:00 - [10] - Quote There's a reason why Vehicle Pilots aren't entitled to Ambush Contracts, and it's because the game mechanics (such as the "Smart" Spawn and Map Design) inside of Ambush caused vehicles to be inherently overpowered. What design mechanics in Skirmish allow AVers to be theoretically invulnerable, while killing Vehicles with ease regardless of tactics they attempt to utilize? Also, CCP effectively banned Swarm Launchers from Ambush, but do you see AVers complaining? Long Live The Anime Empire "You know what? You really, REALLY, like to dampen the mood" - Lea Silencio -HAND

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3530	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:13:00 - [11] - Quote He's letting me down with these logi changes Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! Changes to the A-logi is the embodiment ofCCPLogic
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:17:00 - [12] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: He's letting me down with these logi changes Amen brother
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2150	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:22:00 - [13] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Because of this: CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. Well, then here's what I think. I don't think infantry AV should be entitled to be in every mode either. Vehicle specialists can't kill infantry in ambush? Fine. Then infantry AV specialists shouldn't be able to kill vehicles, in say, skirmish. Edit: link It's more what the Eve space Mercenary was supposed to be about. Sure when assaulting planets and Taking terrestrial Sovereignty there is going to be mass Land and air vehicle assaults. But the other part was supposed to be Using a missile like projectile(Full of mercenaries) to fire at Titans and enemy ships to then trigger a Fight on that ship for ownership.. Essentially capturing titans and space ships in EVE.. Then there is space stations and outposts and POS's.. Yes planetary combat was supposed to tactically involve vehicles in the use. But no it wasn't supposed to EVER be a main role to specialize in this IP. The Original concepts for DUST had vehicles completely based on Warpoints. Sure you can get skills and buy vehicles.. But you would have to go out in your Mercenary suit and earn the warpoints to then call in Said Vehicle or installation. There was supposed to be commanders on each side that sat in the warbarges, that then got a command decision of how to allocate vehicle resources, 3 Tanks 3 Fighters, 2 Lav's.. etc. What we got for "Pilots" today is an offshoot of an unfinished product that never did get finished. Then the evolution around the adaptation and quick fixes that where at the developers limited disposal.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2039	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:29:00 - [14] - Quote Can't believe you took this so seriously.... Atiim wrote: There's a reason why Vehicle Pilots aren't entitled to Ambush Contracts, and it's because the game mechanics (such as the "Smart" Spawn and Map Design) inside of Ambush caused vehicles to be inherently overpowered. What design mechanics in Skirmish allow AVers to be theoretically invulnerable, while killing Vehicles with ease regardless of tactics they attempt to utilize? Also, CCP effectively banned Swarm Launchers from Ambush, but do you see AVers complaining? Smart spawn causes greater problems overall, it's not limited to just vehicles vs infantry. If you argue that vehicles are inherently overpowered in ambush due to the game mechanics, then I can argue the same where AV can be overpowered against vehicles in skirmish. I mean, in skirmish, you can choose where to spawn, so you just need to get one or two more people in AV suits to spawn with you near a tank and unleash hell on it. It'll be dead before it can even realize that some AV'ers just spawned in close proximity together. Also, how much SP is realistic to be spent into swarm launchers for a high end level? 2 million? Let's say 2 million. How much SP do vehicles require to get to a high end level? Let's say 10 million (I actually have about 20 million but I'm going to give a generous 10 million). Banning vehicles in ambush is a much greater slap in the face for vehicle specialists than for random Joe-Bob who spent 2 million into swarm launchers. I have just over 20 million SP in total. Let's say Joe-Bob also has 20 million SP in total. Joe-Bob has all his SP into infantry, while all of mine (bar about half a million) are into vehicles. Joe-Bob can still play with the rest of his 18 million SP in ambush, while all of my 20 million SP is useless in ambush and I'm no better than someone fresh out of the Academy. Therefore, you cannot make the argument that AVers are not complaining that SLs are effectively banned in ambush, because their loss is not comparable to what a vehicle specialist loses. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1483	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:33:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: There's a reason why Vehicle Pilots aren't entitled to Ambush Contracts, and it's because the game mechanics (such as the "Smart" Spawn and Map Design) inside of Ambush caused vehicles to be inherently overpowered.[...] I believed this to be the the reason aswell until I asked him in the charlie thread: CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip [...]Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. It's not driven by game mechanics requiring it. At least not exclusively. Linky for source You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 649	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:47:00 - [16] - Quote But... infantry are banned from harming vehicles in ambush. Have you ever seen a tank die to an ASL in Ambush since Bravo released? I can never touch your tank there. Nova Knives are best sidearm.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2040	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:49:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: There's a reason why Vehicle Pilots aren't entitled to Ambush Contracts, and it's because the game mechanics (such as the "Smart" Spawn and Map Design) inside of Ambush caused vehicles to be inherently overpowered. What design mechanics in Skirmish allow AVers to be theoretically invulnerable, while killing Vehicles with ease regardless of tactics they attempt to utilize? Also, CCP effectively banned Swarm Launchers from Ambush, but do you see AVers complaining? Ok, let me give it to you straight. Poor game mechanics should be treated, not their symptoms. You shouldn't cry to remove vehicles from ambush because the game keeps spawning you in front of a large blaster. When was the last time you saw a rail tank go 30-0 --- when was the last time you saw a missile tank go 30-0 --- in ambush? Large blasters and armor reps were nerfed rather hard (in conjunction). Triple rep Maddies are no longer capable of repping through AV. Large blasters can't kill a heavy in a timely manner unless under 20 meters (and even then it's not timely because I have to stop and let dispersion settle down because it is that great). If that heavy has an Ishukone Assault FG, I either have to run for it or commit to engage him within 20 meters. He's especially lethal at such close proximity because now AV grenades see some action. Or how about the last time you saw an LAV get the most kills? Just STFU Atiim, your arguments have always been poor and flawed. Do the community a favor and STFU. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2041	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:52:00 - [18] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: But... infantry are banned from harming vehicles in ambush. Have you ever seen a tank die to an ASL in Ambush since Bravo released? I can never touch your tank there. The point was that infantry will be able to run around like headless chickens in ambush without any vehicle interference. Then it should only be fair that vehicles can do their thing without any AV interference elsewhere "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Eko Sol Strange Playings 581	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:03:00 - [19] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Because of this: CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. Well, then here's what I think. I don't think infantry AV should be entitled to be in every mode either. Vehicle specialists can't kill infantry in ambush? Fine. Then infantry AV specialists shouldn't be able to kill vehicles, in say, skirmish. Edit: link I'm not going to lie. There are people that suck without vehicles but are killer vehicle users. Why should they lose a mode and others don't? Although it's quite extreme there is a bit of validity to it. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Mike De Luca Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 160	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:20:00 - [20] - Quote Ok.....so much maturity in here. My opinion, should be left as it is currently and just seperate oms n regular ambush, everybody stays moderately happy.....except the ones who're only complaining about this because they lose easy kill farming.....and they have no opinion I care to hear anyway. Ultimately doesn't bother me because me because well.......I started playing in 1.7 so I'm sure you can see why I will never go back in there again, vehicles or no vehicles. what i think of when charging fg

Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 67	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:23:00 - [21] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: He's letting me down with these logi changes This is more important than any AV issue
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10343	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:13:00 - [22] - Quote @Harpyja I'm killing off threads like these before they start. I'd rather not have a "Nerf Swarms" campaign because some scrub can't pull 80/0 scores by simply standing still and letting reps do the work for him. If I have to be "too serious", then so be it. Smart Spawn isn't limited to V/AV situations, but V/AV situations were where they did the most harm to players. That only works if the pilot willingly allows for him to be near an Infantry spawn location, which is an issue of incompetence (while common with vehicle pilots, is in no way a valid argument when discussing balance). Though if multiple players decide to work together to destroy something, it should die very quickly. Only 2m SP? Good luck taking down anything other than a Tourist, let alone trying to fit a Swarm Launcher without having to run crappy modules on your Dropsuit. Not really. The primary (and in most AVers cases, only) source of income and WP is from the destruction of vehicles, meaning that it's removal guarantees that they won't be able to be successful in any fashion in Ambush, to the same extent of Vehicle Pilots. Also, the investment is far beyond 2m SP, so I'll just laugh at the rest of that paragraph as it has no credibility. I'm grabbing a bite to eat, but I'll be back soon to remove the credibility from your 2nd post as well. Long Live The Anime Empire "You know what? You really, REALLY, like to dampen the mood" - Lea Silencio -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2619	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:14:00 - [23] - Quote In the thousands and thousands of matches played since the beginning of Dust ... Have infantry AV squads every ROFL stomped a match? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11737	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:14:00 - [24] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: DontChimpOut wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Very mature approach. I commend you. Still more mature than the 100% infantry crying they can't do anything to a tank pre-1.8. You are right, tanks should take all 16 team members just to take 1 down Thats not what he said Mr Strawmanning...... "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11737	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:15:00 - [25] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: In the thousands and thousands of matches played since the beginning of Dust ... Have infantry AV squads every ROFL stomped a match? Uprising 1.0-1.6 all match every match "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
Yeeeuuuupppp uptown456 Dark Taboo 417	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:04:00 - [26] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: He's letting me down with these logi changes He's making me happy to these scout changes. As well as the ads isk cost reduction. And assault Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 943	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:44:00 - [27] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Because of this: CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. Well, then here's what I think. I don't think infantry AV should be entitled to be in every mode either. Vehicle specialists can't kill infantry in ambush? Fine. Then infantry AV specialists shouldn't be able to kill vehicles, in say, skirmish. Edit: link We aren't in any mode where vehicles are excluded. We are as excluded from Ambush as you are. When AV is immune to tanks like tanks are immune to regular infantry, then you may have a reason to complain, but now you are just playing a victim when you aren't one. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 943	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:45:00 - [28] - Quote DontChimpOut wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Very mature approach. I commend you. Still more mature than the 100% infantry crying they can't do anything to a tank pre-1.8. You ARE Spkr. I suspected it but now I'm sure. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 943	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:48:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: There's a reason why Vehicle Pilots aren't entitled to Ambush Contracts, and it's because the game mechanics (such as the "Smart" Spawn and Map Design) inside of Ambush caused vehicles to be inherently overpowered. What design mechanics in Skirmish allow AVers to be theoretically invulnerable, while killing Vehicles with ease regardless of tactics they attempt to utilize? Also, CCP effectively banned Swarm Launchers from Ambush, but do you see AVers complaining? I'm raising my hand. I don't like Ambush without vehicles and I don't see that it has stopped one team from dominating the other most matches. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 943	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:54:00 - [30] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: But... infantry are banned from harming vehicles in ambush. Have you ever seen a tank die to an ASL in Ambush since Bravo released? I can never touch your tank there. The point was that infantry will be able to run around like headless chickens in ambush without any vehicle interference. Then it should only be fair that vehicles can do their thing without any AV interference elsewhere No, AV is already excluded from Ambush, just like vehicles are. There is no equivalence in your suggestion. The rational parallel is a vehicle only mode and Rattati already addressed that. Because, that's why.



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