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Teba Gan
da durrty dozenz
1
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Posted - 2014.06.25 17:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
AND EWWW.
Had already given the ol blaster a try previously, and my god is it impossible to hit infantry. Even as you do, more often then not you miss unless at extreme ranges. I've never been a fan of the blaster anyways, but you certainly did a job making it highly ineffective against infantry and vehicles at range. (try hitting an LAV outside of 50 meters)
So blasters are meant for suppression now, and are supposed to fill the AV role. Can't say they are there yet.
Rails Rails, I just HATE. I was never a fan of the compressed variant pre 1.6, and never felt it was THE strongest turret. I liked having the ability to shoot more with less damage. Like a bee sting, (or wasp since bees are one sting dead) enough will do the trick. It was all about accuracy, not over whelming DPS.
I gave my old fit, the double damage mod with a nitro a try on my gunnlogi, and really didn't feel it was competitive anymore in lou of the other options out there. Sure it's nice to output a little extra damage, but when you stack a glass cannon fit up with a defense oriented fit, the advantage, it seems, goes to the tank stacking defenses. You aren't going to drop them in four shots with defenses up, which means you give them the time they need to orient and engage you. Considering yourself won't be running defense, 4 shots is MORE THAN ENOUGH to drop you.
Attempting to use speed to my advantage was a bit of a bust as well, my tank felt slow and sluggish in comparison to the other gunnlogi I was sparring with. I don't know if this is due to the fact that I've been running an LAV on my forge gun or that a plate makes a bigger difference than I thought now.
All in all, a glass cannon fit can no longer use range as an advantage, and it WON'T kill a tank in 2 shots as before. Which is cool I guess but it feels to me that running a glass cannon isn't nearly as viable as running a defense oriented fit, as anything you engage will have more than enough time to position themselves your way, and drop you in less than 4 or at 4 shots.
Please, for the love of dust, give me some turret variety. This turret type is boring as hell, and while people my cry it is for the best, I disagree. I want options, not to be stuck with a turret type I don't agree with or one that fits the style I'm attempting to create. The current iteration traps me, and forces me to play a way I simply don't want to play. Surprise and ambush, while speed tanking is out, now we are back to where we started with the 1.6 changes and defense oriented play is the way to go.
Range needs consideration where railguns are concerned. Now that they aren't the OP 2 shotters they once were, we need to evaluate adding range back into the equation (or turret variety that add extra range). As well as variants that allow for more shots with a decrease in damage.
Just because something was OP, IE damage modded rails, doesn't mean you have to nerf it into oblivion for those that want to play a different style of gameplay. I agree they were OP, but with such a short range now, you are putting yourself at the mercy of any tank that plays for the defense, as you can't use range or speed to any conceivable advantage.
Yes, this is just an inital look at the changes, and no doubt my mind will change as I play more, but EWW. How I HATED the compressed version. It was always a matter of opinion that it was the BEST turret at the time, not a matter of fact.
And I well imagine missiles are pretty OP now, since they have had no change and still maintain an ultra high alpha. I imagine maddies cry to any missile tank (as they did before, but now with lesser reps, and the change to rails, you should have plenty of time to OHK anything running defenses). Heard that hardeners stack now (didn't before?), so missiles should have a pretty easy time taking on shield tanks (maybe not "easy" but far more possible then before if that's the case).
So for the love of dust PLEASE BRING VARIETY BACK TO TANKS. This stagnant "bullshit" just isn't cutting it for me. More slots, more module choices, more fitting variety. |
CLONE117
True Pros Forever
821
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Posted - 2014.06.26 00:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
large missile seems to be the best turret now.
dust 514 shall be eternal.
pve for dust 514.
RIP 512.5 hps reps. ur 400 now.
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Teba Gan
da durrty dozenz
1
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Posted - 2014.06.26 02:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:large missile seems to be the best turret now.
That stacked with extenders and a hardener. Thing is basically untouchable. |
Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
376
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Posted - 2014.06.26 02:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
lol. range and blaster doesn't mix well. |
Teba Gan
da durrty dozenz
2
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Posted - 2014.06.26 13:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:lol. range and blaster doesn't mix well.
EDIT: Also another bluedot who wants to two shot everything
You clearly didn't read the thing in it's entirety. I mentioned only that blasters could use a bit more work hitting vehicles at range.
And that I want a longer range railgun that emphasizes range over power. To sum it up for you who can't read good. Tanking variety is what I ask for. NOT 2 shotting, as I did mention needed fixing. |
Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
377
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 23:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Teba Gan wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:lol. range and blaster doesn't mix well.
EDIT: Also another bluedot who wants to two shot everything You clearly didn't read the thing in it's entirety. I mentioned only that blasters could use a bit more work hitting vehicles at range. And that I want a longer range railgun that emphasizes range over power. To sum it up for you who can't read good. Tanking variety is what I ask for. NOT 2 shotting, as I did mention needed fixing.
1: Again, blasters and range don't mix. it doesn't matter what target is, they don't mix.
2:
Teba Gan wrote:
All in all, a glass cannon fit can no longer use range as an advantage, and it WON'T kill a tank in 2 shots as before. Which is cool I guess but it feels to me that running a glass cannon isn't nearly as viable as running a defense oriented fit, as anything you engage will have more than enough time to position themselves your way, and drop you in less than 4 or at 4 shots.
Lies, you did right here. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11246
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Posted - 2014.06.26 23:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:Teba Gan wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:lol. range and blaster doesn't mix well.
EDIT: Also another bluedot who wants to two shot everything You clearly didn't read the thing in it's entirety. I mentioned only that blasters could use a bit more work hitting vehicles at range. And that I want a longer range railgun that emphasizes range over power. To sum it up for you who can't read good. Tanking variety is what I ask for. NOT 2 shotting, as I did mention needed fixing. 1: Again, blasters and range don't mix. it doesn't matter what target is, they don't mix. 2: Teba Gan wrote:
All in all, a glass cannon fit can no longer use range as an advantage, and it WON'T kill a tank in 2 shots as before. Which is cool I guess but it feels to me that running a glass cannon isn't nearly as viable as running a defense oriented fit, as anything you engage will have more than enough time to position themselves your way, and drop you in less than 4 or at 4 shots.
Lies, you did right here.
I still kind of wish Blasters cycled/ burst fired rather than were full auto
" Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well."
-Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
1027
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Posted - 2014.06.27 03:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:Teba Gan wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:lol. range and blaster doesn't mix well.
EDIT: Also another bluedot who wants to two shot everything You clearly didn't read the thing in it's entirety. I mentioned only that blasters could use a bit more work hitting vehicles at range. And that I want a longer range railgun that emphasizes range over power. To sum it up for you who can't read good. Tanking variety is what I ask for. NOT 2 shotting, as I did mention needed fixing. 1: Again, blasters and range don't mix. it doesn't matter what target is, they don't mix. 2: Teba Gan wrote:
All in all, a glass cannon fit can no longer use range as an advantage, and it WON'T kill a tank in 2 shots as before. Which is cool I guess but it feels to me that running a glass cannon isn't nearly as viable as running a defense oriented fit, as anything you engage will have more than enough time to position themselves your way, and drop you in less than 4 or at 4 shots.
Lies, you did right here.
Never said I wanted to 2 shot, what I intended was that they took one style of play (glass cannon), and put it in the other style of plays hands (Defense tanks). Why not both be viable. Basically we are back to exactly where we started (with lesser damage all around) with 1.6. When running high resistances was the best way to go (and glass cannons but then you could at least take more than two shots)
To clear that up for you.
The emphasis on blasters was intended for the fact they were highly ineffective against vehicles at range, IE the LAV. Your statement is a no shitter. That's why I still don't understand why you thought it necessary, yes range and blasters don't mix, but it should be more than 50M against a vehicle.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
1027
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 03:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:Teba Gan wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:lol. range and blaster doesn't mix well.
EDIT: Also another bluedot who wants to two shot everything You clearly didn't read the thing in it's entirety. I mentioned only that blasters could use a bit more work hitting vehicles at range. And that I want a longer range railgun that emphasizes range over power. To sum it up for you who can't read good. Tanking variety is what I ask for. NOT 2 shotting, as I did mention needed fixing. 1: Again, blasters and range don't mix. it doesn't matter what target is, they don't mix. 2: Teba Gan wrote:
All in all, a glass cannon fit can no longer use range as an advantage, and it WON'T kill a tank in 2 shots as before. Which is cool I guess but it feels to me that running a glass cannon isn't nearly as viable as running a defense oriented fit, as anything you engage will have more than enough time to position themselves your way, and drop you in less than 4 or at 4 shots.
Lies, you did right here. I still kind of wish Blasters cycled/ burst fired rather than were full auto
That's what your trigger finger is for. And it seems like if you are going for kills with blasters it's almost gotta be a PRO turret. Silly advanced just doesn't seem to cut it for some reason.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11281
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 03:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote: That's what your trigger finger is for. And it seems like if you are going for kills with blasters it's almost gotta be a PRO turret. Silly advanced just doesn't seem to cut it for some reason.
Eh I thought it was hard to hit infantry with a Blaster.... then deployed my 8000 Armour no rep tank.
21/1 and that 1 was after I recalled and went infantry for to kill a sniper with my scrambler.
" We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
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Aardicus
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
55
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Posted - 2014.06.27 19:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote: That's what your trigger finger is for. And it seems like if you are going for kills with blasters it's almost gotta be a PRO turret. Silly advanced just doesn't seem to cut it for some reason.
Eh I thought it was hard to hit infantry with a Blaster.... then deployed my 8000 Armour no rep tank. 21/1 and that 1 was after I recalled and went infantry for to kill a sniper with my scrambler.
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/826/5175
Been messin around with this build lately, similar to your 8000 armor, but with a lil bit of repping. It is surprisingly not horrible, it stands toe to toe with lesser tier rails fairly well. And with the new armor composition skill it isn't entirely impossible to maneuver a bit as well.
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
1029
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Posted - 2014.06.27 20:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote: That's what your trigger finger is for. And it seems like if you are going for kills with blasters it's almost gotta be a PRO turret. Silly advanced just doesn't seem to cut it for some reason.
Eh I thought it was hard to hit infantry with a Blaster.... then deployed my 8000 Armour no rep tank. 21/1 and that 1 was after I recalled and went infantry for to kill a sniper with my scrambler.
Hmm, I love those maddie tankers that don't put reps on. Run baby RUN! It's always fun to watch them hoof it to the supply depot while I follow them with my forge gun.
It's nice when the damage I applied isn't repped back up 10 seconds later:)
And you must have fought some scrubs, cause when I get infront of a blaster, I normally can dance my way to safety, unless it's a pro blaster, then it comes down to who kills whom first. Generally I can get them down to make them run, but they do get me from time to time.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
1029
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Posted - 2014.06.27 20:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aardicus wrote:True Adamance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote: That's what your trigger finger is for. And it seems like if you are going for kills with blasters it's almost gotta be a PRO turret. Silly advanced just doesn't seem to cut it for some reason.
Eh I thought it was hard to hit infantry with a Blaster.... then deployed my 8000 Armour no rep tank. 21/1 and that 1 was after I recalled and went infantry for to kill a sniper with my scrambler. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/826/5175Been messin around with this build lately, similar to your 8000 armor, but with a lil bit of repping. It is surprisingly not horrible, it stands toe to toe with lesser tier rails fairly well. And with the new armor composition skill it isn't entirely impossible to maneuver a bit as well.
Interesting, a complex light reps almost as much as a basic heavy. So dropping down to a Light complex, means you only lose 5 over the basic heavy and you gain quite a bit of PG/CPU out of the deal. This is certainly a stand and deliver fit, that allows for limited in battle repping but is more about taking the beating and repping outside of combat.
Solid fit, how's it fair against a gunnlogi particle cannon? Thing looks like it could take those out rather easily.
Edit: And boo to that armor composition skill, how about shield tanks get a little loving from a new skill!
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Aardicus
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
55
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Posted - 2014.06.28 17:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Aardicus wrote:True Adamance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote: That's what your trigger finger is for. And it seems like if you are going for kills with blasters it's almost gotta be a PRO turret. Silly advanced just doesn't seem to cut it for some reason.
Eh I thought it was hard to hit infantry with a Blaster.... then deployed my 8000 Armour no rep tank. 21/1 and that 1 was after I recalled and went infantry for to kill a sniper with my scrambler. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/826/5175Been messin around with this build lately, similar to your 8000 armor, but with a lil bit of repping. It is surprisingly not horrible, it stands toe to toe with lesser tier rails fairly well. And with the new armor composition skill it isn't entirely impossible to maneuver a bit as well. Interesting, a complex light reps almost as much as a basic heavy. So dropping down to a Light complex, means you only lose 5 over the basic heavy and you gain quite a bit of PG/CPU out of the deal. This is certainly a stand and deliver fit, that allows for limited in battle repping but is more about taking the beating and repping outside of combat. Solid fit, how's it fair against a gunnlogi particle cannon? Thing looks like it could take those out rather easily. Edit: And boo to that armor composition skill, how about shield tanks get a little loving from a new skill!
Yup, complex light repper = basic heavy repper (give or take) with the aforementioned PG savings.
Stand and Deliver, check. Repping outside combat, check.
Most rails overheat trying to kill it, now I can't tell you thier fits but that is the general rule. And after a few hits I don't even need to keep moving back and forth as I can tell I'll kill them before they kill me after the first few hits and how hard they were.
Also of note, I have survived being blindsided by a damage moded large missile turret many times, again not sure if they were proto or not, but normally it does not matter as a standard with damage mod will insta gib a maddy.
RE scout stands slack jawed as hit 3 REs don't kill me all by themselves....
And maybe luck was with me, but I survived an orbital that I couldn't avoid as I backed into a light pole and had to ride it out.
And it is amusing to see other blaster tanks overheat thier gun and I"m only down to half armor. They start to run.......
µòൢ¦n+ÜtƒÑs++tƒÑs+¦n+îtÖ+µê¦S+쵫ån+¢S+ìtƒÑs++FÇîtƒÑs+¦n+îS+Çsï¥S+ÇF¦án+¢S+ìtƒÑs++n+îS+ìtƒÑs+¦n+ŵê¦s+൫åpÇé
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
1031
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Posted - 2014.06.28 18:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aardicus wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Aardicus wrote:True Adamance wrote:Tebu Gan wrote: That's what your trigger finger is for. And it seems like if you are going for kills with blasters it's almost gotta be a PRO turret. Silly advanced just doesn't seem to cut it for some reason.
Eh I thought it was hard to hit infantry with a Blaster.... then deployed my 8000 Armour no rep tank. 21/1 and that 1 was after I recalled and went infantry for to kill a sniper with my scrambler. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/826/5175Been messin around with this build lately, similar to your 8000 armor, but with a lil bit of repping. It is surprisingly not horrible, it stands toe to toe with lesser tier rails fairly well. And with the new armor composition skill it isn't entirely impossible to maneuver a bit as well. Interesting, a complex light reps almost as much as a basic heavy. So dropping down to a Light complex, means you only lose 5 over the basic heavy and you gain quite a bit of PG/CPU out of the deal. This is certainly a stand and deliver fit, that allows for limited in battle repping but is more about taking the beating and repping outside of combat. Solid fit, how's it fair against a gunnlogi particle cannon? Thing looks like it could take those out rather easily. Edit: And boo to that armor composition skill, how about shield tanks get a little loving from a new skill! Yup, complex light repper = basic heavy repper (give or take) with the aforementioned PG savings. Stand and Deliver, check. Repping outside combat, check. Most rails overheat trying to kill it, now I can't tell you thier fits but that is the general rule. And after a few hits I don't even need to keep moving back and forth as I can tell I'll kill them before they kill me after the first few hits and how hard they were. Also of note, I have survived being blindsided by a damage moded large missile turret many times, again not sure if they were proto or not, but normally it does not matter as a standard with damage mod will insta gib a maddy. RE scout stands slack jawed as hit 3 REs don't kill me all by themselves.... And maybe luck was with me, but I survived an orbital that I couldn't avoid as I backed into a light pole and had to ride it out. And it is amusing to see other blaster tanks overheat thier gun and I"m only down to half armor. They start to run.......
I'm predominantly a shield tanker myself, but I have found that stacking HP seems to be the way to go with tanks now, regardless of the type. For example, stacking extenders on my gunnlogi, has been incredibly effective against all other tanks that don't follow suit.
It's rather interesting to watch as a rail gun bangs away, barely denting my shields. Or watching as a flight of swarms is basically "reflected" off my shields (that's how little damage most do).
I do imagine though, that a maddie using the fit you describe with a blaster would be high effective against my fit here. But then again if I were using missiles, the favor would be in my hands. And if we both were to use rails, I imagine it would be pretty even between us.
New meta though is def stacking HP ftw.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Aardicus
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
57
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Posted - 2014.06.28 18:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Also to your original post about variety in turrets, i will agree. My fave blaster was the stabilized variant, even though the standard level one cost more CPU/PG than a 'normal' proto. And I favored the regulated (did i remember this correctly?) rail, the one with the faster rotation.
I miss those, particularly the stabilized blaster now that they have neutered the basic blasters.
µòൢ¦n+ÜtƒÑs++tƒÑs+¦n+îtÖ+µê¦S+쵫ån+¢S+ìtƒÑs++FÇîtƒÑs+¦n+îS+Çsï¥S+ÇF¦án+¢S+ìtƒÑs++n+îS+ìtƒÑs+¦n+ŵê¦s+൫åpÇé
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