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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2495
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Posted - 2014.07.07 17:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Have a different idea on how to test for hit detection errors?
Thank you for doing this, Aeon.
We're not sure how or why, but rapid, lateral directional changes (such as figure eight strafe) seem to yield better results for the CalScout than other Scouts. Speed isn't at issue, as the Minmatar Scout is faster when strafing but does not reproduce the observed problems.
Also, decloak animation is another prime suspect. This is most evident in CQC shotgun duels. Initial, on-target shotgun blasts miss the CalScout at a greater frequency than other Scouts, especially if the CalScout is decloaking. Here's Iggy's example footage in case you haven't seen it yet.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6174
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Posted - 2014.07.07 17:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Have a different idea on how to test for hit detection errors?
Thank you for doing this, Aeon. We're not sure how or why, but rapid, lateral directional changes (such as figure eight strafe) seem to yield better results for the CalScout than other Scouts. Speed isn't at issue, as the Minmatar Scout is faster when strafing but does not reproduce the observed problems. Also, decloak animation is another prime suspect. This is most evident in CQC shotgun duels. Initial, on-target shotgun blasts miss the CalScout at a greater frequency than other Scouts, especially if the CalScout is decloaking. Here's Iggy's example footage in case you haven't seen it yet.
Thing about the Shotgun (not sure if this was changed, been a while since I did the test) is that the Shotgun spread doesn't cover all of the reticle. Had done a test with Rampage a while back regarding this but, like everything, it was panned. 
At any rate, I'm officially awake now so I'mma upload the video where Zatara and I were on different teams. I had absolutely no problem hitting him at all save for one instance where he had a bit of elevation but I've -always- had problems hitting targets at a different elevation than me.
It'll be up soon.
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Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6174
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Posted - 2014.07.07 17:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sum1ne Else wrote:Awesome, great job- you can really see those markers of when they do and do not.
What is your X & Y in ADS at? you track him really well..
Sensitivity is at 30
ADS sensitivity is at 25
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6175
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alright, here's the second test video that pretty much just goes to show that it's either latency based or you guys just suck at aiming like I do
Sarcasm aside, didn't notice much different in this video, other than the fact that it took significantly longer because I had to wait for Zatara's shields to come back up. There were a few instances of ghost hits but the majority of the time that damage wasn't applied, I was just missing. I don't have the most amazing gun-game in the world, obviously, but I do well enough to hit the target.
In this video there are a few slow-mo portions.
One of which is when a random tried to kill me with a Proto Gal Scout and I slowed the clip down to illustrate that I was missing, a lot, before I finally managed to kill him by putting a good portion of my clip into his ankles when he jumped.
Another slowed down bit is against Zatara to show that I was getting ghost hits against him, but later did damage even when no hit indicator was given to signify that I did, in fact, hit him.
Finally, the last slowed down bit is to show how terrible I am with fast-moving targets at elevation. Missed a lot there.
To re-emphasize that I don't think this myth has much weight to it, and I'm not going to spend every waking hour trying to test every little facet that could potentially play into it, I don't think this has anything to do with faulty hit detection. I've only ever had a problem with certain Caldari Scouts, one in particular was Soren Kazaren who I mention by name just because I literally could not kill the guy no matter how hard I tried. This is anecdotal evidence, absolutely, but it helps when I have video evidence to back up my claims.
Figure-8 strafing isn't that big of a deal, wide-arch strafing isn't that big of a deal either; the problem that I have is when they're strafing and I over-compensate for where I think they're going to be and I'm sure that this video demonstrates that rather clearly. To be absolutely 100% clear, I think this is a side effect of players having difficulty compensating for a lack of slow-down effect on bullets as it was taken out in a recent Hotfix.
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Grimmiers
619
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
I was having this dorky conversation about hit detection with someone. I asked why we use hitboxes instead of using a silhouette of what the player is seeing. This would fix the hits missing on the edge of the character models and could allow for shots to graze if you hit the edges of the enemy.
NIce video though. It proves it's not an issue with the calscout, but with hit detection in general. So many shield flares. |
Cenex Langly
Dude.Man.Bro
770
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
I did similar tests. I don't think the hit box has bugs, in fact i think it works fine. What I noticed was that it seemed smaller than the other scouts. For example I set up a minmatar scout with nearly the same fitting (left the low slot with a targeting range to match the caldari scout) and in most engagements the caldari just got hit less (speed and less armor on the min scout, almost identical shields).
I feel like the other scouts have larger boxes and people hit them more where the caldari has a slightly smaller hit box and the auto-aim doesn't pick up on it as much. I think other scouts should be brought down to the same level as caldari and the problem should be solved.
fyi, Amarr and Gallente have HUGE boxes, they are so easy to hit.
Newb
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6178
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Oh, in case anyone's interested, here's the test I did with a Minmatar Scout a year ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlZRORUnTDQ
Fairly interesting looking at it now, what with the fact that aiming directly at the target would result in the shot not landing
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Grimmiers
619
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
That bullet homing aim assist is ridiculous in take 2...
I made a thread about it and it got buried, but I really hope we can make changes to that and try to improve hit detection overall.
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6178
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grimmiers wrote:That bullet homing aim assist is ridiculous in take 2...
I made a thread about it and it got buried, but I really hope we can make changes to that and try to improve hit detection overall.
Might seem ridiculous but without that and the slow-down effect, hit detection would just be even more miserable. Firefights would be ludicrously long, imo.
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Grimmiers
619
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Posted - 2014.07.07 20:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Grimmiers wrote:That bullet homing aim assist is ridiculous in take 2...
I made a thread about it and it got buried, but I really hope we can make changes to that and try to improve hit detection overall.
Might seem ridiculous but without that and the slow-down effect, hit detection would just be even more miserable. Firefights would be ludicrously long, imo.
So are you saying that legion's gunfights will be as bad as dust is with aim assist off? I'm not even saying I want the feature removed if it's good for the game, but I gave up trying to play this game with m/kb (controller still broken...) because of how frustrating it is to even put up an ounce of a fight.
If aim assist is disabled why can't it still have the homing bullets? Aim assist is meant to help you aim and the bullets finding the target is part of the hit detection system for dust. It's like there's hit detection assist only for players using controllers with aa on which throws off that balance.
I know there were many complaints about this in the past, but I think it's an issue that needs to be touched on within these hotfixes.
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6179
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Posted - 2014.07.07 20:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Grimmiers wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Grimmiers wrote:That bullet homing aim assist is ridiculous in take 2...
I made a thread about it and it got buried, but I really hope we can make changes to that and try to improve hit detection overall.
Might seem ridiculous but without that and the slow-down effect, hit detection would just be even more miserable. Firefights would be ludicrously long, imo. So are you saying that legion's gunfights will be as bad as dust is with aim assist off? I'm not even saying I want the feature removed if it's good for the game, but I gave up trying to play this game with m/kb (controller still broken...) because of how frustrating it is to even put up an ounce of a fight. If aim assist is disabled why can't it still have the homing bullets? Aim assist is meant to help you aim and the bullets finding the target is part of the hit detection system for dust. It's like there's hit detection assist only for players using controllers with aa on which throws off that balance. I know there were many complaints about this in the past, but I think it's an issue that needs to be touched on within these hotfixes.
Not talking about Legion at all and bringing it up as a comparison point for turning aim assist off is a bit flawed with mouse/keyboard being more precise than the DS3...
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Tectonic Fusion
1859
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Posted - 2014.07.07 21:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Slight ghosts hits yes but other then that all this proves is the strafe aim isn't as effective as CoD's normal aiming system. And use a combat rifle, scrambler rifle, and the rail rifle for testing as well...
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6179
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Posted - 2014.07.07 21:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Slight ghosts hits yes but other then that all this proves is the strafe aim isn't as effective as CoD's normal aiming system. And use a combat rifle, scrambler rifle, and the rail rifle for testing as well...
Like I said, I'm not investing any more time into this until I get something concrete to go off and test. This is going to turn into one very long, arduous testing session that will likely never end as people search for a reason to believe that something is wrong. I'm willing to test again but only if there's something specific to test, not every single weapon in some desperate attempt to find the pit of the cherry.
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